[KOP]

Wasn't there, didn't see or witness anything. Got reports from friends and read postings. I just want to say something about the "harsh negativity" I was reading by some posters.

ASCOT PARK.......GONE! (1990)
MANZANITA........GONE! (2009)
STATE FAIR SPEEDWAY (OKC)....GONE (as of 2010)
TULSA SPEEDWAY......GONE! (2005)

You "harsh posting naysayers" want to add "THAT" to your list?

[Tim]

Originally Posted by KOP Wasn't there, didn't see or witness anything. Got reports from friends and read postings. I just want to say something about the "harsh negativity" I was reading by some posters. ASCOT PARK.......GONE! (1990) MANZANITA........GONE! (2009) STATE FAIR SPEEDWAY (OKC)....GONE (as of 2010) TULSA SPEEDWAY......GONE! (2005) You "harsh posting naysayers" want to add "THAT" to your list?

KOP,

From my perspective as a fan first, and a competitor second - No, I don't want THAT to go away. I want them to get better - to provide the fans with the level of entertainment that the fans pay for. I try to not be a "harsh posting naysayer". I try to look at things from, maybe, a different perspective, but I look at them from the fan's perspective, first. The question is, on Saturday night/Sunday morning, did the fans get their moneys' worth? Each fan will have to address this in their own minds, but for every one that posts their discontent, there are probably 5-10 that wont post - They just wont go back to THAT either. I want THAT to be the best show they can be, and there seems to be a lack of committment on someone's part to do just that.

I'll also note that, of those tracks you mentioned, I don't know that any of them closed up because they weren't providing a good show for the fans. They were closed for other, more political, reasons (location, proximity to neighborhoods, etc.)

Tim Simmons

[REH24]

Originally Posted by KOP Wasn't there, didn't see or witness anything. Got reports from friends and read postings. I just want to say something about the "harsh negativity" I was reading by some posters. ASCOT PARK.......GONE! (1990) MANZANITA........GONE! (2009) STATE FAIR SPEEDWAY (OKC)....GONE (as of 2010) TULSA SPEEDWAY......GONE! (2005) You "harsh posting naysayers" want to add "THAT" to your list?

I believe Ascot Park and Manzanita was close because the land was worth more as industrial parks than race tracks. Sometimes negativity might hurt tracks but it can also help if the promoter takes it as being constructive. Perfect example would be Eldora first race this year and all the negative posts, but then Tony and his personnel came back and made the track a lot better for the next race. It is better to get it out in the open and hope the promoter fixes problems than for the fans not to return for different reasons and then the tracks begin losing revenue.

REH

[cowboyhar69]

Constructive critizism is ok. I just think some ( and I am as guilty as others) get carried away and start bad mouthing people on here about everything from what they ate for breakfast to what kind of shoes they wear. We all need to stop and think for a minute...if that was the worst thing that happened to you all week...well, then you had a pretty good week. There are a number of people who post on this board of loved ones who are having dire health issues and others who mention they have loved ones overseas being shot at and in critical danger 24 hours a day. Maybe we all need to stop and take a look at how damn good we have it. Go visit some childrens hospital or a person in the hospital with a terminal illness and then maybe we can all realize how lucky we are. Like Mowerman said...Just chill out, visit with some friends at the track and think about how fortunate you are to be able to do the things you want. If we are going to get that upset about a race being delayed...well then maybe we should just stay home. If I was a promoter and had to listen to all the bitchin that is done I would say the heck with this and do something else.

Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

[bahawk]

Atomic Speedway in Knoxville, Tennessee is another example of a track that had land that was more valuable as a commercial site than a race track.

Forums like Indiana Open Wheel are great places to get information, good and bad, about what is going on when fans cannot attend a show. Constructive criticism, when fair, can be very beneficial. It can act like an open suggestion box.

To add my 2 cents to what REH25 said, there had been rumblings about Eldora from fans for several years about the lack of effort in track prep. April’s USAC show was the crack in the levee that hopefully will make good track prep and efficient shows the norm rather than the exception.

A good example of the unfair criticism on public forums is the beating Dave Rudisell took on another forum about the DTWC last year. Hard work and a great feature was not enough to silence the nay-sayers who are still mad that the race left West Virginia. They were not at the track; most had probably never been to a race outside of West Virginia, if to a race at all.

It is unfortunate when tracks cease to exist, but they are businesses as are sanctioning bodies. If they cannot or will not produce a quality product then they should adjust or fail. Fans should not have to blindly support racing because of its past, there should be people in place at tracks and sanctioning bodies ensuring quality racing now and into the future.

[KOP]

Originally Posted by REH24 I believe Ascot Park and Manzanita was close because the land was worth more as industrial parks than race tracks. Sometimes negativity might hurt tracks but it can also help if the promoter takes it as being constructive. Perfect example would be Eldora first race this year and all the negative posts, but then Tony and his personnel came back and made the track a lot better for the next race. It is better to get it out in the open and hope the promoter fixes problems than for the fans not to return for different reasons and then the tracks begin losing revenue. REH

Didnt mean to imply "why" a certain track closed. Was referencing the fact that if a track closes, its gone, no coming back. That hurts all of us more than bashing a place.

[Pushtruck]

For those of you who weren't there... and maybe for some of those who were. There were heavy rains several days up to race day. On race day it rained from 11:00 am until 6:00 pm, despite the weatherman calling for no rain on Saturday. There was even a light rain during the three heat races. With all the rain, I can't believe a race car was ever able to hit the track, let alone have a race.

Everyone there busted their humps to try to give the racers, fans and sponsors what they came for. A lot of the equipment they tried to put on the track couldn't move in the mud. Did any of you see Tommy Helfrich driving the tractor? They used a road grader, their big wheeled water truck, a bobcat, a tractor with a disc, anything they could get to move on the track. Over thirty fans came out to help wheel pack with 4x4's. Every driver brought their sprint car to the track. It's a 75 foot wide, half mile long racetrack. That's a lot of clay to run in!

They even risked fines and arrest by going five minutes beyond the curfew to complete the show. The sheriff stepped in and allowed them additional time to try to complete the show but halted the race after additional cautions and another red flag at 12:25 am. And we continue to have people complaining about the promoter, I guess you are right, maybe they should have thrown in the towel at noon like ol' DA then we could be hearing about how they didn't even try.

There were a lot of fans that came to the track hoping to see some racing... there were a lot of fans who waited and watched while every effort was made to get the track to a condition where race cars could even get on it...there were a lot of fans sitting under umbrellas during the night who saw hot laps, three heats and the majority of the feature race.

Now it's my turn to complain. Damn those promoters for not putting a dome over THAT. Let's get real. Thank you to the THAT promoters for giving it everything they had.

Joe

[Mud Packer]

Originally Posted by cowboyhar69 Constructive critizism is ok. I just think some ( and I am as guilty as others) get carried away and start bad mouthing people on here about everything from what they ate for breakfast to what kind of shoes they wear. We all need to stop and think for a minute...if that was the worst thing that happened to you all week...well, then you had a pretty good week. There are a number of people who post on this board of loved ones who are having dire health issues and others who mention they have loved ones overseas being shot at and in critical danger 24 hours a day. Maybe we all need to stop and take a look at how damn good we have it. Go visit some childrens hospital or a person in the hospital with a terminal illness and then maybe we can all realize how lucky we are. Like Mowerman said...Just chill out, visit with some friends at the track and think about how fortunate you are to be able to do the things you want. If we are going to get that upset about a race being delayed...well then maybe we should just stay home. If I was a promoter and had to listen to all the bitchin that is done I would say the heck with this and do something else. Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

All I will say about this is that Tim is absolutely correct. If you think you are having a bad week, take a trip to a children's hospital. Walk down the hallway and look into the rooms and see what many folks face DAILY. Maybe then you will get a different picture of what is really important in life.

[REH24]

Originally Posted by KOP Didnt mean to imply "why" a certain track closed. Was referencing the fact that if a track closes, its gone, no coming back. That hurts all of us more than bashing a place.

I understand, I was just mentioning the reason why some close. I agree with you about some bashing because it could keep a fan(s) who never been to that particular track from going there and missing out on good racing plus hurting the promoter. But also if it is "constructive criticism" and not "derogatory bashing" ,as has been seen on this and other boards, then it helps, providing the promoter does something to make improvements that may be needed.

REH

[sprinter25]

Originally Posted by KOP Didnt mean to imply "why" a certain track closed. Was referencing the fact that if a track closes, its gone, no coming back. That hurts all of us more than bashing a place.

Respectfully disagree, KOP.

A poorly run racetrack will close, as folks give up on late shows. poorly prepared tracks, lousy/high-priced concessions, and interminable intermissions. Those tracks/promoters deserve exactly what they get; if fans leave or abandon a track that's poorly run, then how does that hurt us.

But fans do have a right to complain, when justified. All that the availability of the internet and message boards have done is allow fans a voice that they did not have before. I don't know of any track that has closed down because of internet postings. If a promoter cares about his fans, he'll read those posts...and then do something about them. A satisfied fan will return, and then tell his friends. As noted before, most dissatisfied fans won't take the time to complain..they'll just never return.

If a fan never complains about a poorly run track, well, how will a promoter know that he's doing a bad job? Eventually, declining attendance will force to track to go dark. But a bad promoter will blame everything else before looking in the mirror and doing a little self-evaluation.

There are too many other entertainment options available to folks that a poorly run race track is less of an option than ever before. Is the loss of a race track a bad thing? Maybe.... but there are some that deserve to close. Personnally, I hope that Dave Rudisell and others like him continue to read what's posted here and elsewhere.

And business is just that - business...Manzanita and Ascot both closed for economic reasons, not because fans complained......

But is it a bad thing when a poorly run track shuts down? A poorly run track will get my money...once.