Data: Non vs. Wing

RedRacer07 · 5/1/25, 9:05 PM

Does anyone know of any actual data comparing feature lead changes (or total passes within features) between top series non-wing & winged sprint series. I suspect USAC & WoO would have the most data points as I believe they are the longest running of each discipline. It would also be interesting to compare each from tracks they have both held events on. I know it’s an age old discussion, but what’s the data say?

kendirt · 5/2/25, 9:22 AM

I saw it not that long ago, but I don't remember where. DIRTTRACKR maybe?

WoO and USAC aren't nearly as far off as people like to think.

A buddy and I talked about it at the time because we both saw it wherever it was posted. Our working theory was that nonwing gives the impression of more passing because there is likely to be more line choices.

flagboy55 · 5/4/25, 1:29 PM

Good topic guys. I agree that the actual feature lead changes are probably not very dissimilar. My brother and I were talking about it recently and we’re looking for reasons why we have so many relatively uncontested wins these days. Maybe it’s always been that way, but it sure seems more lately. Brady at Eldora and Kyle at Kokomo are two good examples. We still are lucky that 80% of our heat races are more interesting than wings, but features are becoming dubious .

Charles Nungester · 5/4/25, 3:03 PM

Don't get me wrong, I get it. These teams spend a fortune getting up and down the road and having at least two cars capable of winning in their stables. They want Straight up starts.

But as a fan. Call me spoiled as I grew up in a time the qualified field was inverted and even now USAC has the top six invert. Makes the heats exciting and the features interesting most times.

Gaines, Wilkerson, Millburn, Bob Kinser, Those guys were passing masters and won a ton but often started deep.

revjimk · 5/4/25, 5:23 PM

There's a guy who compiles incredible stats on sprint car, wing & traditional. I recall him posting lists about average starting positions for winners at various tracks on Hoseheads, but can't find it now. If you have the time to do some research, this is his website: SprintCarRatings.com

revjimk · 5/4/25, 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revjimk

There's a guy who compiles incredible stats on sprint cars, wing & traditional. I recall him posting lists about average starting positions for winners at various tracks on Hoseheads, but can't find it now. If you have the time to do some research, this is his website: SprintCarRatings.com

OK, if you go to "Stats" & scroll across to "Tracks", he has average starting position for winners at damn near all the tracks in the USA. Its not divided into "wing/nonwing", but if you go to Williams Grove, for example, you can assume most of the races are winged, Kokomo traditional, right?
Whoever wants to look it all up, have at it, & feel free to report back!

revjimk · 5/4/25, 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester

Don't get me wrong, I get it. These teams spend a fortune getting up and down the road and having at least two cars capable of winning in their stables. They want Straight up starts.

But as a fan. Call me spoiled as I grew up in a time the qualified field was inverted and even now USAC has the top six invert. Makes the heats exciting and the features interesting most times.

Gaines, Wilkerson, Millburn, Bob Kinser, Those guys were passing masters and won a ton but often started deep.

" I grew up in a time the qualified field was inverted"... me too
My first dirt track experience was at Eastside Speedway, Waynesboro, Va., modified coupes, AKA "Jalopies". Total inversion based on season points. Smokey Stover won 22 out of 24 races in 1962, almost always starting from the back! Crazy exciting... the whole crowd was either "Pro-Smokey" or "Anti-Smokey".... great fun!

revjimk · 5/4/25, 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revjimk

OK, if you go to "Stats" & scroll across to "Tracks", he has average starting position for winners at damn near all the tracks in the USA. Its not divided into "wing/nonwing", but if you go to Williams Grove, for example, you can assume most of the races are winged, Kokomo traditional, right?
Whoever wants to look it all up, have at it, & feel free to report back!

I was wrong. Actually it IS divided wing/nonwing

767 · 5/4/25, 10:08 PM

Depends on the types of tracks. Smaller the track, more passing. I.E. leaders are running in more lap traffic on the smaller tracks. Anymore no matter what your watching, the leader does not normally get ran down in clean air (unless there is a car problem or driver error). I agree, inverts also help with the passing.

BillV99 · 5/5/25, 9:28 AM

As revjimk said, my site has those totals per class. You can see the following stats for each year...
•Average Winning Start Position
•% Won from Front row
•% Won from Outside top 3 rows

Wing 410 Year-By-Year Stats
Wingless 410 Year-By-Year Stats

Also, you can see the "Average Winning Start Position" per series/track by going to "Stats -> Track Stats" or "Stats -> Series Stats"

SprintCarRatings.com
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