A.M.S.A Rule

slide22 · 7/1/10, 12:31 AM

The rule states gasoline or alcohol fuel only. E85 is a mixture of 15% gasoline and 85% Ethyl Alcohol. The dispute is not whether E85 is an illegal fuel, it is the fact that he tried to use an alcohol fuel, and pass it off as gasoline, receiving the 70 lb weight break. There shouldn't be an argument or gray area here - E85 is NOT gasoline. Alcohol refers to any bio-fuel like methanol or ethanol. You can argue semantics of the rule all you want, but there is no chance in hell E85 is gasoline.

suzuki756 · 7/1/10, 10:22 AM

E85 is not pure ethanol .so how do you fix this.it is a gray area.it is 105 octane is that an advantage I run c12 it has ethanol in it to but not as much as e85 .I would run it if the weight was about 950 .
So now he either puts 70 lb in a car which is a safty concern or he goes back to gas which he will run race gas I am sure and he will still be spanking fast .we should want to keep cost down for everyone maybe this is one way cheap fuel without 3k conversion kit
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garry47 · 7/1/10, 12:10 PM

e85, ethanol, is an alcohol. end of story. i dont know how you still see a gray area here. sure, it is not 100% pure ethanol, but it is 85% ethanol, which is an alcohol. cars on alcohol fuel must weigh 970. i dont understand how you still see this as a gray area. it is ALCOHOL!!

suzuki756 · 7/1/10, 2:33 PM

I am putting it on my car in a few weeks I am already 950 so why not .I don't think I can do a alky conversion cheaper on a honda.I already have everthing but a pump
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slide22 · 7/1/10, 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzuki756

I am putting it on my car in a few weeks I am already 950 so why not .I don't think I can do a alky conversion cheaper on a honda.I already have everthing but a pump
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Hyper does alky conversions for $785.

http://hyperracing.com/content.asp?id=3067

badgersx · 7/1/10, 4:11 PM

IMHO I read the rule to be alchol was on weight and gas was another. However there lies the problem with the rule not being specific enough to encompass all options. What is the series definition of gas? There has been stated multiple other gas options that are considered to be legal. I choose to run c12 and it can produce an advantage over pump gas, as does the fuel in question. I agree 100% with the rule being to add the weight. I felt the rule "change" slash "clarification" change should have been stated prior to event. Either way good luck to everyone racing this weekend!

Jrp4554 · 7/1/10, 4:21 PM

I can't wait for next Friday so we can actually get back to racing.

Quantrill · 7/2/10, 4:30 PM

All this added weight does not make any since. I have multi dyno runs on three differant motors.

Motor#1
1996 GSXR 1127cc on Alky
Motor #2
2007 ZX-10 1000cc on Alky
Motor #3
2008 CBR-1000cc on GAS

All the motors were tested on the same dyno. Motor #1 & 2 in the same car with the same wheels.

All these motors are with in 6hp of each other????

Someone needs to do some real dyno work up there before adopting rules. From what I have seen personally all the motors listed above should be at the same weight rule.

Q

dctd05 · 7/3/10, 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quantrill

All this added weight does not make any since. I have multi dyno runs on three differant motors.

Motor#1
1996 GSXR 1127cc on Alky
Motor #2
2007 ZX-10 1000cc on Alky
Motor #3
2008 CBR-1000cc on GAS

All the motors were tested on the same dyno. Motor #1 & 2 in the same car with the same wheels.

All these motors are with in 6hp of each other????

Someone needs to do some real dyno work up there before adopting rules. From what I have seen personally all the motors listed above should be at the same weight rule.

Q

That is why it was such a big deal. You aren't making huge horsepower on alcohol you are just keeping the motors cool so they last through the feature. Why the AMSA decided to put 70 lbs on a car on alcohol is beyond me, but if you get a guy trying to bend the rule to keep his motor cool and not put the 70 lbs on his car is a big advantage. I do also agree that there are gases out there that can improve horsepower but you still have to keep these motors cool or they will not last through a feature.

suzuki756 · 7/6/10, 9:33 PM

I have checked no one has a setup for a 2008 Honda
If you know someone tell me
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7/1/10, 10:22 AM	#22
suzuki756 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 158	E85 is not pure ethanol .so how do you fix this.it is a gray area.it is 105 octane is that an advantage I run c12 it has ethanol in it to but not as much as e85 .I would run it if the weight was about 950 . So now he either puts 70 lb in a car which is a safty concern or he goes back to gas which he will run race gas I am sure and he will still be spanking fast .we should want to keep cost down for everyone maybe this is one way cheap fuel without 3k conversion kit Posted via Mobile Device

7/1/10, 12:10 PM	#23 Re: A.M.S.A Rule
garry47 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 58	e85, ethanol, is an alcohol. end of story. i dont know how you still see a gray area here. sure, it is not 100% pure ethanol, but it is 85% ethanol, which is an alcohol. cars on alcohol fuel must weigh 970. i dont understand how you still see this as a gray area. it is ALCOHOL!!

7/1/10, 2:33 PM	#24
suzuki756 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 158	I am putting it on my car in a few weeks I am already 950 so why not .I don't think I can do a alky conversion cheaper on a honda.I already have everthing but a pump Posted via Mobile Device

7/1/10, 4:11 PM	#26 Re: A.M.S.A Rule
badgersx Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 31	IMHO I read the rule to be alchol was on weight and gas was another. However there lies the problem with the rule not being specific enough to encompass all options. What is the series definition of gas? There has been stated multiple other gas options that are considered to be legal. I choose to run c12 and it can produce an advantage over pump gas, as does the fuel in question. I agree 100% with the rule being to add the weight. I felt the rule "change" slash "clarification" change should have been stated prior to event. Either way good luck to everyone racing this weekend!

7/1/10, 4:21 PM	#27 Re: A.M.S.A Rule
Jrp4554 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 882	I can't wait for next Friday so we can actually get back to racing.

7/2/10, 4:30 PM	#28 Re: A.M.S.A Rule
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 526	All this added weight does not make any since. I have multi dyno runs on three differant motors. Motor#1 1996 GSXR 1127cc on Alky Motor #2 2007 ZX-10 1000cc on Alky Motor #3 2008 CBR-1000cc on GAS All the motors were tested on the same dyno. Motor #1 & 2 in the same car with the same wheels. All these motors are with in 6hp of each other???? Someone needs to do some real dyno work up there before adopting rules. From what I have seen personally all the motors listed above should be at the same weight rule. Q

7/6/10, 9:33 PM	#30
suzuki756 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 158	I have checked no one has a setup for a 2008 Honda If you know someone tell me Posted via Mobile Device