Desoto Speedway safety
 

I have never been to Desoto Speedway but it seems to have had a lot of serious crashes over the years, most notably the April 1985 crash of stock car standout Butch Lindley which left him in a coma until he passed in June 1990. I ran across a cell phone video of Dave Steele's crash posted by a fan at the track. Most disturbing thing was the report that there was no ambulance or EMS service available at the track. If that is a fact, I don't understand why the drivers would race under those conditions. This track has been around for a long time and ESPN used to broadcast races from there. As a matter of fact, the race in which Butch Lindley was injured was being broadcast live. There was plenty of emergency personnel on the scene at that accident, which makes me wonder if the report of lack of EMS service at the track last night is true.
Perhaps Desoto isn't any worse than any other high banked paved speedway, but when you lose drivers the caliber of Butch Lindley and Dave Steele it is bound to cast a spotlight on the facility.
After posting this, I discovered a bit of irony, Butch Lindley was born on March 25, 1948, so Dave Steele's accident occurred on what would have been Butch's 69th birthday.

Did Dave ever start wearing a Hans, full containment seat, or window net? I saw a picture of him racing in 2015 & 2016 and at that time he had none of those. I hope that this is not the case, that proper safety equipment might have changed the result?

After watching the video I assume that he didn't have a full containment seat and possibly hit his head on wall? I am always interested in these accidents and what we can do to make our sport safer. I guess it's the engineering education in me that makes me inquisitive about these accidents. Most don't run a cage net or headrest on left side and that's about the only plausible thing I've deduced from watching the video.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

The accident didn't look that serious, but he did hit the wall with the left side of the car, so it is logical that he probably didn't have safety equipment that would protect him from that sort of impact. His accident looked eerily similar to Butch Lindley's.

Originally Posted by ronmil:
I have never been to Desoto Speedway but it seems to have had a lot of serious crashes over the years, most notably the April 1985 crash of stock car standout Butch Lindley which left him in a coma until he passed in June 1990. I ran across a cell phone video of Dave Steele's crash posted by a fan at the track. Most disturbing thing was the report that there was no ambulance or EMS service available at the track. If that is a fact, I don't understand why the drivers would race under those conditions. This track has been around for a long time and ESPN used to broadcast races from there. As a matter of fact, the race in which Butch Lindley was injured was being broadcast live. There was plenty of emergency personnel on the scene at that accident, which makes me wonder if the report of lack of EMS service at the track last night is true.
Perhaps Desoto isn't any worse than any other high banked paved speedway, but when you lose drivers the caliber of Butch Lindley and Dave Steele it is bound to cast a spotlight on the facility.
After posting this, I discovered a bit of irony, Butch Lindley was born on March 25, 1948, so Dave Steele's accident occurred on what would have been Butch's 69th birthday.

Oh,come on now.The discussion of emergency vehicles being on site has been on here,before.there are tracks all around Indiana,present day,that do the same thing.drivers still choose to show and race.It's an across the board thing.The drivers,the promoters,and the tracks have to get together and resolve this kind if problem

Last year at fun fest at Brownstown, we were told at the drivers meeting that there wasn't an ambulance. Looking back I should had packed up and gone home, but was weak and wanted one more race. But I decided I wouldn't go back until they had an ambulance and I might never go back because if they don't respect their racers enough to have an ambulance on the grounds, then they don't deserve my business.

Was not at the No way Out last night, but was told an ambulance was there. Can anyone confirm that?

WOW!! Are we really doing this again the day after a tragedy. Probably should have a little respect for the family and give it a few days before criticizing the whole situation

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by trannyman:
Oh,come on now.The discussion of emergency vehicles being on site has been on here,before.there are tracks all around Indiana,present day,that do the same thing.drivers still choose to show and race.It's an across the board thing.The drivers,the promoters,and the tracks have to get together and resolve this kind if problem

Seriously? Tracks in Indiana today that run a racing program with no ambulances? I have never witnessed that. I remember going to races at Ellis Speedway in Reed, KY and also Windy Hollow Speedway outside of Owensboro, KY in the late sixties and early seventies when the announcer would ask if anyone in the audience had a station wagon they could use as an ambulance. I do remember someone had a really nice '65 Ford station wagon they let the track use at Ellis Speedway one Sunday afternoon.

Unfortunately it all depends on the track's insurance policy requirements. No state laws and yes there is tracks in Indiana today with no ambulances where young kids even race at. Witnessed it with my series last year and cancelled the rest of our races at that track.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Well, this has certainly been an enlightening experience. Had no idea we had such tracks in existence in this day and age. Apparently there was an earlier thread about this issue sometime in the past, but I did not see it. With racing having such a prominent presence in Indiana, it is surprising that is so unregulated.

I wasn't criticizing.only clarifying for the one poster that it does go on.it will have.to be a combined effort to try to fix.blaming a track every time we lose a racer isn't going to fix it.and with due respect,I'm guessing the family isn't on here giving a rat a$$ about post while dealing with such a horrific situation.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Brownstown had a ambulance and at least has every time I've seen a sprint race there.

Must have just been one event. I can specifically remember them tell us at the drivers meeting, " Don't worry if someone gets hurt, we will call and get an ambulance here." Must have just been a one time deal. Thank you for clarifying.

There was ambulance at Brownstown last night.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

I've been to brownstown at least 75 times and they always had an ambulance. not very speedy though. I think bobby gomph made the brownstown regulars look foolish last night on his speedy assistance to accidents. lol even heard comments from the late model regulars...wtg bobby!!! (Lawrenceburg safety crew)

Anyone know what happen to Peirce made the race didnt start. Saw ambulance at his trailer when leaving.

Originally Posted by Buster51:
Anyone know what happen to Peirce made the race didnt start. Saw ambulance at his trailer when leaving.

Thought he had the flu, something a little more serious going on inside and had to have surgery today. Don't know much more than that.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Some Florida tracks such as Volusia County and New SMyrna have their own used ambulances and staffed by off duty emts. Cost savings measure? These ambulances are not allowed to transport so they have to send ambulances from town and meet them at the gate. Anyone see $100 pit passes coming?:41::

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by Nate:
Thought he had the flu, something a little more serious going on inside and had to have surgery today. Don't know much more than that.

Saw on Facebook he was driving with ruptured intestines and diverticulitis. Still put it in the show. That one tough guy! He and the Steele family are in my thoughts and prayers

I have been to several races where when the ambulance left to transport a driver or fan the show was delayed until the ambulance returned. Following midgets in the Midwest I always assumed there were laws or insurance requirements that an ambulance was necessary whenever cars were on the track.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by chastaj:
Did Dave ever start wearing a Hans, full containment seat, or window net? I saw a picture of him racing in 2015 & 2016 and at that time he had none of those. I hope that this is not the case, that proper safety equipment might have changed the result?

How many drivers do we have to lose before tracks and sanctioning bodies require full containment seats. Looking at a picture of Steele's car from that night there is no full containment seat showing on the left side. Driver impacting the left side and nothing to keep the drivers head from hitting the wall.

I do give credit to Eldora as they are mandating full containment seats for all series this year (hence why BOSS is not sanctioning the Sprintacular nonwinged portion). Of course it took a fatality last year in a late model for this to become mandatory.

Just makes me sick when we lose another driver. RIP Dave Steele and Jason Leffler.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

I work at a couple of tracks in NE Wisconsin. We always have a ambulance at the tracks. When we have an injury or medical emergency in the stands, racing stops. If they have to transport we wait an till we have another ambulance on site.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

I grew up going to Dixie/Rome/Seven Flags Speedways in Georgia and we always had an ambulance on site, along with paramedics and first responders too. I remember on a few occasions where somebody got hurt and the ambulance had to leave, so they stopped the show till a replacement ambulance was back on site.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by ronmil:
Well, this has certainly been an enlightening experience. Had no idea we had such tracks in existence in this day and age. Apparently there was an earlier thread about this issue sometime in the past, but I did not see it. With racing having such a prominent presence in Indiana, it is surprising that is so unregulated.

who is going to regulate? I hope you don't mean some kind of government entity.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

My dad and I promote one outlaw kart national level race every year.. usually a 2 day show to effectively get the fastest guys in the main...we pay 3 grand to win and 200 to start a kart race on a small rodeo arena....because one time a year we can hustle enough sponsorship to afford to do it on that scale and still make it turn out as a profitable fundraiser...

To have a staffed ambulance on site at standby status, which means they leave if they get a dispatch call, costs upwards of 800-900 bucks per night... for them to be there watching our program instead of parked in their garage watching TV... I can't even tell you how much it costs today to get one on site with dedicated status..meaning they stay until they leave to transport one of our people or the show ends....because it was somewhere around 1200-1400 bucks per night 8-10 years ago the last time we asked about dedicated service.

If I'm a racer with 50 bucks in the checking account, no new tires, and a motor that needed freshened 3 weeks ago I can't honestly tell you which of the following 2 races I'm going to point my truck towards next weekend...

track A who now only pays 500 to win because us openwheel guys demanded an on site transport vehicle and staff and that thousand bucks had to come from somewhere or ...

track B 50 miles down the road where I always run good, 2 of the local hotshoes refuse to race, and they still pay 1500 to win weekly but we all know they have to call for transport

Seriously... I know what my choice should be...I know what I hope Id decide.. but I can't honestly say I would... and I bet track B has a bigger car count on average each week...

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

I personally don't think they should mandate full containment seats or anything if a racer doesn't want to run one gets in a accident which ends up killing them that's their choice. I also think tracks should have ambulances I like Waynesfield and Limaland rules if ambulance has to leave no racing is going to happen until a ambulance get back to the track. I'm all for full containment seats but not everyone is.

Darnell, 4-5 years ago the MTQRL paid to have an ambulance at a few of their races and it was nowhere near the 800-900 you stated. Possibly because we only needed one onsite for approx. 4 hours to cover all of our on track activity.

I believe what you stated was true for your event, but didn't want that number to prohibit someone from checking on an ambulance for their event.

This might sound a little dumb,but it,"s up to tje driver if he want's to run aa containment seat,hans device,only he can decide not sanction body,they can and should recomend them ,but not require them think that would open them up to liabity for giving driver's false pretense that auto racing is safe since they required them to have such devices,like i said some people might think this is dumb, but it should still be up to the driver,next time,at a race track look at some of the cars ,with all their visora ,side panel"s and then throw in the containment seat's have of the driver's cant even see out of them ,so let's notjump into mandating more safety things lets mandate that racetracks have fully staff medical & fire crews on staff , never really hear driver's voice on these things,we choose when to race and when not to depending on track conditions,nobbody ever want's to be injured or killed but that is a chance we take everytime we strap into a car,like i said some might think my opinion is dumb but it is what it is prayers to the family of Dave

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by hoscalecody:
I personally don't think they should mandate full containment seats or anything if a racer doesn't want to run one gets in a accident which ends up killing them that's their choice. I also think tracks should have ambulances I like Waynesfield and Limaland rules if ambulance has to leave no racing is going to happen until a ambulance get back to the track. I'm all for full containment seats but not everyone is.

Then we ought to let guys run without cages with that mentality. Come on this was a preventative fatality if he had all the proper equipment. Lets stop the let racers make the choice and make everyone have all the proper safety equipment on board. Guys will spend thousands on titanium bolts but not a piece of equipment that could save your life. Just my opinion.

Agree 100% on the ambulance front.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

As a promoter I can tell you every single area is different. I have paid as little as $100 to have an ambulance at a facility, but I have also paid as much as $1000. One other thing that has changed over the last 5 years is the transport rules. At just about every single venue we work with, if the Hospital is more than 5min. away, they will call for a 2nd unit to transport. Also in several areas, fire departments are the main ambulance service. Now you have EMT's and not Paramedics working your events. This is also a big factor in price. I have read several comments here from people who have no clue what they are talking about. An ambulance on site means nothing if it is not able to transport. So many more things I can add to this, but many would not believe me.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

This past Saturday at Lincoln Speedway (PA) we had a driver injured. They always have two staffed ambulances at the track one in the pits and one grandstand area. As they left with the driver a third ambulances was pulling into the track. Just as they were about to push the cars back off a call comes in for an injured fan (kid) in the stands. All EMTS responded. Even though there was still an ambulance and fire crew in the pits no cars moved until the EMTS returned to the Pits. No car moves unless they have a staffed ambulance in the pits.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

The fact is this.The day will come when someone is killed and the family of that driver will sue the sanctioning body and the track because they did not make containment seats, hans devices, and cage straps on both sides mandatory.It is the society we live in. Bite the bullet now and don't open yourself up to these legal problems down the road. Fact is, a lot of drivers need to be protected from themselves. You may say personal choice, and I agree, but not when it means closing of Speedways and millions of dollars in lawsuits. It is not 1955 anymore. It is 2017. Auto racing has to start conducting itself in this manner.The same goes for the safety of the tracks. How many tracks do you go to on a regular basis and look around and wonder why hasn't that been changed.One comes to mind immediately. An opening in the wall going in to turn three. Please, it is not like it has not killed a couple of drivers before, yet there it still is.No excuse about it being the only way into the infield for cars. Put in a gate and close it.The thought process is truly amazing. We don't have the money to do this.Spend the money, or possibly be shut down forever. For God's sake show some concern for the people that compete there.Again, it is 2017 not 1955. Society has changed.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by david mitchell:
The fact is this.The day will come when someone is killed and the family of that driver will sue the sanctioning body and the track because they did not make containment seats, hans devices, and cage straps on both sides mandatory.It is the society we live in. Bite the bullet now and don't open yourself up to these legal problems down the road. Fact is, a lot of drivers need to be protected from themselves. You may say personal choice, and I agree, but not when it means closing of Speedways and millions of dollars in lawsuits. It is not 1955 anymore. It is 2017. Auto racing has to start conducting itself in this manner.The same goes for the safety of the tracks. How many tracks do you go to on a regular basis and look around and wonder why hasn't that been changed.One comes to mind immediately. An opening in the wall going in to turn three. Please, it is not like it has not killed a couple of drivers before, yet there it still is.No excuse about it being the only way into the infield for cars. Put in a gate and close it.The thought process is truly amazing. We don't have the money to do this.Spend the money, or possibly be shut down forever. For God's sake show some concern for the people that compete there.Again, it is 2017 not 1955. Society has changed.

This is where you are wrong, How many tracks or series have people to inspect and certify the equipment that you want mandated. Your lawsuit argument is bogus. Anyone can sue for anything at any time. When you mandate a safety devise and it fails, you become liable. Lets talk about seat belts. How do you test them? Majority of tracks look at the date and they specify in there rules exactly how they will check the belts. Now if you read the fine print on belts, you are to discard after crashes. How many people can look at a seatbelt and tell weather or not it has been in a crash? This is why tracks only use dates.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Personally, I think ultimately all auto racing will be regulated by the State.It has been done this way in New Jersey for years. Get ready for it.

How could anyone argue that a full containment seat couldn't help save your life in a side impact ?

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by 767:
As a promoter I can tell you every single area is different. I have paid as little as $100 to have an ambulance at a facility, but I have also paid as much as $1000. One other thing that has changed over the last 5 years is the transport rules. At just about every single venue we work with, if the Hospital is more than 5min. away, they will call for a 2nd unit to transport. Also in several areas, fire departments are the main ambulance service. Now you have EMT's and not Paramedics working your events. This is also a big factor in price. I have read several comments here from people who have no clue what they are talking about. An ambulance on site means nothing if it is not able to transport. So many more things I can add to this, but many would not believe me.

767 this topic has been discussed before and everyone cares today but in a week its GOT TO RACE. I canceled a race one time because there was not proper safety equipment and got LAMBLATED on this message board because some did not get to race. I lost my job at USAC because I told Kevin Miller and his 1/2 million dollar salary that if USAC could not provide a peramedic at every event then he could find someone else to do my job. And he did. AND no one cared .....In 2 weeks most start to forget but family and they have to live with this for eternity.....There are very few that put safety first....IT cost me a job, I thought it would bring to the attention of the racing community (usac) that they were racing with sub par personal but no one cared....But, there are races coming up and we got to race weather we are fans or we are competitors we got to race.....well, almost all you will be there...not me...not anymore...I used to care and see where it got me...

Originally Posted by 767:
So many more things I can add to this, but many would not believe me.

I would. My biggest complaint since I started racing six years ago has been the lack of appropriate track safety crews. Like you said, people have no clue. I have never promoted, but I do race my own car, I've been a paramedic for 20 years, I teach others to become EMTs and paramedics, I have various trauma specialty certifications, I teach others (doctors, PAs, nurses, paramedics) trauma specialty certification courses, and I have been a part of inadequate track safety crews. So I have a clue. I'm actually considering seeing if can do my PhD dissertation on safety equipment, safety crews, and fatal/debilitating crashes. I doubt it will fly, but I'm going to try.

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by ossuks:
767 this topic has been discussed before and everyone cares today but in a week its GOT TO RACE. I canceled a race one time because there was not proper safety equipment and got LAMBLATED on this message board because some did not get to race. I lost my job at USAC because I told Kevin Miller and his 1/2 million dollar salary that if USAC could not provide a peramedic at every event then he could find someone else to do my job. And he did. AND no one cared .....In 2 weeks most start to forget but family and they have to live with this for eternity.....There are very few that put safety first....IT cost me a job, I thought it would bring to the attention of the racing community (usac) that they were racing with sub par personal but no one cared....But, there are races coming up and we got to race weather we are fans or we are competitors we got to race.....well, almost all you will be there...not me...not anymore...I used to care and see where it got me...

You are exactly right on the time frame. I even know of ambulance companies that hire EMT's on the weekends to cover track gigs. Or my favorite 1 paramedic and 1 EMT and the paramedic is the only one allowed to drive. People do not look into things. They see an ambulance and sometime a fire truck setting in the infield and think things are good. I sure hope my post does not come off that I don't think safety equipment will save lives. Its is the mandate of some of it that is tough. Wearing faulty safety equipment can be more dangerous that wearing nothing at all.

Brownstown will have ambulance at no way out 40 and lucas oil shows but not at regular weekly shows

Re: Desoto Speedway safety
 

Originally Posted by sp6967:
who is going to regulate? I hope you don't mean some kind of government entity.

I don't know. What do you suggest? As far as I know, New Jersey is the only state whose race tracks are regulated by the state, and I have no experience as to how that works.