Where are the west coast cars
 

Opinions on why more guys from west coast do not compete in indiana sprintweek.purses,fuel for haulers at the moment are relatively cheap,cars are the same.everything is much like it was back in the 90s when you had like ten or so come back.what has changed.

It always makes me laugh when people ask why things aren't the same as they used to be.

Go drive around into small towns in Indiana or Illinois and look at all the empty buildings that used to be businesses.

The good old days are a thing of the past if you ask me.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by racer-x:
It always makes me laugh when people ask why things aren't the same as they used to be.

Go drive around into small towns in Indiana or Illinois and look at all the empty buildings that used to be businesses.

The good old days are a thing of the past if you ask me.

You aren't kidding there!

When I was a youngster, I remember being able to spot a race car of some sort at many small gas stations and dealers repair garages, in any part of town I went to. The local tire store had a sprint car, the "old" teenager down the street had a "coupe" that he raced at Heidelberg, guy on the next block had a roadster with 2 carburetors.
I was just a little kid then and it was all pretty exciting to me.

Today it's just not like that anymore. Average people seem to have less time, less mad money, and more distractions.

Fuel cheap? It's 2 -2 1/2 times what it was in the 90's... you figure a team coming from the left coast gonna travel 5000 miles, so your looking at 6-800 gallons, sprintweek is almost more like 2 long weekends so you're looking at 15 nites in a motel at $100/nite minimum. You are already looking at close to $3000 and havnt spent a dime on the car, eats, pit passes etc. with usac purses what they are I'd be doing backflips if the week was even close to a break even.

It was very expensive back in the 90s.i believe you no longer have the car owners who were true racers.look at the top ten in points now versus the top ten then.now,no chaffins,no gardners,no willis,etc.no knock against them,just a fact.car owners are not now what they were then.i think laurie sertich who owns the 92 jake swanson car could give us a factual picture of why more guys do not come back.they were here a few years ago.i believe she sometimes looks at this forum.laurie,if you are out there your opinion.the sertich's are racers.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Consider this, even with fuel cheaper the two weekend stint to do the two western november races cost a IN Team near or more than 20K, That's if you don't ruin a car, junk a motor or have a hauler blow up on you. The driver gets 40-50% of all winnings..

Most USAC and USAC CRA Owners are full time workers So not only are they spending a ton. They are potentially losing a big amount of revenue to do so..


If you haven't noticed, Coons, Ballou, Tmez, Boespflug and othrs have moved here, gotten jobs and homesteads in order to race OUR BRAND

Others like Hodges, Formerly Kaeding and some others have just kept a car in Indy somewhere that they can fly here and race.

While we have some car owners that will give a ride on merit. It's still often sometimes cheaper just to rent a ride.

I always knew a ton of work went into keeping a car running and to the track. Im learning more and more that there is a ton more too it than just the car. Getting the $$$ for the car is often as much work as the car itself.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Actually the days of car owners who hire drivers are about gone. The cars are too expensive. Tracks can't raise admissions because crowds are already small, and that would get even smaller. More cheap classes of sprints isn't the answer. A friend of mine who moved from PA to Indiana told me he left because 358's were killing car counts. Look now and he was right.

Dont think things are like what it was in the 90's. The price of motors, shocks(big jump), cars, fuel, and the cost to live (hotels and food) have increased in price substantially. Don't believe payout has increased at the same rate. Sponsors are hard to come by and it's hard for working people to take 3 weeks off of work to come race. Employers definitely don't like that lol.

Correct me if I'm wrong,back in the NWWC days didn't Ron Shuman set up some races along the way so they could make some cash on the way east?

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

I can't remember all the years that CRA did it's midwest tour thing, I think 90-91. They carried a sizeable contingent of about 20-25 teams who did most of the tour. And yes, they did race their way east, I know I attended three our four if not more of these events Eldora, Burg, Whitewater (Rt.44) for certain. They even put up a bounty if a non CRA driver could beat em. They brought the goods. Rip Williams, Billy Boat, Gasman Griffin, Ol Bubby Jones. McSpadden to name a few.

I do remember Kinser and Roush beat em. Frankie Kerr won Whitewater and it was only his second wingless race.

I also know several of them junked more than one car on these tours. I don't know how they did it. Im sure the payouts didn't cover expenses let alone car wear and tare

Why can,t this be done now.that is my question.factoring in inflation,it is not that much more to do it now

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
I can't remember all the years that CRA did it's midwest tour thing, I think 90-91. They carried a sizeable contingent of about 20-25 teams who did most of the tour. And yes, they did race their way east, I know I attended three our four if not more of these events Eldora, Burg, Whitewater (Rt.44) for certain. They even put up a bounty if a non CRA driver could beat em. They brought the goods. Rip Williams, Billy Boat, Gasman Griffin, Ol Bubby Jones. McSpadden to name a few.

I do remember Kinser and Roush beat em. Frankie Kerr won Whitewater and it was only his second wingless race.

I also know several of them junked more than one car on these tours. I don't know how they did it. Im sure the payouts didn't cover expenses let alone car wear and tare

I remember the late 50's and on up the best, when the Prosser's, the Amick's and dozens more, ruled Indiana and surrounding states for several years, they came East, and raced almost every night of the week, most tracks you couldn't get there soon enough, to guarantee a board to sit on, and lots of those guys did the same thing, settled in, and stayed, as far as I'm concerned, that was the hay day of sprint car racing, as well as other types, big midget years, most run what ya brung, stll decided by good setup, experienced drivers, and they ran on almost any track, history kinda has a way of repeating itself, really in my mind, the prime time of an era, not to take anything away from anyone today, but very few had an enclosed trailer, and most spent nights with friends they picked up along the way. Bob

Don't leave out that the King took their bounty at eldora in what was likely his first NW start in many years.

What do you consider "not that much more"? Fuel, both tow vehicle & race car have doubled along with lodging, tires, motors (possibly more if you count the shorter lifespan). Throw in the fact that a lot of the top usac cars will run Indiana tracks when not racing usac and it's very hard to beat them.

It was hard to beat them then.make these races during sprintweek points races for the west coast guys.guarantee you would see more cars here.lets here the reasons why that would not work.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by motorhead748:
What do you consider "not that much more"? Fuel, both tow vehicle & race car have doubled along with lodging, tires, motors (possibly more if you count the shorter lifespan). Throw in the fact that a lot of the top usac cars will run Indiana tracks when not racing usac and it's very hard to beat them.

Exactly... & how much are the purses nowadays? Pretty much a wild gamble to haul that far....

Originally Posted by david mitchell:
Why can,t this be done now.that is my question.factoring in inflation,it is not that much more to do it now

If its not that much more Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and pick out a west coast car and pay for their trip

The reason or answer to just about any problem or question whether it's racing or not is money.
And the idea of making them point races would likely bring the top 2-3 cars that are in the points championship chase.... the rest arnt gonna spend a minimum of $3000 on travel alone for what is likely a few hundred dollars in point fund money.

If it's not that much more, give me a call, I would be happy to run sprint week with enough funding.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
Actually the days of car owners who hire drivers are about gone. The cars are too expensive. Tracks can't raise admissions because crowds are already small, and that would get even smaller. More cheap classes of sprints isn't the answer. A friend of mine who moved from PA to Indiana told me he left because 358's were killing car counts. Look now and he was right.

You mentioned 358's killing car counts in PA. 360's are doing the same to 410 racing here on the west coast. 360 racing virtually wiped out 410 racing in AZ and it is pounding nails into the coffin here in California.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by david mitchell:
Opinions on why more guys from west coast do not compete in indiana sprintweek.purses,fuel for haulers at the moment are relatively cheap,cars are the same.everything is much like it was back in the 90s when you had like ten or so come back.what has changed.

Maybe they are waiting on a weather report for Sprintweek from you........

And promoters love it because they can pay them less.... and I'd argue it's not terribly cheaper to run

Originally Posted by jim goerge:
If its not that much more Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and pick out a west coast car and pay for their trip

Maybe post of the YEAR THERE Jim!!

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by motorhead748:
The reason or answer to just about any problem or question whether it's racing or not is money.
And the idea of making them point races would likely bring the top 2-3 cars that are in the points championship chase.... the rest arnt gonna spend a minimum of $3000 on travel alone for what is likely a few hundred dollars in point fund money.

Your exactly right. A certain multi time USAC championship team wouldn't make the west coast swing unless they were third or better in points or had a legitimate shot of taking third by the end.

Most that do go other than the top five, Go for the Prestige of the Oval Nationals and the big purse.

I'd love to see multiple out of area teams running sprint week. There are ways to get some. Higher purses, Higher tow money for teams outside 500 miles. But there is also another hitch. It's basic USAC 32-40 car format Four heats, consi and feature. Not condusive to bigger counts. Some are starting 10-12 cars and only 8 laps.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

In the late 80's early 90's we raced for 4000 to win 300 to start on the tour races,a new Shaver motor was 25 grand.Today the Sprint week races pay 5000 to win 500 to start and a new motor is 50+grand.So the purse money hasn't kept up with the costs.

Most teams out here are family owned and funded now versus back then when there was more car owners with deep pockets and hired drivers who had raced around the country thus having a chance to do well racing back there.

We have trouble getting good car counts when we race at tracks other than Perris so why do you think guys would travel back there when some can't afford to even go a couple hours from home,it's like yea lets travel 2000 miles to get your ass handed to you every night and spend a bunch of money that they don't have. IMO there are only a few guys running out here that have any chance racing back there unlike years ago when you had quite a few guys that not only had a chance at running well but also winning some races.

Even if Sprint Week was a points race for USAC-CRA you would still only get 5 or 6 teams make the trip,hell anymore we can hardly beat the National guys in our back yard, so why would anyone from out here think they're going to kick butt back there. Most of the guys from out here that do come back are happy if they even make the feature every night.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:

I'd love to see multiple out of area teams running sprint week. There are ways to get some. Higher purses, Higher tow money for teams outside 500 miles. But there is also another hitch. It's basic USAC 32-40 car format Four heats, consi and feature. Not condusive to bigger counts. Some are starting 10-12 cars and only 8 laps.

To pay more money teams and fans need to support the higher paying races. Many nights the races that pay more draw less cars and fans. As a fan I think the USAC format is the best and fairest there is. But if you want better paying shows, support the ones who pay more.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by B99:
Maybe they are waiting on a weather report for Sprintweek from you........

That is funny as hell right there. :5: He does have a knack for jinxing

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by Scott Daloisio:
You mentioned 358's killing car counts in PA. 360's are doing the same to 410 racing here on the west coast. 360 racing virtually wiped out 410 racing in AZ and it is pounding nails into the coffin here in California.

It happens everywhere. Anywhere a lower class of Sprints pop up guys drop down a class, costs go up, and the product gets diluted. Casual fans walk away and never return. Not enough people go to the races, tracks close. No one ever learns.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

[QUOTED in Part...why would anyone from out here think they're going to kick butt back there. Most of the guys from out here that do come back are happy if they even make the feature every night.[/QUOTE]

Californians do pretty well here in the Midwest. 15 USAC National races so far this year. Seven won by Californians. Five by Indiana/Illinois drivers. Three by drivers from three other states.

When was the last time any of those guys actually lived in California? Those guys are Indiana USAC regulars. I think his point was if you're not racing the Indiana tracks on a regular basis it will be very tough to compete. Honestly minus maybe Gardner, Bernal (who is coming) and Vanderweers who is it you guys want to see out here? The best of the best will be in the house. Who cares if 60 cars show up.

Originally Posted by CRA91:
In the late 80's early 90's we raced for 4000 to win 300 to start on the tour races,a new Shaver motor was 25 grand.Today the Sprint week races pay 5000 to win 500 to start and a new motor is 50+grand.So the purse money hasn't kept up with the costs.
Most teams out here are family owned and funded now versus back then when there was more car owners with deep pockets and hired drivers who had raced around the country thus having a chance to do well racing back there.

We have trouble getting good car counts when we race at tracks other than Perris so why do you think guys would travel back there when some can't afford to even go a couple hours from home,it's like yea lets travel 2000 miles to get your ass handed to you every night and spend a bunch of money that they don't have. IMO there are only a few guys running out here that have any chance racing back there unlike years ago when you had quite a few guys that not only had a chance at running well but also winning some races.

Even if Sprint Week was a points race for USAC-CRA you would still only get 5 or 6 teams make the trip,hell anymore we can hardly beat the National guys in our back yard, so why would anyone from out here think they're going to kick butt back there. Most of the guys from out here that do come back are happy if they even make the feature every night.

Also Terry a few years ago it was decided that the USAC/CRA guys couldn't use provisionals after some of the "locals" complained about the USAC/CRA making the feature and they didn't.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by Dirtfan:
Also Terry a few years ago it was decided that the USAC/CRA guys couldn't use provisionals after some of the "locals" complained about the USAC/CRA making the feature and they didn't.

Dan I think it was when Kruseman's protege(forget who it was) used up all the provisionals he had then started using Tony Jones number in order to use some more. It might have been Henry Clarke before he went to Kunz.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by Al Pierce:
[QUOTED in Part...why would anyone from out here think they're going to kick butt back there. Most of the guys from out here that do come back are happy if they even make the feature every night.

Californians do pretty well here in the Midwest. 15 USAC National races so far this year. Seven won by Californians. Five by Indiana/Illinois drivers. Three by drivers from three other states.[/QUOTE]

Ross got exactly what I meant,and yes Californians have done well in the Midwest but it also took some a year or two of a learning curve before they started to win consistently.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
To pay more money teams and fans need to support the higher paying races. Many nights the races that pay more draw less cars and fans. As a fan I think the USAC format is the best and fairest there is. But if you want better paying shows, support the ones who pay more.

You saying I don't?
No way out, Twice.
Little 500
Usac burg twice, bloomington once
Josh Burton
Most likely three Usac Sprint Week
King Of Lburg
Dick Gaines Mem
Usac Burg nationals
Possibly 3 crown

I also ain't going to pass up good things that are close to home like the Rt 44-Burg double header BOSS. Also been to Atomic and Waynesfield once this year so far.

I also know you travel when you can.
Take care. Just saying I think Sprintweek with it's average of probably a thou fans more at most of the races could have a couple higher than USAC standard shows. But it's a win for he tracks. So I ain't pushing.

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
It happens everywhere. Anywhere a lower class of Sprints pop up guys drop down a class, costs go up, and the product gets diluted. Casual fans walk away and never return. Not enough people go to the races, tracks close. No one ever learns.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. We started a 305 class at Jacksonville as a stepping stone to the 410/MOWA car. It has worked at getting new people into the sport. While we rarely have more than 10-12 305's we can count on, it's getting new people into a sprint car and they ultimately end up in a 410. Each year it seems like we lose 1 or 2 guys to the 410 - which is a good thing. 2 guys have stepped down from a 410 to 305 - both of which were going to park their 410 and be done. One hadn't raced for several years prior to getting back into driving with the 305. The rest are guys.. or gals... that probably never would have owned a sprint car. They race it a year or two, and buy a 410 as well, and hopefully give up the 305 when they are running near the front of a 410 race.

Not only are there 6 or 7 race-ready 305's in shops around Springfield that would have otherwise never had a sprint car in them... sitting on the floor next to a couple of them are now 410 motors that are starting to get used.

Re: Where are the west coast cars
 

Originally Posted by kdobson:
I'm going to disagree with you on this one. We started a 305 class at Jacksonville as a stepping stone to the 410/MOWA car. It has worked at getting new people into the sport. While we rarely have more than 10-12 305's we can count on, it's getting new people into a sprint car and they ultimately end up in a 410. Each year it seems like we lose 1 or 2 guys to the 410 - which is a good thing. 2 guys have stepped down from a 410 to 305 - both of which were going to park their 410 and be done. One hadn't raced for several years prior to getting back into driving with the 305. The rest are guys.. or gals... that probably never would have owned a sprint car. They race it a year or two, and buy a 410 as well, and hopefully give up the 305 when they are running near the front of a 410 race.

Not only are there 6 or 7 race-ready 305's in shops around Springfield that would have otherwise never had a sprint car in them... sitting on the floor next to a couple of them are now 410 motors that are starting to get used.

How long ago did you start your 305 program? If it has been more than 5 years, I would say that is pretty good. This is just what I have seen in the long run. Charles, I was not speaking of you only, just a general statement. If fans and teams want higher purses, they need to support the shows that are higher paying shows. If promoters see high paying shows are a money maker more will run them. Nothing aimed at you, just basic economics.