[DAD]

Originally Posted by dansprint When they talk of Ethanol being used as a race fuel, are they talking about a fuel blend like E85? ie 85%ETHANOL 15%GASOLINE or are they talking a 100% ethanol or like a methyl alcohol 95%Ethanol 5%Methanol blend? 100% Ethanol is pure alcohol. The same type of alcohol that is found in all our alcoholic beverages. Surely they would have to denature the fuel somehow to stop people using it in the wrong way? Methylated Spirits (Methyl Alcohol) in a sense is denatured with 5% methanol, to stop the cheap alcohol being consumed. Ethanol is produced from fermenting grains and sugars. Methanol is produced from fermenting woods and therfore toxic for consumption

In the old days they would filter the denatured alcohol through a loaf of bread before they drank it, that worked most of the time sometimes it didn't. Methanol is actually made mostly through the reduction of coal gas , Ethanol is really a big waste of our food supply for motor fuel and helps inflate food cost that we could do without. Mine more coal!!!! miners and their families have to eat also.

Honest Dad himself

[mr nobody]

Originally Posted by DAD In the old days they would filter the denatured alcohol through a loaf of bread before they drank it, that worked most of the time sometimes it didn't. Methanol is actually made mostly through the reduction of coal gas , Ethanol is really a big waste of our food supply for motor fuel and helps inflate food cost that we could do without. Mine more coal!!!! miners and their families have to eat also. Honest Dad himself

Source for that claim?

[DAD]

Originally Posted by mr nobody source for that claim?

google ?

[DAD]

You know, Since USAC seems to like to experiment with the Silver Crown Division. Why not make electronic engine management systems optional for them as well as Ethanol fuel.

1. The technology is out there and easy to get.
2. They have decided to champion a fuel that does not lend itself to working well with mechanical injection.
3. Fuel millage will improve for both fuels.
4. The ethanol powered cars by running a lot closer to stoichiometry will be able to make more power and might have a chance to win over the methanol cars.
5. The methanol powered cars won't make much more power but their fuel millage would increase, and engine wear problems would improve.(No burned pistons-No fuel diluted oil)
6. Many unreliable mechanical parts would no longer be needed in the fuel and ignition systems.
7. The cars would be much more drivable.
8. The mechanic will no longer have to worry with changing weather conditions at the race track.
9. The mechanical injection would still be competitive but when exposed to the advantages of electronics over mechanical the owners would probably soon switch over to the electronics on their own.
10. When the other divisions of USAC see the advantage of electronics over mechanical engine management they would probably petition USAC to have their rules changed to allow electronic engine management systems also.

Honest Dad himself

[SC90]

Originally Posted by DAD You know, Since USAC seems to like to experiment with the Silver Crown Division. Why not make electronic engine management systems optional for them as well as Ethanol fuel. 1. The technology is out there and easy to get. 2. They have decided to champion a fuel that does not lend itself to working well with mechanical injection. 3. Fuel millage will improve for both fuels. 4. The ethanol powered cars by running a lot closer to stoichiometry will be able to make more power and might have a chance to win over the methanol cars. 5. The methanol powered cars won't make much more power but their fuel millage would increase, and engine wear problems would improve.(No burned pistons-No fuel diluted oil) 6. Many unreliable mechanical parts would no longer be needed in the fuel and ignition systems. 7. The cars would be much more drivable. 8. The mechanic will no longer have to worry with changing weather conditions at the race track. 9. The mechanical injection would still be competitive but when exposed to the advantages of electronics over mechanical the owners would probably soon switch over to the electronics on their own. 10. When the other divisions of USAC see the advantage of electronics over mechanical engine management they would probably petition USAC to have their rules changed to allow electronic engine management systems also. Honest Dad himself

Dad,

I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny, or serious.

The last thing the Silver Crown division needs at this time are more changes. The true afficianados of the sport love the division because of its tradition. This is the series that dates back to the 60's with AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti. This is the series that became a springboard for many drivers in NASCAR. This is the series that is the ultimate test of drivers -- a Silver Crown race won't be won by a driver who is only "balls to the wall" and doesn't use their head and manage their tires. It won't be won by the pit crew. When I watch NASCAR and IndyCar, I always wonder if the race is won by the team with the fastest driver or the fastest pit crew. The fastest car on the track often doesn't win because of a slow pit stop. Sure, there has to be great preparation back at the garage, but once the team pushes off the car, it's the driver who is in control of the outcome of the race. This isn't a series that is based on engineering -- which team has the most money and talent for technological engineering. Formula One already covers that quite well.

Driving a Silver Crown car isn't easy -- it isn't meant to be, and we don't want it to be easy. We don't want to watch a race where the car is more important than the driver. This series takes us back to an era when the driver was the commander of the cockpit -- not the $$ spent, not the technological excellence, and not the speed of the crew during pit stops. I'm glad we have safety innovations like roll cages and helmets now, but bring back the old roadsters of the 60's and the drivers who knew what it take to tame one of those beasts (no pun intended).

Sharon
Silver Crown #90

[midget96]

I see plenty of posts, concerning the big cars, about they will be no more when the current owners are gone. I really hope not !!!! But with that said I took my 16 year old to the 4 crown and while the midget and sprints are cool my son really feel in love with these cars. He said one of these days he will be running one of those. He got I grinned and said I hope so !!!

signed a proud dad !!!

[mr nobody]

Originally Posted by DAD google ?

So you post a statement and can't support it when asked to? Interesting

[DAD]

Originally Posted by SC90 Dad, I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny, or serious. The last thing the Silver Crown division needs at this time are more changes. The true afficianados of the sport love the division because of its tradition. This is the series that dates back to the 60's with AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti. This is the series that became a springboard for many drivers in NASCAR. This is the series that is the ultimate test of drivers -- a Silver Crown race won't be won by a driver who is only "balls to the wall" and doesn't use their head and manage their tires. It won't be won by the pit crew. When I watch NASCAR and IndyCar, I always wonder if the race is won by the team with the fastest driver or the fastest pit crew. The fastest car on the track often doesn't win because of a slow pit stop. Sure, there has to be great preparation back at the garage, but once the team pushes off the car, it's the driver who is in control of the outcome of the race. This isn't a series that is based on engineering -- which team has the most money and talent for technological engineering. Formula One already covers that quite well. Driving a Silver Crown car isn't easy -- it isn't meant to be, and we don't want it to be easy. We don't want to watch a race where the car is more important than the driver. This series takes us back to an era when the driver was the commander of the cockpit -- not the $$ spent, not the technological excellence, and not the speed of the crew during pit stops. I'm glad we have safety innovations like roll cages and helmets now, but bring back the old roadsters of the 60's and the drivers who knew what it take to tame one of those beasts (no pun intended). Sharon Silver Crown #90

Sharon

I'm serious. I kinda of liked them old Foyt 4 cam motors with the oil cooler hanging off of the roll bar, those were the days. Silver Crown or Champ cars are history they always will be. Any driver that can start off with a 700 pound fuel load hanging behind the rear axil and finish a race just about out of fuel and very very loose is one hell of a driver.
The cars are beautiful and most of them are owned and raced by people with a great deal of experience with race cars. You guys also don't do the weekly or twice weekly racing that you may have done in the past.

If the purse requires that you race with Ethanol for the big pay out why not do something to the car that will make it possible. I'm guessing about $4,500.00 would convert the engine over to an electronic management system and one large portion of your upkeep would be eliminated and you would have a much improved race car. Heck you can still use your old injector bodies, just machine them for the electronic injectors and throw all them hoses and valves and linckage away.

Do not make it a requirement just make it an option. It won't change how your race car looks but it will change how it works with ethanol.

I think maybe USAC experiments with you guys because you are the true jurneymen racers in the outfit and if anybody can make it work you can. Back in the 50's I raced 1/4 midgets with ET Morse's son and at that time ET owned 21 brands distillers in Frankfort Ky. He ran his USAC sprint on Pre tax stamp whiskey way back then, so it can be done, electronics would just make it a lot more simple.

Honest Dad himself

[DunaganRacing]

Ethanol: a waste of corn, waste of our $, and a waste of our tax dollars! Affects more than just corn prices, feed corn shortage causes feed to go up in turn raising meat prices. Ok, this is the deal with making Ethanol: it cost more to produce than gas, the government then has to give the ethanol plant a $1 per gallon as a "green" incentive. Even with a $1 off they still can't make it $1 cheaper than gas, when the government decides to quit and they have to raise it $1, who will buy it? Anyone with a bi-fuel car will tell you performance is noticeably less and fuel mileage is 15-30% less on E85. Gas is 40 cents more than E85 today, that's an 11% savings to lose 15-30%? People are catching on, Ethanol isn't the answer to our problems.

Posted via Mobile Device

[DAD]

Originally Posted by mr nobody So you post a statement and can't support it when asked to? Interesting

Nobody

I'm very sorry, If I were writing a scientific paper I would have included op.cits and ibids foot notes. What statement brought about your rancor? I can now Google just about anything, technology is truly great! You should give Google a try.

Honest Dad himself