what hurts sprintcar racing
 

In my opinion when people promote something as great racing that really isn't even close to being great they're doing the entire sport bad.
I'll use ascs again as a example. The racing is terrible, at least in every race I've tried to psych myself into watching. Yet the announcers must be watching and reporting on some fantasy not what is going on track wise. Green flag, instant train.
It blows my mind that folks have been brainwashed into believing that this is what sprintcars represent.
Its terrible **** racing at its finest. :11;

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

Sadly I know what you mean, though I shy away from mentioning it on boards as it usually invites bashing. Personally I think Sprints and Late models have become too splintered. To me both only need 2 variations, 410 as the top end elite and then some cheaper less powerful engine package(360 or 305), but keep purses on the entry level class minimal and more evenly spread like a racesaver plan.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

People that go to the races a lot don't depend on the announcer to tell them what kind of race they just saw or are seeing. Lineups, breaking news, etc. is what I depend on the announcer for. The announcer either works for the track or for the sanctioning body, so they're just doing what they're paid to do. Plus, once you get enough race cars under green, there are very few tracks that you can even hear what they're saying. But, this is coming from the perspective of someone who nearly all the racing I see, is live and in person.

Jerry

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

While we're on the subject of hyped-up false enthusiasm on the part of some talking head/PR types, I have to scratch my head whenever I read a press release about some guy who ran seventh in his heat, sixth in the B, and somehow still made the show and ran eleventh in the feature and his publicist makes it sound like the guy won Knoxville and Eldora on the same night. And press releases for this guy read basically the same week after week.

I understand the PR person is being paid to make the client look good and wants to keep the checks coming, but I don't see how some of these people can keep generating so much false enthusiasm endlessly.

Somewhere this probably ties into the false enthusiasm put out by the race callers mentioned above.

Edit - this is aimed more at press releases for individual drivers rather than sanctioning body or track PR flak.

Oh no not another ascs press release bashing thread. I for one can't wait to hear on Monday how joe blow from Texas dominated the c main. 😂😂😂

I actually witnessed something of the opposite of fake hype last night at Lincoln Speedway in Illinois. It was a MOWA show with the local track announcer and he did everything to hype up the numerous support classes and degrade the sprints. Granted it was a wreck fest last night, but the stands were full of sprint fans. I know it was sprint fans because if you drive by on their regular show on a Friday night there's about 16 people in the stands, last night it was pretty much full. To hear the announcer degrade the sprints like that can't look good for the casual fan or a first timer. Someone should have taken his mic away! I even heard another fan say has this guy ever even seen a sprintcar race before lol

Seems like a bad idea if you want to try to persuade those fans who came to the special show to come back for your weekly program. I basically heard the complete reverse of that here in Indiana several years ago - a weekly sprint track (since that's basically all we have) that was running a late model show and couldn't have been more disrespectful to the LM teams and fans.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

What hurts is when people go to a race and want to compare the class of car they see to something else. I have been to many winged car races (more than non wing given my location) and never once have I left saying that was a bad race and in my mind im comparing it to a non-wing race. If I go to a wing race I know 90% of the time I am going to see a freight train of cars at a high rate of speed, I can enjoy that style of racing. I know I if I am going to a non wing race I am going to see 3 or 4 wide, slide jobs, and more seat of your pants racing but at a slower speed (irrelevant, just noting diff. characteristics)... I would never say one is less exciting than the other by trying to compare the two, there is no comparison. But based on the characteristics I can judge a "good/bad winged car race" or a "good/bad non wing car" race...

I mean, most of us wouldnt compare indycar to F1 even though the cars look pretty much the same?

Honestly I've seen and been apart of as a driver, single file races with and without the Wing! Track conditions is what leads to good side by side Racing!

Don't watch a wing race and you will most likely see a good race. I'd rather watch paint dry than an ascs race. JMO.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

What hurts sprint car racing, is when a "fan" constantly rips apart one of the sub groups within the sport. "Winged racing sucks", "Pavement racing sucks", "anything outside of Indiana sucks". If you want "close racing" there are ALL KINDS of series wether it be road racing or oval track racing that produce. You just have to look for it. Oh and be open to the fact that it isn't a non wing sprint car an dirt in Indiana....
Why complain about it if it wasn't a "great show" on a particular night? Isn't being at the track better than being anywhere else? Jussayin....

It all beats being in jail right??!!

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

Negativity hurts sprint racing. People complaining will never convince their neighbor to spend their time and money to go to a race.

100 percent agree! And it's not just sprint cars, there are people who love late model racing and hate sprints and vice versa.

If the dirt racing community could ever totally get behind something, it would be the 2nd biggest thing in American motorsports behind Cup racing.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

Probably a myriad of things, but the divisive nature of race fans is pretty high up there and non-wing fans and late model fans are the worst offenders and it turns off what would be casual fans and creates a rivalry and conflict where there doesn't need to be one. Stuff like "who the hell would ever watch x series, it's awful and boring and blah blah blah." I could watch turtle racing and get enough enjoyment out of it to not complain that much.

Outside of that probably charging as much as a top level boxing ppv for live streams, features that end in sunlight, a lack of leadership at a national level from anyone who has an incentive to grow the sport, an aging demographic that doesn't attract many sponsors for teams, tracks, or sanctioning bodies, poor national level payouts, a sanctioning body with a stranglehold on the sport that pays their CEO $340,000 (roughly 10 times what they spend on marketing) and doesn't seem to have a clue how to attract new fans, break into mainstream recognition, or keep the talent that can draw in a wider audience.

And, as bad as I hate to say it, when you project yourself like a budget brand, people are going to look at you like a budget brand. Personally, I think non-wing sprints have the best racing in the country with some of the best talent, but when you have the top echelon of the sport posting pictures of someone holding a $5,000 check for winning Sprint Week, or for winning the non-wing portion of the Four Crown, it makes you look budget. And, in the mind of a casual fan, this matters a great deal when it comes to the perception of the sport and how exciting it is. Winged racing has tv contracts, winged racing has 50k and 100k crown jewel races, winged racing has brandable names that stick around, and so winged racing is perceived by the passerby as being the superior form of the sport.

I've always loved midgets but, being just shy of 30, I can remember a point in my youth where when the USAC midgets came to town basically everyone outside of very hardcore open wheel loyalists would collectively roll their eyes because of how the series was perceived at the time. "They're boring," "they flip way too much, there's a yellow every two laps," "the racing is awful," etc etc. Today pretty much everyone turns their heads for the midget portion and what has changed? The racing is the same. They get on their lids at a pretty equal rate. But, there are a bunch of drivers who are insanely loyal to the class, even after moving on and they have a crown jewel race that gets national tv coverage. Again, they still have the mantra that actually paying the drivers a fair share of the money they're bringing in is out of the question, but they're hitting a couple of the checkboxes and there is clearly a direct correlation between how big that single race gets, and how exciting the average person perceives the midgets to be.

Also, maybe what you're taking issue with is that different people have different tastes and it doesn't actually take being brainwashed for someone to get excited about the speed, grace, and almost hypnotic choreography of a winged sprint car race.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

This very loosely applies but I saw a shirt at a LM race lately, "Late Models: Because My Balls Weigh Too Much For A Sprint Car" Boy did it make me laugh out loud! Don't know that this sort of thing is REALLY hurting the sport in any way (like I said it actually made me chuckle), but at the same time it's kind of a slight on sprint cars and a loose example of the bashing towards other forms that permeates throughout dirt racing. A very intelligent follower of the sport obviously made that t-shirt.

I don't chew tobacco and have all my teeth therefore I prefer sprints over LM.

Honestly, what is hurting racing in general is that people are staying st home getting results on their phones and laptops! Want to save racing? Get your asses to the tracks in your area!

I think the biggest thing that hurts racing is bad racing. This comes from many factors not the least of which is dilution of a class by variations in rules, too many tracks running the same time, etc. Going back to elusive "casual fan" If they're casual to sprint car racing, they're probably hard core on another activity that takes up their time, fishing, golfing, whatever. If you think your going to turn them into a hard core race fan, versus what they have the most passion for, not unlike the passion we have for our sport, you likely aren't going to do it with a local sprint show with 14 cars, and a dozen support classes.
And the I don't buy the "get results on my phone" keeping anyone away, except maybe if it's a long drive with possible weather. And to everyone that says get to the track, I go whenever I can, no where else I'd rather be, but I have responsibilities to other people who depend on me to honor them. Now if any of you would like to pay my wage for a day, I'll take a day off and join you at the track! :32:

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

Man I am right there with you. It is absolutely insane how many PR posts one has to wade through on any message board or social media site these days...especially when 75% of them are stories about 15th place finishes. I get that more exposure helps gain and maintain sponsorship and fan following but once it becomes this watered down is it really doing anybody any good anymore?

And the way it has trickled down is even more mind boggling. Apparently now every 9 year old that races a gokart must have a full time PR team. I literally saw a press release for a 10 year old kid racing rookie restricted wing karts on a purely local level that read as follows... "After running 3rd in his heat race the inversion put Mason on the front row for the A main. Mason was able to jump to the lead on the start and maintained the lead until lap 3 when his engine blew. Despite the ill timed equipment failure, Mason recorded yet another top 5 finish."

People that were there saw 4 karts take the green and the leader grenade a motor and park 3 laps into a 15 lap main and subsequently get scored for last place, which happened to be 4th.

People that actually read the "story" but weren't there could have come away thinking "Man that kids talented, even with a blown engine he still finished in the top 5."

Again I wonder...when your press release is competing for readership with press releases about Mason and his hard fought top 5 how much good are you getting out of writing up your 12th place finish in an 18 car field?

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

Kinda reminds ya of some other "newsy" stuff these days! Bob

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

:8:Nominating this for post of year.:8:

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

You know what hurts racing not going to the tracks whatever kind they are! Go to the track and have some fun, eat some food, talk to your neighbor, make new friends, take your kids! Get a pit pass talk to the drivers and crews. Not doing any of those things is what hurts the sport. Because yes sometimes the racing is better than other times. It can't always be wine and roses. We can't always have our cake and eat it to. The track promoters, the track prep people, the drivers and there crews they are all human just like we are and make mistakes. It's just part of life. I can tell you this That a promoter, a track prep person, a driver or a crew member isn't saying I'm going to perform my job really crappy today so the races the fans get to see is really bad! They aren't saying that to themselves! Go To The Races Whatever Kind You Like Best And Have Fun! :):6::32:

_______________________________
Scott McCloskey (BunkHouse Gang)

I hope you are being sarcastic about this being post of the year. Total contradiction and makes no sense.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

I don't know. The original post was about over zealous announcers over hyping mediocre races. To even affect anyone, they have to be at the track to begin with, meaning they are interested.
I think the reasons are deeper, maybe lack of interest in cars generally, especially by younger generation? Very few people work on their on cars anymore, they're kind of boring, computer assisted, front wheel drive. A friend of mine's son just graduated HS. When he got his license at 16 she couldn't even get him interesting in driving. When we were that age, all we wanted to do was get out of the house & into a set of wheels... is it video games & cellphones?

many (not all) promoters don't promote anymore....as in...bring a friend to the track night...dollar dog nights...Big wheel races...anything to sell extra tickets to NEW faces...anything to get a new fan in the gate...keeping in mind you need to retain the familiar faces..

Racing has lots of competition with "other" activities. Gotta keep it interesting.

Social media is a promoters friend.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

Care to elaborate?

[QUOTE=ModernDayDrifter;478179]Care to elaborate?[/QUOTE

You say that you don't compare class of car than you bash on wing sprints. You say 90% of the time you are going to see a freight train racing. Then turnaround and say I know when you go to a non-wing show that you are going to see all these sliders so you just compared the two. That is a contradiction in IMO.

I like all of it. Regardless of non-wing, midget and wing. My home track is the burg and Love the place. They run non-wing 99% of the time.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

[quote=Wingman;478185]I chose not to be a school teacher because I have a problem with people not understanding basic reading comprehension. So I will break this down for you.

-Nowhere did I compare one vs. one. Which is the point I was making hurts racing.
-You point out that I consider 90% of winged racing to be freight trains, in a negative light. But completely walked around the part directly after where I said I can enjoy that type of racing as well.
-I say non wing racing has sliders, 3 or 4 wide racing, etc. Not as a dig on winged racing, but pointing out their characteristics.
-I clearly state that I am never going to judge one while I have the others characteristics in my mind.

Meaning: I know before hand what kind of racing I will be exposed to BEFORE I ever even go. I enjoy all types of racing because I do not dwell on the "Well if this was a non wing race there would be a lot more slide jobs, or alot more 3 wide racing." Nope, I understand what I will see and judge accordingly.

I know if I go to local asphalt track that the racing may be single file with long green flag runs. The dirt track 20 minutes down the road may not be that way. I am okay knowing this, and dont hold the other accountable. Its just understanding the difference, instead of finding flaws.

My 10 year old nephew gets it, do you?

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

I can sum it up by saying that no one appreciates Sprintcars more then me.
If the first sprint race I ever saw was a winged race I might have never watched another.
The advent of wings has also priced many a racer right out of the game. Run a nonwinger on a local bullring, do the same with a winged car. Guess which one in the long run costs way more to run.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

By the way personal attacks on a subject just show your ignorance. That much I get.
I don't have to taste poo to know it stinks. I have plenty more going in my life then to have to love all the crap racing they try to shove down my throat. If you love all racing your mind set is much more simple then mine, I envy you being so simple and easy to entertain.

Reading is fundamental.(remember that from the 70's). Like he said, each class delivers its own special elements and tendencies and if you understand this before you go to the track, you are less likely to be disappointed. Its the same with tracks, we have a facility in South Georgia called Golden Isles Speedway, it use to be a 5/8 mile, D-shaped, peanut oil based banked track. It was dirt but soaked it peanut oil and looked like asphalt and had lines painted on it with no walls except by the stands. Anyway this track had so much traction and was so big that the late models would top out at 175MPH down the back. No joke. The racing was mostly single file, but the velocity was impressive to see. I use to go there twice a year, but I understood what I was going to see before hand. Cherokee speedway in SC was similar in that it generated high top speeds(150+) and lots of tire wear over longer races, so being fast and patient was important to win. I can appreciate different type cars and tracks with different attributes too, without comparing apples to oranges, but I do prefer apples.

Get a 3 class national tour. Winged sprints, non wing sprints, and LM or Mods. I'm not talking about someone going out and doing this I'm thinking WoO, USAC, and UMP all collaborate to bring together a national tour. Run between 50-60 races. All purses are the same each night for each class. I personally prefer non wing racing. But if I heard of something like this coming to my area knowing each class pays say 10-15k to win I'd have my butt in a seat. I'd be willing to
Travel. I don't know that I've ever seen WoO and Usac on the same card. I've seen back to back nights but I personally don't go to the WoO portion of 4 crown. Why can't something like this be done. Make one huge brand.

The last 2 or 3 years Eldora has has the "let's race 2" weekend with both USA and WOO on the card both Friday and Saturday. It's wonderful! And maybe one of the best bargains in racing!

Eldora has the "let's race two" in May with the WoO and USAC sprints running both nights and it's one of my favorite weekends. I come from wing country in central Illinois. To me it's the best of both worlds with the best of the best of both disciplines. You get the high speeds of the outlaws and the slide job, side by side racing of USAC. To me it's all great. I loved the race at Kokomo for speedweek and was just as satisfied when I left fairbury after the MOWA/IRA show last Saturday. The buddy I took to it thought it was awesome and can't wait for more now! I'm glad I at least have a simple enough mind to enjoy both styles of sprints.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

I'll say this about Winged Sprint car racing don't gauge it all off of what you see from the touring series. The weekly PA scene is by far a much better product. I flat out will not attend any Winged Sprint car race that use's time trials to set the line up, that is often the worst example of it. The way the tracks here handicap the heats and feature never putting the top or fast cars up front. If the fast or top guy is going to win he's likely going to start in the 5th or 6th row. I've seen a lot of races won with passes in the last lap or two using this format. Now I'll admit it's not wingless sprint racing, but it's a heck of a lot better that sitting at home watching NASCAR, IndyCar or F1 on TV.

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Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

I agree wholeheartedly with this point. There are a few tracks in Indiana that fully embrace the promotional side of all of this. For instance:

- Joe Spiker at Lincoln Park Speedway does phenomenal job trying to get fans in the stands. First of all, he scheduled 30 or so dates for his track this season. When the season begins and I'm making my schedule for the season and have a free Saturday, I don't have to worry about whether LPS is running or not. I think that makes it more friendly for fans that aren't as involved on social media or tech-savvy. Joe schedules the "Little Feet Challenge" events where he gives away bikes to kids, does the cookout during ISW, etc.

- As for the special nights, I'd say the most involved with those has to be Lawrenceburg. Scout Night, Little League Night, Fire/EMS/Police Night, Veterans Night, etc. Hell, they even have CDL Night. Not sure why other tracks wouldn't do that kind of thing to get potential new fans in the stands. I haven't finished my MBA yet but sure seems like good business to me and it doesn't come at the price of alienating your current fan base. Additionally, Lawrenceburg like LPS is almost always running, if there's a big sprint race elsewhere they'll run LMs instead but that track is hardly ever dark on a Saturday nights.

It's also no secret that the vast majority of sprint car fans are older. When you look at the demographics of the crowd it's easy to see that the younger generations are underrepresented. Tracks need to find ways to get the younger kids in the stands. Maybe the chance of winning a brand new bike or getting to go with your entire Little League team is just the thing that will get a young child to the race just once, get him or her hooked, and have them begging their parents to go back moving forward.

Lastly, as Scooter pointed out, the internet and social media is definitely more of a friend than foe. With one post on Facebook or Twitter you're instantly letting thousands of people know about an event. Why would a track not take advantage of a free marketing tool that is used by more Americans than not?

I do want to point out that promoters or tracks that don't do these things aren't necessarily "hurting" sprint car racing but they certainly aren't helping it either.

Re: what hurts sprintcar racing
 

As I read this thread, I am discussing sprint car racing with my 21 year old daughter, as I type this. She has seen non-wing sprints literally from coast to coast, Ventura and Perris to Tampa and North Carolina and many points in between. Neither she or her 17 year old brother have any interest in auto racing. Me and my wife are the same age, late 50's, and are life long midget and sprint car folks. My wife's brother still races midgets in Colorado and has for over 30 years. All that being said, I just asked her what she thinks about sprint car racing, this was her answer..."Well I think about sitting in the stands for a long time, loud noise, always looking the wrong direction when a crash or spin out happens and everybody yells, and the hot dogs in the silver wrappers, thats what I think about when I hear Sprint car racing"......My house is full of auto racing stuff, and my kids simply are not interested, my wife's brother has a college age daughter who has less interest in racing than my kids, she has maybe seen her own father race 2 or 3 times in her life. So I guess young ones just don't get into the sport the way we did, I can't explain it.

Definitely a great bargain! Best of both worlds for a reasonable price. My wife and I have gone all 3 years and camped for both nights. It's got a permanent spot in our May calendar.