Well Ron, that might keep some out of it, like a moat, just gotta be something better than tires, even little ones are a problem, that berm like they put in at Tulsa works about as good as anything, at least it doesn't jump out at ya, and it don't move, I went to a Nascar race when they were still running in downtown Nashville, boy, has that been a while back, and they had Euclid tires around every light pole there, I don't know which would be worse, the pole or the tire, but they sure worked them over. We used to run a little track in Illinois, that had what looked like they had used gallon milk jugs as forms, and had filled them with cement, then buried all but about 2 in of them in the turns, kinda made a rumble strip with them, worked pretty good, just a real pain in the butt grading the turns. Bob!