I don't know Andy...you guys last year in Florida running with USAC with only 7 cars put on 1 hell'va show!!!!!!!!

Wayne & Andy

Sometimes it is best not to write some rules, If you don't have teeth to enforce the rule it means nothing and only tends to "P" people off.. Boy did them scales of Jerry's bite.

If them guys with the hot rods don't adapt they will go out of business, and maybe just maybe be replaced by a smarter group.

We by being open wheel are at a disadvantage. It takes a special person to go open wheel racing. It is in itself the purest and unfortunately still the most dangerous form of auto racing out there.

If one wants to be the best of the best start out in open wheels, that is where one first leans respect both for the cars and fellow racers. Like old PAPA OUTLAW would say 3 abreast and hauling as+ and never once touching one another. To me that is cool.

Florida has chosen to change engine packages, not a bad idea when you consider how many Ecotecs are laying around in junk yards, probably enough for 100 years of racing if we wished.

Most of the rest of us have stayed faithful to the motorcycle engines even though their numbers are dwindling. What we have to ask ourselves is do we stay with our engine choice either stock or hot-rod or do we start making a switch to something more available. And if so switch, how do we do it so as not to shoot ourselves in the foot.

That is where people "LIKE" Ted Johnson or Big Bill France or Emmett Hahn of Tulsa come in and take over and get the job done.

I love COMPETITION!!

Honest Dad himself

Dad you hit the nail on the head...If you don't have teeth to enforce the rule.... oh what we are doing is trying to open avenues for racers... I just put ring and bearings in my ford midget and total price on rebuild was $168.00 for all parts...then went out and won tlast Sat. night....will never ever do away with the motorcycle engine....it all about choice

Way back in the 80's the old Honda 750 or Kawasaki 900 was hi tec. All Detroit had was the "Iron Duke, Vega, and Pinto motor. Those motors were so undeveloped the racers chose the VW as the motor of choice for midget racing back then. However when they got done with it there was not a VW part to be found in it. Pretty expensive motor to race at the time.

Then somebody said that little Pinto is overhead cam that would really be hi tec. Along came Esslinger and it is still the motor of choice to race midgets with today. Kinda of pricy for a new one of them too.

All through the 80's 90's and early 2000's the motorcycle were light years ahead of Detroit. With a booming economy quite a few of these motors got to the wrecking yards and into small car racers hands.

Ford came along with the z tec "Focus" motor. 4 valve overhead cam and it found it place in a midget and racing. GM not to be outdone comes up with the eco tect.

These two motors are approaching the HP per cubic inch of the cycle motor and do pretty good in a race car. They might be where we end up. When motorcycle motors are inexpensive and plentiful they are great, however we are approaching a time when there may not be enough of them to go around.

Honest Dad himself

They are still plentiful and great... Last I checked any 1000 that is commonly used can be bought for $900-$2500.
Other than hornets what else can you race for that kind of price. Not mention if you can purchase just the engine without the harness and injection its cheaper yet. While working with Engler I've had the same injection components and ignition on 3 different generations of YFZ engines with very little change.
Before we ran alky we had a stock r1 last for 76 races and we retired it. It won a championship that year in the 1x car. It was also still strong! And wait it ran on gas!

The Japanese engines with stock chrome cylinders, with stock internals, ran at the manufactures suggested rpm will last.
As mark says "PERIOD"
Like anything there's always lemons but they are uncommon.

I know fuel is a completely different argument and we will never be able to get guys to go stock on gas because of the safety aspect.

IT TOOK YOU FOREVER TO GET THAT "Engler" plug in there.

I would work on the Alky as the only allowed fuel, not for the safety factor or the engine life factor but for the tec-ability factor of it.

If your Methanol does not check out then if you like you could have the race director send your fuel off for a nominal charge, I think the TQ guys set the price at $500.00 to a lab and have them certify it, I would let water go by and call it legal but that would take a chemist to determin.

Bloomington opened a can of worms with the tire dopeing rule. If you send a guys gasoline off and find out 2 weeks later it has been doctored, he is mad, the other racers are mad and you end up with 30,000 hits on IOW with pro's and con's about an already dumb rule. There is as much or more power in the fuel can than you can generate with a set of high compression pistons.

It is impossible to tec gasoline as God did not create any of it equal. Methanol on the other hand should always tec the same, it would be an easy pass or fail test.

If the equipment is at the race track, the racers should check their fuel before the race, because a little water looks just like a little nitro.

Honest Dad himself

What can I say, in 5 years I will have saved 3-4k?
How much you saved with that dry sump? Hehe

Andy

In favor of the EcoTec. I can go to any wrecking yard and buy a low mile eco-tec for $500.00. It is the cheapest thing of the entire engine package. That Engler injection will stay with me probably forever, as well as the ign module or ECM if I decide for electronic injection. The headers can be repaired if needed. If we decided on big valves springs and cams most of them should also be reusable.

If piston, rods and cranks remain stock best not get too carried away with "VE". Looks like the ecotec midgets and us both run real close together and only spotting them 1000cc's.

Can you imagine a 2 min gear change?

Bet old Mark is spinning like a top over his thread!

Honest Dad himself

Mark and I have debated the tech procedure of gasoline. Yes........a can of worms. Maybe not a feasible solution but we thought about simply stating......buy your gas at a designated gas station close to the track. We could test and compare somewhat then. If you think your gas is close to what that tests.......knock yourself out and good luck. At this point...........we don't have very many "gas guys" racing around here so it hasn't been a big issue............yet. Hoping this meeting will get us all some "direction" on how to deal with this issue also.

Not a tire expert but..................does soaking or treating a spec tire soften it significantly? If so, how much is a good rule of thumb a Hoosier SP2 can be brought down to as compared to it's starting point???? My Go Kart buddy has been trying to enlighten me somewhat to all the crap that goes on with tire treatments. All this info makes my brain hurt. If I has educated me on one thing..........it's Go Kart guys that run asphalt usually have one hell of a tire bill.

Oh.........I see where you can buy those race ready Ecotecs, race ready all day for $10,000. Couple that with a quick change/torquetube/ball setup and start looking at the overall price then. Plus.......push trucks. The promoters we have dealt with preferred race cars with starters. Ecotec style cars defeat that purpose. To be clear.....I have nothing against Ecotecs. I wish them better luck than the Ford Focus deal went though.........

If you are going to go that route.........open up your rules to 1400+cc motors and compensate with weight if you have to.

If you have a good driver and set up guy, it will be faster, but with a good driver and set up guy you will be quick anyhow. I would think it more like a placebo, but placebos work also.

I would recommend a cheap hard right rear and a durometer. If they want to spend $100.00 a gallon on dope and it does not check soft let them buy it.

We tried a doped tire once. AJ was going to run it at the Chili Bowl and decided against it. It set for for about 4 months and we tried it for the first race at Bloomington of all places. That thing was slicker tire and in 10 laps into the main it was slick, poor choice.

Honest Dad himself