Indy Car
 

Im sure this has been asked before but what has caused indy car to get so far away from oval racing?

Re: Indy Car
 

A lot has to do that they haven't drawn good crowds. With most of the ovals owned by NASCAR, they have little interest either. I would bet Indycar and the Silver Crown race are self promoted.

I can't imagine crowds would be much worse then nascar these days. Love watching indy car but just can't get into the road course racing. Be nice to see the Michigan's and Kentuckys and Richmond back on schedule

Re: Indy Car
 

Too dangerous. I would imagine behind the scenes the drivers really don't like playing tag at 220mph. Just a hunch. Personally i love the IndyCar race at Texas, it's one of the best races you'll ever watch.

Rich M

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by IndianaSprintFan:
I can't imagine crowds would be much worse then nascar these days. Love watching indy car but just can't get into the road course racing. Be nice to see the Michigan's and Kentuckys and Richmond back on schedule

They are tremendously worse. I think Phoenix got like 20 to 25K last year. The last race at Kentucky was freaking horrible. IndyCar does a fairly poor job of promoting itself outside of 16th and Jonestown and part of that is brought on by Tony George's TV deal which is why NBC cannot place races on their main network, ABC stipulated that they are the only ones that can show OTA.

From a fan standpoint you can much bigger bang for you buck at a road/street course as well. Often they are paired with sports cars and/or all three MRTI programs, so there is constant on track action and not to mention you can get up and walk around rather than being confined to a seat in the hot sun.


But at the end of the day, regardless of what Tony promised you all, it was never about preserving the "oval heritage", which if you know anything of the history of series, well, to put it lightly is a line of ********. It was 100% about preserving the perceived slighting of the cash cow at 16th and the roundabout and who was going to control the series. So I don't think anyone should be in the least surprised as to the direction of the series after the vision of total world domination was completed with the merger in 2008.

Yes, it comes down to the fact that IndyCars' oval races have not been well attended in recent years. The consensus among fans is that there isn't much action on event days outside the main event. This is why the Silver Crown cars were added at Phoenix this weekend.

The tide seems to be shifting however: with the downturn in NASCAR's popularity, in both attendance and Tv numbers, IndyCar is looking more and more attractive to promoters and sponsors. Gateway was added to the schedule this season for an August date, and word on the street says that Kentucky Speedway recently approached the series about getting back on the schedule in order to replace their recently lost stand-alone Xfinity date.

The answer to the question is if you love Indy-style oval racing (like me), watch them on Tv, and go to one (or more!) of the races near you. Also, maybe send Kentucky Speedway an email and let them know that you'd love to see IndyCar back; I know I plan to.

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
A lot has to do that they haven't drawn good crowds. With most of the ovals owned by NASCAR, they have little interest either. I would bet Indycar and the Silver Crown race are self promoted.

Actually, ISC is, in fact, promoting the show at Phoenix. NOT a self promotion. ISC is also promoting Watkins Glen this year too- after IndyCar self-promoted it last season.

Just one reason why I say that the tide seems to be turning.

Re: Indy Car
 

It was inevitable that as CART failed and eventually ceased to exist, Indycar would add road courses to replace ovals that were not well attended.

Re: Indy Car
 

The answer is in the profitability of the event. If oval races were consistent money makers, they would be on the schedule.

........Kentucky Speedway recently approached the series about getting back on the schedule in order to replace their recently lost stand-alone Xfinity date.

Would Love to see Indy car back at Kentucky. I have been to the race a number of times when they raced there. Every finish you could not put a piece of paper between 1st and 2nd. It makes no sense to me why people did not see that and not support that race. I guess I am one the few that prefer open wheel over parade racing in this state.

Re: Indy Car
 

Watching the Indy Car race from Phoenix now on NBCSN and the crowd size is pitiful.

Yes it is... I don't watch the road races. Is there much larger attendance?

I guess a 12 second win and 5 or 6 cars on the lead lap sure doesn't help my argument for more ovals less road races.

Re: Indy Car
 

There are several one mile dirt tracks across our great country. Put em on dirt.Just testing on dirt would be a good story

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by cowboyhar69:
Watching the Indy Car race from Phoenix now on NBCSN and the crowd size is pitiful.

This is why we don't see more ovals on the schedule...

Originally Posted by mc/rider:
There are several one mile dirt tracks across our great country. Put em on dirt.Just testing on dirt would be a good story

:deadhorse::15::deadhorse::15::20::10::34:

Re: Indy Car
 

Paul Tracy said that the rubber from the "sprint car" race may have been a factor in the first lap crash. Don't know about the rubber, but pretty sure there hasn't been a sprint car race at PIR in 25 years or so.

Make American Open Wheel Racing Great Again!:6:
 

Originally Posted by IndianaSprintFan:
Im sure this has been asked before but what has caused indy car to get so far away from oval racing?

The current car configuration isn't as conducive to "High Banked" oval track racing as they once were. High downforce bullet-shaped cars are better suited to flatter ovals, than high banks. The faster the cars go, the less actual racing takes place(boring), there is no need to go 235mph. Then add in a complete disconnect from "actual" grassroots American style oval track racing(which is what we do) and a lack of "actual" American drivers being sought for rides in the series and you get a public who is not interested. Some highly opinionated folks erroneously blame Tony George for all the series current short comings, but that just isn't true, the IRL years were some of the most successful and well-attended races for many years. Finally, add in the multiple power plays for control over the years and you get this stumbling bumbling, drama laden, series with people nobody knows and cars traveling so fast you can't tell who is who and to the casual fan its off-putting to say the least. Plenty of blame to go around, but the IRL days produced some of the last best American drivers to come out of that series, you won't see that anymore.

Bottom line, todays "younger" casual fan likes shorter entertainment events that suit their minimal attention spans, 2hrs or less. Americans on the whole, prefer to actually be able to pronounce the drivers names, be familiar with where they come from and be able understand them when they talk. If your dream series is an international form of F1 lite, then you have what you want now. However, if you'd like greater attendance and support from fans in this country, things need to change. I'm an American and I believe in supporting Americans first.

Make American Open Wheel Racing Great Again!:6:

Re: Make American Open Wheel Racing Great Again!:6:
 

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
Bottom line, todays "younger" casual fan likes shorter entertainment events that suit their minimal attention spans, 2hrs or less. Americans on the whole, prefer to actually be able to pronounce the drivers names, be familiar with where they come from and be able understand them when they talk. If your dream series is an international form of F1 lite, then you have what you want now. However, if you'd like greater attendance and support from fans in this country, things need to change. I'm an American and I believe in supporting Americans first.

Which is exactly why IMS saw an uptick in ticket sales the week of Alonso's decision to run.....:5::5::5:

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts, and there are others here who have pointed out that those of us laying it out for you are correct. I wonder why that is? Sarcasm on/ I don't think it would have anything to do with the fact that we read actual documents, books, interview transcripts, and view video interviews and past races. Sarcasm off/

I tell you what. We'll both promote a race. I'll fill my field with the Andrettis, Fittipaldis, Mansells, Jim Clarks, Vettells, Mears, Rutherfords, Unsers, and Gurneys of the world. You can fill your race with all the USAC, WoO, and local talent until your heart is overflowing. Hell you can resurrect a few of your favorite Offy power front engine machines if you want to. I'll skip on the bus jumping through flames with a gigantic 'Merican flag competition. What I will do is promote the living breathing Jesus out of my event and the stars filling it while working on a contract to get it put on network TV. You can keep promoting yours via posters on telephone polls, Facebook, and then run the race on PPV live stream.

We'll compare gate receipts and sponsor dollars after the event. I may not get a post on here about how proud and honored someone was that they got to see Kinser and Hewitt run the 500 but my money is on that I'll be the one living a little bit larger the day after.

I understand this is pure blasphemy here, but racing as a whole would be a Hell of a lot better off with thinkers and doers like Gurney in charge. I hate having to tell you this, but there is a world outside wherever it is in Georgia you live and if your were any kind of a American you would take pride in having an event that can garner world wide attention.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by Rapid Rick:
Paul Tracy said that the rubber from the "sprint car" race may have been a factor in the first lap crash. Don't know about the rubber, but pretty sure there hasn't been a sprint car race at PIR in 25 years or so.

I picked up on that, too. He was referring to the Silver Crown race, I am sure, when he was making his point.

I was just glad that he and Townsend Bell were on the TV vice Cheever and Goodyear.

Re: Indy Car
 

Colin Chapman with putting the motor in the rear was the start of the oval downward trend.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by davidm:
Colin Chapman with putting the motor in the rear was the start of the oval downward trend.

Actually, it was John Cooper (at the suggestion of Roger Ward).
The next year, Dan Gurney invited Chapman over for a look-see but the handwriting was already on the proverbial wall.
That wasn't so much the demise of oval racing but it was the death knell of the front-engine package; the first Loti had considerable offset and even Brabham's little Cooper-Climax had a tad bit of left bias if I recall.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Actually, it was John Cooper (at the suggestion of Roger Ward).
The next year, Dan Gurney invited Chapman over for a look-see but the handwriting was already on the proverbial wall.
That wasn't so much the demise of oval racing but it was the death knell of the front-engine package; the first Loti had considerable offset and even Brabham's little Cooper-Climax had a tad bit of left bias if I recall.

What? You mean it wasn't the evil twin entities of Penske and CART? Well, I do declare, you might want to be careful with those "selective facts" you pulled from Google.:5:

Hell, before you know it, you'll be one of those evil businessmen with clean fingernails and shirts sipping on a glass of fine red wine while penning your racing manifesto.

Re: Indy Car
 

The start of that race should have been waved off. They were way stretched out. Watched the replay several times and it looks like they started going into 3 before green. As far as the fast ovals they were really something to see live. I miss Michigan, Chicago and Kentucky. went to them all.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by duel:
The start of that race should have been waved off. They were way stretched out. Watched the replay several times and it looks like they started going into 3 before green. As far as the fast ovals they were really something to see live. I miss Michigan, Chicago and Kentucky. went to them all.

Yep. They really need to be listening to Will Power and others on the power/downforce they are running at these short ovals. They need to up the power to the levels they run on the road and street and knock the downforce back a bit. Hopefully that latter part gets corrected with the downforce production going primarily back to the undertray next year.

When they said they decided to add more downforce after testing I was completely shocked, they aren't listening to the drivers. With the current levels everyone is running equal and you hit a brick wall when you pull out to try and pass.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by Brickyard:
What? You mean it wasn't the evil twin entities of Penske and CART? Well, I do declare, you might want to be careful with those "selective facts" you pulled from Google.:5:

Hell, before you know it, you'll be one of those evil businessmen with clean fingernails and shirts sipping on a glass of fine red wine while penning your racing manifesto.

Nothing selective about it, not sure I get the sarcasm; Chapman was not even among the first to switch to rear-engine cars in Europe. Googling not required.
For better or worse, change is inevitable unless rules are made against it. ******** is a whole different matter...

Re: Indy Car
 

Seems like the blame game comes along 2-3 times a year when we start pointing fingers at everyone and everything about the lack of interest in racing. There are those that are ate up with racing, those that believe the world will end if they are not at a race track every time an engine firers! I have seen guys that sit in the stands and take down every lap of qualifying and keep record on the entire event! People that will put their job in jeopardy before they will miss a race.But these people are but a blip on the radar. How about this for an idea, the population continues to increase at the same time race tracks and spectator attendance continues to drop?
Why, ?..The world has slowly changed and the general population of people know 0 about motorsports! I teach in a High School of 2000 students in Indianapolis (The Capital of Racing) and this year I have seen 1 open wheel t-shirt, 1...ONE out of 2000 students. I ask the student "do you go to sprint car races?"....He replies "what is a sprint car?"...I say "your wearing a Robert Ballou shirt" ...He replies "Who" ...so I tell him Ballou is a USAC sprint car champion...he says "what is U , what ever you said, I got this shirt at a garage sale because it fit me"

2000 kids, I can not find one to talk racing with, ZERO...You can blame whom ever, what ever, you can say we need to get kids to the race track...The ship has sailed, we missed the boat with the young people that are now parents of the little ones. The technology area has the market on the youth (40 and below) and the youth want a different kind of entertainment!

I refer to short track fans of open wheel as a "cult following" and they are in 100%, so for the foreseeable future it will survive... Long Term ??

Since this message board is the place for race fans most of you will not agree with me, I understand...I myself look forward to ever telecast of Indy Car, watching Chilli Bowl week is the highlight of my winter...I just have an opinion on why attendance is dropping from a realistic perspective.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by ossuks:
Seems like the blame game comes along 2-3 times a year when we start pointing fingers at everyone and everything about the lack of interest in racing. There are those that are ate up with racing, those that believe the world will end if they are not at a race track every time an engine firers! I have seen guys that sit in the stands and take down every lap of qualifying and keep record on the entire event! People that will put their job in jeopardy before they will miss a race.But these people are but a blip on the radar. How about this for an idea, the population continues to increase at the same time race tracks and spectator attendance continues to drop?
Why, ?..The world has slowly changed and the general population of people know 0 about motorsports! I teach in a High School of 2000 students in Indianapolis (The Capital of Racing) and this year I have seen 1 open wheel t-shirt, 1...ONE out of 2000 students. I ask the student "do you go to sprint car races?"....He replies "what is a sprint car?"...I say "your wearing a Robert Ballou shirt" ...He replies "Who" ...so I tell him Ballou is a USAC sprint car champion...he says "what is U , what ever you said, I got this shirt at a garage sale because it fit me"

2000 kids, I can not find one to talk racing with, ZERO...You can blame whom ever, what ever, you can say we need to get kids to the race track...The ship has sailed, we missed the boat with the young people that are now parents of the little ones. The technology area has the market on the youth (40 and below) and the youth want a different kind of entertainment!

I refer to short track fans of open wheel as a "cult following" and they are in 100%, so for the foreseeable future it will survive... Long Term ??

Since this message board is the place for race fans most of you will not agree with me, I understand...I myself look forward to ever telecast of Indy Car, watching Chilli Bowl week is the highlight of my winter...I just have an opinion on why attendance is dropping from a realistic perspective.

Agree 100% with you. I, being an 18 year old highly into multiple forms of motorsports, found it VERY difficult getting into the dirt track, open wheel racing world. I am a HUGE IndyCar fan and grew up going to Indy and Kentucky and watching the old IRL on TV. When I first went to a sprint car race at Lawrenceburg less than two years ago, I fell in love with it. But looking back now I realized that Fans, Drivers, Announcers, Promoters and people involved with racing HAVE to inform new fans and people that are even the slight bit interested about the cars, the format, fun facts and things to make them more interested.

I got hooked on sprints when I heard the Lawrenceburg Announcer (Chad Cunningham) talk about how the sprint cars racing at Lawrenceburg had close to 900 horsepower and only weighed around 1400 pounds. To me I thought that was absolutely badass, and instantly made me interested. But as I went on, I went to some midget races, some sprint pavement races, some crown/champ car races and it seemed every new track I went to or to see new kinds of cars I was so confused as to what the difference was between a sprint and midget, sprint and crown car, winged vs non wing and so on. At the expense of my embarrassment I wouldn't try to ask questions to any of those folks I mentioned before, because I didn't want to be deemed "stupid" when it came to dirt track open wheel racing in our area. Google does not provide very good answers as to the questions I had. I know a cool moment for me came at May in 2015, shortly after I had seen my first sprint car race. It was at Indianapolis and after I had interviewed him, Bryan Clauson showed me around his car for the 500 and explained to me about the differences between an IndyCar and a sprint car, explained how this or that worked and did so in a very fine manner. From then on, I've been hooked. Even though it may seem stupid to some for a "kid" who has never strapped into a race car to look up to these guys as heroes, I know I sure do. The brave folks who put on the helmet and gloves, get up on the wheel and can drive a car for 30 some laps, then come have a chat with you in the pits afterwards like you've been friends forever, that is one big thing that made me a junkie about this stuff. I wanted a reason, like most, to have a reason to be interested in the event I was at. I wanted to talk to badly to people who had been around this sport for years. To hear stories about Kenyon, Hewitt, Foyt, Jones and so on but it seemed that some people I tried to talk to had zero interested in chatting with me, which was unfortunate.

So if you've been a fan, a driver, car owner, announcer or just someone who knows something about racing that you can pass along, no matter the discipline of motorsport, please...take a few moments to chat with that random person you see looking at a car, sitting alone during hot laps watching cars go by or walking around the pits during the course of the race. I would have loved to have more guidance from people to teach me what this or that was, and I still need that guidance as I'm learning every day about this type or car or that part...to me its just super fascinating. I may not be like most high school seniors, but I promise you that there are some people out there in the same situation I was some two years ago. It won't happen over night, but I really do believe that this sport has a huge future. Heck....I was chatting with my barber a few weeks back and he talked about the new Dodge Demon car. Said that nothing could touch the horsepower and ability that car had. I told him and showed him videos of sprint cars. He thought it was awesome, we talked about them for half an hour and he is going to his first race whenever the rains go away.

Sorry for the rambling on, but I felt obligated to put my .02 in on this topic. This stuff has become really special to me, and I want to be able to pass that on to others and to make this sport be a driving force for some people, instead of something random to do on a weekend.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Nothing selective about it, not sure I get the sarcasm; Chapman was not even among the first to switch to rear-engine cars in Europe. Googling not required.
For better or worse, change is inevitable unless rules are made against it. ******** is a whole different matter...

It's sarcasm. A few of us have pretty much explained the same thing only to get the standard rebuttal of "evil CART", "evil Penske forced all of this", "you hate dirt trackers", "you're only cherry picking facts from a Google search", "true racers have dirt under their fingernails and don't do their own legwork in obtaining financing", "I only got through a few sentences of the White Paper and all I get is Dan Gurney is one of those evil buinessmen" ....standard fair for those who can't handle reality and will never do what it takes to get where they proclaim they want to be. It's always some other dude's fault.

Like you say and every leadership course known to man teaches, change is inevitable, you either get on the horse and ride or get left behind.

Re: Indy Car
 

OK...
I wasn't blaming anybody, just relating a little history (from memory, incidentally; I may have been 9 years old when the Cooper came to town but I still didn't have to look it up somewhere). Heck, if you want to read between the lines you can say it was Roger Ward's fault. Didn't mean to get your knickers in a twist, though.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
OK...
I wasn't blaming anybody, just relating a little history (from memory, incidentally; I may have been 9 years old when the Cooper came to town but I still didn't have to look it up somewhere). Heck, if you want to read between the lines you can say it was Roger Ward's fault. Didn't mean to get your knickers in a twist, though.

You didn't get anything in a twist. You added to what some of us have been explaining.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by RyanKentJr:
Agree 100% with you. I, being an 18 year old highly into multiple forms of motorsports, found it VERY difficult getting into the dirt track, open wheel racing world. I am a HUGE IndyCar fan and grew up going to Indy and Kentucky and watching the old IRL on TV. When I first went to a sprint car race at Lawrenceburg less than two years ago, I fell in love with it. But looking back now I realized that Fans, Drivers, Announcers, Promoters and people involved with racing HAVE to inform new fans and people that are even the slight bit interested about the cars, the format, fun facts and things to make them more interested.

I got hooked on sprints when I heard the Lawrenceburg Announcer (Chad Cunningham) talk about how the sprint cars racing at Lawrenceburg had close to 900 horsepower and only weighed around 1400 pounds. To me I thought that was absolutely badass, and instantly made me interested. But as I went on, I went to some midget races, some sprint pavement races, some crown/champ car races and it seemed every new track I went to or to see new kinds of cars I was so confused as to what the difference was between a sprint and midget, sprint and crown car, winged vs non wing and so on. At the expense of my embarrassment I wouldn't try to ask questions to any of those folks I mentioned before, because I didn't want to be deemed "stupid" when it came to dirt track open wheel racing in our area. Google does not provide very good answers as to the questions I had. I know a cool moment for me came at May in 2015, shortly after I had seen my first sprint car race. It was at Indianapolis and after I had interviewed him, Bryan Clauson showed me around his car for the 500 and explained to me about the differences between an IndyCar and a sprint car, explained how this or that worked and did so in a very fine manner. From then on, I've been hooked. Even though it may seem stupid to some for a "kid" who has never strapped into a race car to look up to these guys as heroes, I know I sure do. The brave folks who put on the helmet and gloves, get up on the wheel and can drive a car for 30 some laps, then come have a chat with you in the pits afterwards like you've been friends forever, that is one big thing that made me a junkie about this stuff. I wanted a reason, like most, to have a reason to be interested in the event I was at. I wanted to talk to badly to people who had been around this sport for years. To hear stories about Kenyon, Hewitt, Foyt, Jones and so on but it seemed that some people I tried to talk to had zero interested in chatting with me, which was unfortunate.

So if you've been a fan, a driver, car owner, announcer or just someone who knows something about racing that you can pass along, no matter the discipline of motorsport, please...take a few moments to chat with that random person you see looking at a car, sitting alone during hot laps watching cars go by or walking around the pits during the course of the race. I would have loved to have more guidance from people to teach me what this or that was, and I still need that guidance as I'm learning every day about this type or car or that part...to me its just super fascinating. I may not be like most high school seniors, but I promise you that there are some people out there in the same situation I was some two years ago. It won't happen over night, but I really do believe that this sport has a huge future. Heck....I was chatting with my barber a few weeks back and he talked about the new Dodge Demon car. Said that nothing could touch the horsepower and ability that car had. I told him and showed him videos of sprint cars. He thought it was awesome, we talked about them for half an hour and he is going to his first race whenever the rains go away.

Sorry for the rambling on, but I felt obligated to put my .02 in on this topic. This stuff has become really special to me, and I want to be able to pass that on to others and to make this sport be a driving force for some people, instead of something random to do on a weekend.

THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION IS THE ONE YOU DON'T ASK! Everybody starts out a beginner....

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by davidm:
Colin Chapman with putting the motor in the rear was the start of the oval downward trend.

Didn't American hot rod genius Mickey Thompson enter rear engine car about the same time?

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by revjimk:
Didn't American hot rod genius Mickey Thompson enter rear engine car about the same time?

Not the same time... FIRST: http://thompson-motorsports.com/indy.html

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by revjimk:
Not the same time... FIRST: http://thompson-motorsports.com/indy.html

First r/e, stock block; Cooper/Climax was the first rear-engine car, the year before. Well, everybody thinks that but the Gulf-Millers (later called the Tucker Torpedo) of the late '30's & early '40's sorta mess up that narrative.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by Brickyard:
every leadership course known to man teaches, change is inevitable

And life teaches that not all change is good.

Re: Indy Car
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
First r/e, stock block; Cooper/Climax was the first rear-engine car, the year before. Well, everybody thinks that but the Gulf-Millers (later called the Tucker Torpedo) of the late '30's & early '40's sorta mess up that narrative.

Thanks for the correction, wasn't sure