Two Midget Rule Changes

DonMoore10 · 1/23/08, 12:46 PM

There are two midget rule changes that I would like to see happen:

1. MULTIPLE DRIVERS WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF POINTS under the passing points system. This is a problem, especially with high car counts. For example, a driver that participates in the first heat is awarded preference over another driver with the same number of points in the second heat and so on and so on down the line to the last heat race. Thus, the driver in the first heat race could be in the top six in points while a driver with the same number of points in the last heat race would end up in the semi and potentially in the back of the feature. This situation occured several times last season and during midget week when 5 or 6 drivers had the same number of points. My point is that every driver should have an equal chance at the feature regardless of how many tie for a certain number of points. Let's not penalize the guys who are in the higher number heat races.

My solution would be this: If three ( or a number agreed upon) or more drivers tie with the same number of points, race officials would redraw positions for those drivers, similar to some orgs redrawing for the top 6-12 positions for the feature. No need to bring drivers to the trailer to accomplish this. The officials would do it and post the results.

2. RACE DRIVER BULLIES spinning another driver(s) to gain a victory, transfer position or more points. The race car bully is awarded the position and the victim is sent to the tail. This makes no sense whatsoever!!!!!!! It might be entertaining for the audience but is totally unfair. The race car bully fouls and is rewarded. :thumbsdown: On the other hand, if a driver touches the cone on the restart, the race is halted and the driver is sent to the tail.

My solution would be this: When a "spin and win" situation occurs, the race is halted and the race car bully and the victim return to their previous position. The race steward informs the race car bully via radio that he will be done for the night if it happens again. My point being that if the race car bully knows he's not going to advance and could potentially take himself out for the night, this type of bully behavior will cease to happen.

Kirk Spridgeon · 1/23/08, 12:48 PM

If you make a passing point system that doesn't create a million ties, then you wouldn't have to worry about breaking them!
It wouldn't be very difficult...

DonMoore10 · 1/23/08, 12:50 PM

I agree, but that hasn't happened yet!!

Don Moore

Sandy Lowe · 1/23/08, 1:01 PM

Kirk,

Do you have any suggestions on how to make a system without so many ties? Do you think it should be a difference of 3 points per finish position and 1.4 points (instead of 1.5 points) per position improved? What do you think would work?

Florence Speedway uses a difference of 4 points per finish position and 1.76 points per position improved.

Sandy

Kirk Spridgeon · 1/23/08, 1:18 PM

I'm not sure what people would see as more valuable between the heat finishes or the amount of positions gained, but it would be so easy to get rid of the ties and definitely get rid of decimals.
I think I would use something like nine points between positions and four points per position gained.

DonMoore10 · 1/23/08, 2:32 PM

IMO, you still need to give everybody in the heat a chance to make the feature and not penalize the guys in the front or back or which heat race they are in because of a bad draw. My system eliminates that and puts the draw or chance back into it. If the draw was good enough for the heat race lineups, it seems it would be good enough to break the ties. I don't see any other way to do it unless you come up with another point system that doesn't penalize people because of what heat race ur in. Right now, the drivers in the last heat races are penalized before they even get on the track.

Kirk Spridgeon · 1/23/08, 2:51 PM

If you don't have ties, then what is the problem for guys in later heats?

If you start up front, you need to run first or second. If you start in the back, you know that you need to get to third or at least fourth. If you don't do what you need to do, then you don't deserve the "chance" to get a spot. Get in through the B.

JakeCroxton · 1/23/08, 3:04 PM

The World Dirt Racing League (Tin Tops from Kansas City, Iowa, etc.) used a passing points factor of 1.76 with four-point drops (59-55-51...etc.). The only ties that existed were drivers that had the exact same performance (i.e. fourth to first in multiple heats).

riskybrisky5 · 1/23/08, 4:08 PM

I always thought ties should be determined by who passed the most cars. For example if 33 points to win and 3 points between each position and 11/2 points per pass. If a guy starts 5th and runs third he would have 30 points. Another guy starts on pole and runs 2cnd he has 30 points. To break the tie you look at passing points not the heat they were in. So the guy that started 5th and runs 3rd gets the better starting spot. If 5 are tied same sytstem. If have same passing points then revert to heats or flip a coin. Just my opinion reward the passing.:thumb:

Crankin · 1/23/08, 5:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMoore10

There are two midget rule changes that I would like to see happen:

2. RACE DRIVER BULLIES spinning another driver(s) to gain a victory, transfer position or more points. The race car bully is awarded the position and the victim is sent to the tail. This makes no sense whatsoever!!!!!!! It might be entertaining for the audience but is totally unfair. The race car bully fouls and is rewarded. :thumbsdown: On the other hand, if a driver touches the cone on the restart, the race is halted and the driver is sent to the tail.

My solution would be this: When a "spin and win" situation occurs, the race is halted and the race car bully and the victim return to their previous position. The race steward informs the race car bully via radio that he will be done for the night if it happens again. My point being that if the race car bully knows he's not going to advance and could potentially take himself out for the night, this type of bully behavior will cease to happen.

Not saying that this is the answer, it's just something I observed last year during a weekly "tin top" race at Grundy County.
Since it can be a subjective call, open to many different opinions as to what actually happened (i.e.: I didn't spin him out, he just stopped in the corner and I had nowhere else to go). They sent both parties to the tail. The spinner, and the "bully". This wasn't just a once in while call, it happened all night, in every race, EVERY time. These guys knew the rule and accepted it, even when (in my opinion) you could tell it was truly accidental.
Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there. For Stock Cars on that tight little track, I thought the rule worked great.

1/23/08, 12:46 PM	#1 Two Midget Rule Changes
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	There are two midget rule changes that I would like to see happen: 1. MULTIPLE DRIVERS WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF POINTS under the passing points system. This is a problem, especially with high car counts. For example, a driver that participates in the first heat is awarded preference over another driver with the same number of points in the second heat and so on and so on down the line to the last heat race. Thus, the driver in the first heat race could be in the top six in points while a driver with the same number of points in the last heat race would end up in the semi and potentially in the back of the feature. This situation occured several times last season and during midget week when 5 or 6 drivers had the same number of points. My point is that every driver should have an equal chance at the feature regardless of how many tie for a certain number of points. Let's not penalize the guys who are in the higher number heat races. My solution would be this: If three ( or a number agreed upon) or more drivers tie with the same number of points, race officials would redraw positions for those drivers, similar to some orgs redrawing for the top 6-12 positions for the feature. No need to bring drivers to the trailer to accomplish this. The officials would do it and post the results. 2. RACE DRIVER BULLIES spinning another driver(s) to gain a victory, transfer position or more points. The race car bully is awarded the position and the victim is sent to the tail. This makes no sense whatsoever!!!!!!! It might be entertaining for the audience but is totally unfair. The race car bully fouls and is rewarded. :thumbsdown: On the other hand, if a driver touches the cone on the restart, the race is halted and the driver is sent to the tail. My solution would be this: When a "spin and win" situation occurs, the race is halted and the race car bully and the victim return to their previous position. The race steward informs the race car bully via radio that he will be done for the night if it happens again. My point being that if the race car bully knows he's not going to advance and could potentially take himself out for the night, this type of bully behavior will cease to happen.

1/23/08, 12:48 PM	#2 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
Kirk Spridgeon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 802	If you make a passing point system that doesn't create a million ties, then you wouldn't have to worry about breaking them! It wouldn't be very difficult...

1/23/08, 12:50 PM	#3 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	I agree, but that hasn't happened yet!! Don Moore

1/23/08, 1:01 PM	#4 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
Sandy Lowe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,715	Kirk, Do you have any suggestions on how to make a system without so many ties? Do you think it should be a difference of 3 points per finish position and 1.4 points (instead of 1.5 points) per position improved? What do you think would work? Florence Speedway uses a difference of 4 points per finish position and 1.76 points per position improved. Sandy

1/23/08, 1:18 PM	#5 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
Kirk Spridgeon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 802	I'm not sure what people would see as more valuable between the heat finishes or the amount of positions gained, but it would be so easy to get rid of the ties and definitely get rid of decimals. I think I would use something like nine points between positions and four points per position gained.

1/23/08, 2:32 PM	#6 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	IMO, you still need to give everybody in the heat a chance to make the feature and not penalize the guys in the front or back or which heat race they are in because of a bad draw. My system eliminates that and puts the draw or chance back into it. If the draw was good enough for the heat race lineups, it seems it would be good enough to break the ties. I don't see any other way to do it unless you come up with another point system that doesn't penalize people because of what heat race ur in. Right now, the drivers in the last heat races are penalized before they even get on the track.

1/23/08, 2:51 PM	#7 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
Kirk Spridgeon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 802	If you don't have ties, then what is the problem for guys in later heats? If you start up front, you need to run first or second. If you start in the back, you know that you need to get to third or at least fourth. If you don't do what you need to do, then you don't deserve the "chance" to get a spot. Get in through the B.

1/23/08, 3:04 PM	#8 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
JakeCroxton Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 81	The World Dirt Racing League (Tin Tops from Kansas City, Iowa, etc.) used a passing points factor of 1.76 with four-point drops (59-55-51...etc.). The only ties that existed were drivers that had the exact same performance (i.e. fourth to first in multiple heats).

1/23/08, 4:08 PM	#9 Re: Two Midget Rule Changes
riskybrisky5 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 284	I always thought ties should be determined by who passed the most cars. For example if 33 points to win and 3 points between each position and 11/2 points per pass. If a guy starts 5th and runs third he would have 30 points. Another guy starts on pole and runs 2cnd he has 30 points. To break the tie you look at passing points not the heat they were in. So the guy that started 5th and runs 3rd gets the better starting spot. If 5 are tied same sytstem. If have same passing points then revert to heats or flip a coin. Just my opinion reward the passing.:thumb: