[DAD]

Originally Posted by TQ29m Which side of "logic", or "tradition" does this fit into, BS and BW, Bull$hit, and Bailing wire might bring the cost down, but if they build it, and one guy has the money, you can bet he'll have one, and then another, and another, and if it's hot, it won't be long till there'll be less and less National Midgets running, I would assume that's where they'll end up. JMHO Bob

Up until the last 20 years or so "MIDGETS" had a lot of tradition and a lot of ingenuity.

I can remember: Harley Davidson's, Evinrude's, Ford V8 60s, vest pocket V8 Buick's, Iron Duke Chevy's, Ford Falcon's, Porsche's, Volkswagon's, V6 Chevy's just to name a few.

Rules are now designed to be "exclusive" instead of "inclusive". Many organizations write rule to exclude what they are not accustomed to or what they feel will upset the status quo or might cause harm to a favored vendor. These policy's costs the racer money.

Granted a few $35,000.00 motors would be chump change for a national traveling team when figured in with the cost of haulers, fuel for the haulers, tires, repair parts, race car fuel, personal salary's and lodging. But the local racers are based off of the same engines and 35 grand is a lot of money for them to come up with.

Honest Dad himself

[Roy Bleckert]

We can have competitive engines for 10k or less

2.5 liter stock block ,heads & crank EFI

I do not think the high $ engines will be out run with this

BCRA all ready allows it

http://www.bcraracing.com/wp-content...idgetRules.pdf

[Revolution Racing]

So let me get this straight - all I need to do is take an ancient two valve design, pour up some fresh castings, install some state of the art components, and I've got me a "new" Midget engine?

Only in this goofy sport could the age of the metal, and not the age of the design, dictate what is "new".

LMAO,

[17racer]

What is the goal here guys? Affordible engines or national engines? They are not the same and they dont do too well together once you get to a bigger track. Why keep trying to race them together???? falling car counts?
It seems like RRE cant get rules to make their program competative enough, yet Stanton gets to piggy back on the exception that was granted to Esslinger???? Its simply money that talks. And Lobbying. Back a couple years ago.... somehow Fontana was granted inches to get to 174, yet the rhino 200 ci motor, sealed, at half the cost, was not allowed or worse, wasnt bought ???
Maybe RRE should be granted additional inches if they want to compete on the national midget level. Submit a reasonible design. It seems the reluctance is in that you could hypothetically show up with a 4 valve motor at
500+ hp. Lets say that happens and they produce 8 of them per year and one team gets them all??? how are we any better off? Any one see a problem here??? remind anyone of the Toyota deal??
There needs to be a reasonibly level playing field for National midgets and for regional midgets.....

[wisco95]

the exception was that you keep the bore spread the pinto has. The mopar isnt close.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by wisco95 the exception was that you keep the bore spread the pinto has. The mopar isnt close.

Could we agree that both Esslinger and Stanton motors are purpose built race motors. Can any one think of a stock Ford or Chrysler part in either one of them.

They have created an almost bullet proof bottom end and are only restricted by an antique head design. In the 70's single overhead was cutting edge technology, today not so much.

Even Detroit has moved on to newer better designs. In the 70's if you told someone you were driving a car with over 200,000 miles on it and had never been inside the motor you would be called a liar, today 200,000 is the norm rather than the exception.

Head design and engine management have made giant strides in recent times but racers seem to be stuck in 1970's.

Before the invention of modern cnc machine tools, It would have been too expensive to design and build a DOHC 4 valve engine. Now they can design a new engine every few years or so. Why can't racers do the same thing. If not for these tools the Stanton motor would not exist today.

Not only are 4 valve heads much more efficient at delivering fuel and air to the cylinders. They also get by with much smaller valves and smaller valves can get by with much lighter valve springs. The task of replacing valve springs every few races would be eliminated. The task of setting valve clearance every race would be eliminated. Valves stuck in piston heads would be eliminated. In short this would make a low maintenance race motor. Considering that upkeep of the motor for a year is close to the cost of a new motor, this alone would bring the cost of racing down. Make a stock block and head rule and the cost would fall through the floor.

Honest Dad himself

[DonMoore10]

Honest Dad, what is the matter with you anyway? You make way too much sense.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Honest Dad, what is the matter with you anyway? You make way too much sense.

It all goes back to "MY DAD" I guess.

Honest Dad himself

[17racer]

So.... if the part of the rule that was circumvented was bore spacing then anyone coming in can circumvent it?
What kills lack of a level playing field, yet the pursuit of being different and unique set midget racing apart from say spring cars dominated, for the most part by one form of engine. So if people are pissed off enough they dont like what the stanton motor represents, and feels it could obsolete their powerplant..... this process didnt start yesterday. Its been the rule of the road, not the exception. Why dont the just remove all rules and have it wide open below 200 cubic inches?
Midget racing is not an affordible hobby or pursuit. Until it gets too expensive for the well off, and the people who make the rules, nothing is going to change..... until its over.
For the record, a one off design motor won at Duquoin, not readily accessible to regular teams. Think that motor had an advantage? And what about the v8 motorcycle based engine that came to the chili bowl from NZ with Pickens? Why did it get canned if rules arent adhered to???

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by 17racer For the record, a one off design motor won at Duquoin, not readily accessible to regular teams.

There has never been one engine of any kind ever checked at any POWRi show that I know of.......... What appears to be a Duck isn't always a Duck...........