The "Tulsa" thing I referred to was the MEETING the Minisprint/Lightning sprint guys had during an actual Chili Bowl to come up with a set of "acceptable" general rules. Forgot what actual year it was. It was interesting though because the first year they had the Chili Bowl, MARA was organizing it for Emmett. They invited the Mini-sprints knowing what was running around the Tulsa area at the time plus they weren't sure how many midgets would actually show up. Some of those cars had 1400cc-1500cc motor built to the max. I showed up with my injected, stock V-max along with 2-3 Tulsa guys. The Fraizers. Low and behold, after we got there....I was informed we couldn't race with the midgets.......Lanny didn't think we were "good enough" to run with them. ???? So they had an exibition and I loaded up and left. We didn't run with them in the Chili Bowl though.

My cars are purpose built cars by BLS. They are true Lightning Sprints, not conversions. You can see it on my web page www.openwheel44.com. Click around to find the series of shots of the car with out the body. They have evolved from the older Doemelts and then the Canaday cars. Completely safe and reliable. You don't have to run a sherman tank to be safe. Unfortunately, mine has been crash tested a couple of times and only damaged bolt on stuff. Front axle, radius rods and jacobs ladder. The hubs are Hyper, the wheels are Keizer and rear axle assembly is Hyper. Track tested and working fine. I understand they run the same stuff in their 1000cc sidewinder cars. Run a shell on the tail and 5 gallon military approved fuel cell...not a bladder system. 1 1/4" .095 wall 4130N frame. Anyway.....we thought outside the box and built these cars. Our thoughts........if our group stayed with the 925# rule, lets build a safe car a 230-235# driver can run and not give away so much weight.

The nice thing about my big driver we don't spend a lot of time going back and forth to the scales. My car is built by AJ Felker. It is a copy of his midget frame with the smaller top rail and suspentions picks ups and left side rail raised for wing and chain drive. I feel it is a very safe car and we have proof tested it several times. We could go down to 060 bottom rail and cut the thickness gauge of braces down but then I would not feel as safe with my kid driving it.

We are and always will be a hobby type sport. I don't think I would give up my day job to race them. Weight is everything in a race car.
What we are doing is setting a max drivers weight of about 200 lbs. If a guy is bigger than that he needs to find something with fenders to race.

Would any one like to test there frame rail thickness with my ultrasonic thickness tester? There are a few light weight frames out there and would you like no know before or after you flip?

It looks like the Face Book page National Lightning Sprint Rules that speared this debate has been taken down. Kind of a form of censorship!! So I guess it will carry on here. I know I tried to post several question related to the facts given to the decision on the weight penalty for ALKY cars. But they were not answered just deleted. The reason that was give on said FB page by one of the ILSS officers John Springer was that supposedly he has talked to Guhl, Rosson and Hentchcraft on what they felt was the increase in HP on alky kits. Supposedly they gave a number between 2-10 HP. Then ILSS group came up with a BTU to HP conversion from ALKY to Gas which is about 5 pounds. So let’s just say the retail people listed above are correct. OK then let’s break this down. How many conversion are at the low end and how many are at the high end of this range? I have personal experience with three motors and all comparisons fall in the 4-6 range.

Then if you’re doing a fair comparison shouldn’t you apply the same test to gas motors from year to year and manufacture to manufacture to see if they are down in HP? I know that is not realistic but it would be fair and the documentation is already on line from the manufactures. And it has about as much validity as this new rule. But after all if they are all about evening up the haves and have not’s should not that be a concern also?

My question to anyone on ILSS board is why in the world would you pick the high end of the range? Especially when you know there is a 10 HP variance given on any give motor to fall into?? Would it not make more since to split that difference at 5 HP if you’re truly concerned about fair racing!!

I know ILSS and AMSA can do what ever they want and I can do what I want. I don’t have to race with either group. And until the rest of the Lightning sprint world start to demonize alky car so much I won’t. Personal I think we need to start a campaign to show the benefits of methanol and maybe go the other direction.

BAN GAS AS UNSAFE!

. AMEN
Posted via Mobile Device

agreed!

BACK TO GRADE SCHOOL> CROSS MULTIPLY AND DIVIDE >
As*-ume weight of car and driver is 900 lbs
As*-ume Horspower of motor is 175 hp on gas
As*-ume Horspower of motor is 180 hp on methanol
How much would methanol car have to weigh to equal gasoline car?

175 hp on gas*******is to******* 900 lbs car weight

******************as***********************

180 hp on alky*******is to******** (X) unknown weight for alky car

180 times 900 equals 162000

162000 divided by 175 equals 925 lbs

This has been brought to you because of my 3rd grade teacher who did not give up on me. (Plug in any number you wish it always works.) I use this for everything like changing gears to rpm etc.

You know if she had used this problem in the first place I might have caught on a lot sooner.


DAD

---------- Post added at 9:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 8:52 AM ----------

Most Fire Marshals and indoor race promoters would rather you run methanol. Most indoor kart tracks use methanol. Most go karts groups say run methanol. Go figure?

i run a lightning sprint in winnipeg manitoba in the nlsa class. ( northern lightning sprint association). We are making a jump from the 750 motors to the 1000cc motors for the 2012 season. The 750s are nice but they do lack a little power. Are rules keep the sport relativily inexpensive. go to nlsprints.com for our clubs website. are rules are up there

The intent of the rule is being overlooked here. It is blatantly obvious that the alcohol weight rule is not intended to make it fair for the racers. The intent of rule is to create a perception. Apparently, low-budget prospective racers stay away from the class because they believe they can't be competitive based on their lack of funds. In an effort to market the class to these prospective racers it seems that the rule-makers desire to create a perception that they, the rule-makers, are on the side of the less fortunate.

ILSS Nov 6 board meeting quote, "This is to make it affordable for those new people who are interested in getting into our series at a medium $$$$$$ budget. Some new people are very interested in our series depending on this issue with the engines. With 2 new teams joing ILSS since our Oct 1st race things are lookin up for 2012."

Cite all the data you want, it doesn't matter. This is about the haves vs the have-nots.

The truth is a good yamaha r6 or kaw 636 will run off and hide from the best 750. When we ran 600 we had a guy try running a gsxr 750 with us (they are idenical on the outside) and we beat him regular he swore we were cheating. 1000cc is the best way to go. with or without methanol.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------

So most other forms of racing would be out also: Go Karts Open Wheeled modified etc. You guys have all bought in to the old wives tail about how expensive Methanol must be. A couple of years ago it was electronic injection was too expensive I heard you would have to spend thousands of dollars and you would beat the pants off those old fangled Hilbourn Injection systems out there that we all ran. Well I be Darned they did beat the pants off of those old mechanical injectors. But at the cost of a $300.00 power comander. Now guess what They are coming out with a new mechanical system that will beat the pants off of the electronic injectors for the small price of $4000.00. There will always be a place to spend your money racing and we are always going to be afraid of what is just over the horizon.

I would say the guys in Il. are going to eat better this winter (25 lbs better) and they don't want to be bothered with Methanol period. That is what they see is good for them, so be it. So much with national rules they are going to run "outlaw".

Glad I didnt throw my radiator and fan away. I would still like to run with them, they are pretty good people. By the way we were WAY over their min. weight for methanol (Ithink 1025) at their big race started 8th finished 4th and moving up at the finish.

like someone said its about the haves vs the have not. thats pretty much the truth. everyone on the bored is running gas and doesnt want to swtich over. theyve been struggling with car count avg around 12 and they just eliminated more cars. we bought a car to run with them and dont plan on switching to run with them for 2012. we now have 2 cars to run and are forming a series in illinois thats going to be non wing. if anyone running alcohol or gas is more then welcome to come. we will all be running the same weight no matter what you run.