Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.

Jonr · 5/4/14, 9:24 PM

On Friday night, it was said that Zach Daum took a provisional to start the A-main. This would be the only way that he would have made the races since he did not complete his heat race or the B-main. (I don't remember him even making a lap in either race) On the same night, the winner of the first heat broke his motor on the last laps of the heat race and was a scratch for the A-main. Shouldn't POWRi have taken the first alternative out of the B-main. On Friday night's twitter results, it had the driver of the heat race in 23rd place. Now on the web site, they do not have him listed.

And if they grant provisionals, why was one not used last night at Wheatland?

I enjoyed watching Daum come up through the field on Friday, but I did not believe that POWRi did provisionals. Then to see no provisionals on Saturday night just makes the whole deal seem weird. If there are provisionals, they should be available to all.

Any ideas???

cmiracingvids · 5/4/14, 9:42 PM

Per their rules; provisionals are allowed for the top 10 in points only and only 2 times per season. If it's before June 1st, it reverts back to top 10 of last year's points standings. In the case of the alternate, the alternate should have been taken from the B main. And then Daum taking his provisional as well. If I was the alternate from the B, I would be looking into this...cause they BOTH should have been in the feature.

Jonr · 5/5/14, 6:00 PM

If they only give out provisionals to the top ten in points that would explain some of what I have seen. I only go to a few POWRi shows a year, and do not remember ever seeing a provisional used. However, if they are only available to the top ten in points, it would reduce the amount of times that they are used.

jjones752 · 5/5/14, 6:49 PM

Based on the results at powri.com, the 5th-place finisher in Heat 1 was the 17 of Derek Holmwood; his next appearance in the results is a 13th in the Main, so it looks like he was properly advanced.
Based on the A Main results, it appears that the top 6 from the B transferred to the A. 4 from the heats, 6 from the B equals 22; Zach Daum's provisional made for a total of 23 starters, so all seems as it should be. I've never heard of any association granting a provisional at the expense of someone who's earned a spot "legitimately", and a provisional is almost always earned in some fashion; past champion, points standings, etc., and not free for anyone who doesn't make the show. That's the "provision"; making room for someone who has proven they would've gotten in of their own accord most nights, and most likely someone who was a draw by dint of his talent and/or notoriety.

cmiracingvids · 5/5/14, 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjones752

Based on the results at powri.com, the 5th-place finisher in Heat 1 was the 17 of Derek Holmwood; his next appearance in the results is a 13th in the Main, so it looks like he was properly advanced.
Based on the A Main results, it appears that the top 6 from the B transferred to the A. 4 from the heats, 6 from the B equals 22; Zach Daum's provisional made for a total of 23 starters, so all seems as it should be. I've never heard of any association granting a provisional at the expense of someone who's earned a spot "legitimately", and a provisional is almost always earned in some fashion; past champion, points standings, etc., and not free for anyone who doesn't make the show. That's the "provision"; making room for someone who has proven they would've gotten in of their own accord most nights, and most likely someone who was a draw by dint of his talent and/or notoriety.

Sounds right to me. So in this case they took the 5th place finisher from the heat race since they knew before the B main that the winner of the heat had scratched. If they ran the B and THEN found out about the scratch they would have taken the alternate from the B. Kind of along the lines of if a driver was DQd for weight or something after the heat. They just act as if 2nd was 1st, 3rd was 2nd and so on.

Jonr · 5/6/14, 1:52 PM

Something still isn't right. Only 22 cars took the A-main including Daum. If you look at the POWRi results page, they give the 23rd position to JD Black, but his car had the blown motor. Maybe there was another scratch or maybe the alternative did not get ready, but it did not go as it should.

POWRi Lucas Oil National Midget Series

WHEN: Friday, May 2, 2014
WHERE: Valley Speedway
WHAT: MO Mid-State Midget Nationals

POWRi National Midgets
Valley Speedway
5.2.2014
Car Count: 29

Heat 1
Finish Car # - Driver
1 7JR - JD Black
2 5C - Colten Cottle
3 4M - Michelle Decker
4 22 - Andy Malpocker
5 17 - Derek Holmwood
6 21H - Ty Hulsey
7 14E - Eric Fenton
8 5R - Garrett Rider

Heat 2
Finish Car # - Driver
1 11C - Chett Gehrke
2 37 - Corey Weyant
3 2 - Seth Motsinger
4 57D - Daniel Robinson
5 79J - Jacob Patton
6 56X - Mark Chisholm
7 11A Andrew Felker

Heat 3
Finish Car # - Driver
1 56 - Darren Hagen
2 7 - Austin Brown
3 9P - Parker Price-Miller
4 5F - Rick Forbes
5 89JR - Todd McVay
6 35 - Matt Sherrell
7 23 - Hannah Adair

Heat 4
Finish Car # - Driver
1 25 - Jake Blackhurst
2 17W - Cole Wood
3 3N - Jake Neuman
4 39 - Spencer Bayston
5 7S - Pat Schudy
6 2B - Nathan Benson
7 5D - Zach Daum

Semi
Finish Car # - Driver
1 89JR - Todd McVay
2 56X - Mark Chisholm
3 5F - Rick Forbes
4 11A Andrew Felker
5 79J - Jacob Patton
6 2B - Nathan Benson
7 14E - Eric Fenton
8 21H - Ty Hulsey
9 7S - Pat Schudy
10 5R - Garrett Rider
11 35 - Matt Sherrell
12 23 - Hannah Adair
13 5D - Zach Daum

Feature
Finish Car # - Driver
1 56 - Darren Hagen
2 25 - Jake Blackhurst
3 5C - Colten Cottle
4 7 - Austin Brown
5 11C - Chett Gehrke
6 57D - Daniel Robinson
7 11A Andrew Felker
8 37 - Corey Weyant
9 2 - Seth Motsinger
10 39 - Spencer Bayston
11 2B - Nathan Benson
12 4M - Michelle Decker
13 17 - Derek Holmwood
14 3N - Jake Neuman
15 79J - Jacob Patton
16 5F - Rick Forbes
17 89JR - Todd McVay
18 56X - Mark Chisholm
19 5D - Zach Daum
20 22 - Andy Malpocker
21 9P - Parker Price-Miller
22 17W - Cole Wood
23 7JR - JD Black

jjones752 · 5/6/14, 3:25 PM

Well, if he scratched but was credited with a 'DNS', then Holmwood was moved up as a replacement?
That's all I got...

Points · 5/7/14, 3:25 AM

I see Forbes was 4th in his heat then ran 3rd in the B. I would guess that's throwing off the counts. Were passing points used taking the top 16 in passing points from the heats instead of top 4 in the heats to the A? Then I suppose Black earned enough points to qualify for the A. Does it pay to stay on the A list and get points and payout vs. scratching even if you don't think you can run? Wasn't there , just some possibilities I see.

Andrew S. Quinn · 5/7/14, 6:07 AM

Top 16 in passing points rather than top 4 in heats top 6 in the B-main make the feature.

Jonr · 5/7/14, 7:49 AM

Everything makes sense except why the alternative did not race. Perhaps the alternative was not ready or was not aware of the blown motor. However, it was pretty obvious that the engine was hurt. The only other factor in this equation is JD Black is a local driver and has supported Valley Speedway throughout the years.

I just hope that Valley did well enough on this race for them to come back again. The stands did not look good for a special show which is a shame because it was a good race night.

5/6/14, 3:25 PM	#7 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
jjones752 Senior Member Race Count This Year: 19 Race Count Last Year: 22 Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,259	Well, if he scratched but was credited with a 'DNS', then Holmwood was moved up as a replacement? That's all I got... __________________ Jim Jones Midwest Thunder Speed2 Midget #97

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5/4/14, 9:24 PM	#1 Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
Jonr Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,700	On Friday night, it was said that Zach Daum took a provisional to start the A-main. This would be the only way that he would have made the races since he did not complete his heat race or the B-main. (I don't remember him even making a lap in either race) On the same night, the winner of the first heat broke his motor on the last laps of the heat race and was a scratch for the A-main. Shouldn't POWRi have taken the first alternative out of the B-main. On Friday night's twitter results, it had the driver of the heat race in 23rd place. Now on the web site, they do not have him listed. And if they grant provisionals, why was one not used last night at Wheatland? I enjoyed watching Daum come up through the field on Friday, but I did not believe that POWRi did provisionals. Then to see no provisionals on Saturday night just makes the whole deal seem weird. If there are provisionals, they should be available to all. Any ideas???

5/4/14, 9:42 PM	#2 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
cmiracingvids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,324	Per their rules; provisionals are allowed for the top 10 in points only and only 2 times per season. If it's before June 1st, it reverts back to top 10 of last year's points standings. In the case of the alternate, the alternate should have been taken from the B main. And then Daum taking his provisional as well. If I was the alternate from the B, I would be looking into this...cause they BOTH should have been in the feature.

5/5/14, 6:00 PM	#3 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
Jonr Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,700	If they only give out provisionals to the top ten in points that would explain some of what I have seen. I only go to a few POWRi shows a year, and do not remember ever seeing a provisional used. However, if they are only available to the top ten in points, it would reduce the amount of times that they are used.

5/6/14, 1:52 PM	#6 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
Jonr Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,700	Something still isn't right. Only 22 cars took the A-main including Daum. If you look at the POWRi results page, they give the 23rd position to JD Black, but his car had the blown motor. Maybe there was another scratch or maybe the alternative did not get ready, but it did not go as it should. POWRi Lucas Oil National Midget Series WHEN: Friday, May 2, 2014 WHERE: Valley Speedway WHAT: MO Mid-State Midget Nationals POWRi National Midgets Valley Speedway 5.2.2014 Car Count: 29 Heat 1 Finish Car # - Driver 1 7JR - JD Black 2 5C - Colten Cottle 3 4M - Michelle Decker 4 22 - Andy Malpocker 5 17 - Derek Holmwood 6 21H - Ty Hulsey 7 14E - Eric Fenton 8 5R - Garrett Rider Heat 2 Finish Car # - Driver 1 11C - Chett Gehrke 2 37 - Corey Weyant 3 2 - Seth Motsinger 4 57D - Daniel Robinson 5 79J - Jacob Patton 6 56X - Mark Chisholm 7 11A Andrew Felker Heat 3 Finish Car # - Driver 1 56 - Darren Hagen 2 7 - Austin Brown 3 9P - Parker Price-Miller 4 5F - Rick Forbes 5 89JR - Todd McVay 6 35 - Matt Sherrell 7 23 - Hannah Adair Heat 4 Finish Car # - Driver 1 25 - Jake Blackhurst 2 17W - Cole Wood 3 3N - Jake Neuman 4 39 - Spencer Bayston 5 7S - Pat Schudy 6 2B - Nathan Benson 7 5D - Zach Daum Semi Finish Car # - Driver 1 89JR - Todd McVay 2 56X - Mark Chisholm 3 5F - Rick Forbes 4 11A Andrew Felker 5 79J - Jacob Patton 6 2B - Nathan Benson 7 14E - Eric Fenton 8 21H - Ty Hulsey 9 7S - Pat Schudy 10 5R - Garrett Rider 11 35 - Matt Sherrell 12 23 - Hannah Adair 13 5D - Zach Daum Feature Finish Car # - Driver 1 56 - Darren Hagen 2 25 - Jake Blackhurst 3 5C - Colten Cottle 4 7 - Austin Brown 5 11C - Chett Gehrke 6 57D - Daniel Robinson 7 11A Andrew Felker 8 37 - Corey Weyant 9 2 - Seth Motsinger 10 39 - Spencer Bayston 11 2B - Nathan Benson 12 4M - Michelle Decker 13 17 - Derek Holmwood 14 3N - Jake Neuman 15 79J - Jacob Patton 16 5F - Rick Forbes 17 89JR - Todd McVay 18 56X - Mark Chisholm 19 5D - Zach Daum 20 22 - Andy Malpocker 21 9P - Parker Price-Miller 22 17W - Cole Wood 23 7JR - JD Black

5/7/14, 3:25 AM	#8 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
Points Senior Member Race Count This Year: 14 Race Count Last Year: 24 Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 314	I see Forbes was 4th in his heat then ran 3rd in the B. I would guess that's throwing off the counts. Were passing points used taking the top 16 in passing points from the heats instead of top 4 in the heats to the A? Then I suppose Black earned enough points to qualify for the A. Does it pay to stay on the A list and get points and payout vs. scratching even if you don't think you can run? Wasn't there , just some possibilities I see.

5/7/14, 6:07 AM	#9 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
Andrew S. Quinn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,255	Top 16 in passing points rather than top 4 in heats top 6 in the B-main make the feature.

5/7/14, 7:49 AM	#10 Re: Questions about POWRi lineups- Provisionals.
Jonr Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,700	Everything makes sense except why the alternative did not race. Perhaps the alternative was not ready or was not aware of the blown motor. However, it was pretty obvious that the engine was hurt. The only other factor in this equation is JD Black is a local driver and has supported Valley Speedway throughout the years. I just hope that Valley did well enough on this race for them to come back again. The stands did not look good for a special show which is a shame because it was a good race night.