Too Fast
 

What should a racetrack do if when talking to different racing series trying to schedule events they tell you the drivers say it's too fast? Changing the track is not really viable

Which race track are you referring to?

Belleville High Banks

Belleville....."Balls to the wall"!!

Re: Too Fast
 

Find another series to talk to.... I thought growing up in racing all these years that was the idea..Go as fast as you can,,turn left,and repeat as needed.. The problem IMO is the people growing up in this sport these days need things perfect or they are off to find someone else to fund there fix..It is people like that, that help ruin places like Hartford or the old Clarks Motor Speedway..Instead of making track smaller/slower go do something else with your time.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by Wizard 05:
Find another series to talk to.... I thought growing up in racing all these years that was the idea..Go as fast as you can,,turn left,and repeat as needed.. The problem IMO is the people growing up in this sport these days need things perfect or they are off to find someone else to fund there fix..It is people like that, that help ruin places like Hartford or the old Clarks Motor Speedway..Instead of making track smaller/slower go do something else with your time.

Did you forget about Brian Clauson getting killed there?
Wouldn't you want it safer?

No one will ever forget BC.

USAC is attempting deal with the issue by going to the lighting system on the cars. Slowing cars or tracks down is not the answer.

Re: Too Fast
 

Nope didn't forget,,never will...But I'm not truly convinced that speed has/had much to do with it..VS how.. So are we then saying get rid of Winchester,Salem,Eldora,Knoxville, and on and on ?????? Should we only run flat 1/4mile or smaller ?

Re: Too Fast
 

Less water make the track dry and slick. Make the right rear tire smaller and harder.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by addictedtodirt:
No one will ever forget BC.

USAC is attempting deal with the issue by going to the lighting system on the cars. Slowing cars or tracks down is not the answer.

Anyone know when the USAC TracSAFE system will launch?

Every type of racecar is going WAY faster today, then in the 70's, 80's and 90's..

Putting lights on 2 or 3 of the 22 cars is not the answer either... in my opinion

Originally Posted by addictedtodirt:
No one will ever forget BC.

USAC is attempting deal with the issue by going to the lighting system on the cars. Slowing cars or tracks down is not the answer.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by cshuman:
Every type of racecar is going WAY faster today, then in the 70's, 80's and 90's..

So the racing is much better now than in the old 70's?

Re: Too Fast
 

josh burton got killed at Bloomington, is that track too big?

No, that wasn't my point at all DAD

Re: Too Fast
 

Restrictors...smaller tire idea (already mentioned)...&/or mandated PSI minimums; are all simple low cost solutions not too many like to recognize...if the series has wings, what about standing them up at a certain fixed angle so they slow straightway speed??? Higher weight rules (NOT so that we are bolting on LBS of led, but maybe just not skimping in certain areas...thicker panels in lower the "cockpit" area, etc...)...nerf bar/bumper thickness/size rules...etc...

Originally Posted by davidm:
Less water make the track dry and slick. Make the right rear tire smaller and harder.

Making big/ fast race tracks slick to the fence doesn't make them safer and a lot of times creates more chance for cars to collect each other. The big issue many times is vision. Whether it is the sun during the day (way worse with dust), lighting at night, or banking/ blind spots that create a delayed reaction. Eldora, TH, Port Royal all suck during the day due to sun and if dusty are way worse. Good track lighting, a quick flag men and multiple officials on the radio make a big difference.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by grader47:
What should a racetrack do if when talking to different racing series trying to schedule events they tell you the drivers say it's too fast? Changing the track is not really viable

People have different opinions on what makes it dangerous, but if the DRIVERS say its too fast, that's worth listening to....

Re: Too Fast
 

Change the racing surface to a different type of dirt.

We've done it at Western Springs Speedway in Auckland, New Zealand. Midgets are half a second a lap slower on the new surface on a 1/4 mile.

Re: Too Fast
 

I asked Bobby Grim one time if he thought Langhorne was too dangerous. He simply stated that no track was too dangerous. He said that the throttle in these things works both ways. A guy can let off if he wants. I don't think Mr. Grim ever let off though.

Re: Too Fast
 

Making the track slick will not only slow everyone down and make it a little safer, it generally makes the racing much better. Fast usually means freight train. So fast and boring. Slow and slick usually means passing and slide jobs galore.

Re: Too Fast
 

they tried dry some years back and it was a no show the real winner was the tire truck

In my opinoion the biggest problem with Belleville and midgets is its so hard on motors so it's hard to get cars to want to run there. Then they up the start pay and get a bunch of cars that are running 30mph slower just to get start money and that is dangerous. I don't know what you can do to fix it but a big track like that there is too big of a difference in a ecotech and a national car. Just my opinion

Re: Too Fast
 

The midgets are on the schedule in August, so my guess is they can't get sprint car groups to run.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by sp6967:
josh burton got killed at Bloomington, is that track too big?

I thought that was part failure, damaged in an earlier wreck? If I had the option to trade away these revered tracks, for even one of these guys, to have them back with us, I would without hesitation. I'd trade ALL the Bellevilles, the Winchesters, the Eldora's, the Knoxville's, the u-name-it's to get BC or Josh or anyone back. The notion that the throttle works two ways being the answer is absurd and demonstrates a complete devaluation of a man's life and a lack of understanding. We aren't risking our lives to cure a disease or to win freedom for oppressed people, its entertainment. Sure it's a passionate endeavor, but continuing to allow the sacrifice of others to go on wasted is unjustifiably wrong. Now I'm not advocating bulldozing per se, but if drivers are making a stand, for whatever reason then WE all should listen and do what's needed to improve the situation. If it's lighting then refuse to run until there is better lighting. If it's something else like making certain ultra light parts illegal, then we should do something. Otherwise, their ultimate sacrifice and all the tribute videos are an insulting waste, it's no different than throwing them on a pile of trash and walking away. To do nothing and dare say, "it's tradition", is disgusting. To idly watch young talent snuffed out over and over is unforgivable.

It doesn't have to be this way, it could be better, much better. Try harder.

Technology advancements will eventually overcome any limitations that are implemented. Look at NHRA. Cars were getting too fast and after they lost Kalita they shortened the track from 1320 to 1000. They are now running faster in 1000 than most were in 1320 a few years ago. Everyone who keeps saying to slicken the track are way off basis. Racing is an extreme sport, and the ultimate tragedy can unfortunately happen. This thing we love can bite you, but that's part of attraction. To me slick tracks = burt up tires, overheated brakes and over reved motors till stuff breaks. I personally have lost 3 motors in last couple years and it was never on tacky fast tracks.

Vision/reaction time is the biggest danger present in modern era racing.
(Improved) lighting, race control communication, etc. must be addressed. Incentives by some that have been personally affected by tragedy are being considered for implementation. I thank these folks for their unselfishness in light of tragedy. It is sincerely appreciated.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
I thought that was part failure, damaged in an earlier wreck? If I had the option to trade away these revered tracks, for even one of these guys, to have them back with us, I would without hesitation. I'd trade ALL the Bellevilles, the Winchesters, the Eldora's, the Knoxville's, the u-name-it's to get BC or Josh or anyone back. The notion that the throttle works two ways being the answer is absurd and demonstrates a complete devaluation of a man's life and a lack of understanding. We aren't risking our lives to cure a disease or to win freedom for oppressed people, its entertainment. Sure it's a passionate endeavor, but continuing to allow the sacrifice of others to go on wasted is unjustifiably wrong. Now I'm not advocating bulldozing per se, but if drivers are making a stand, for whatever reason then WE all should listen and do what's needed to improve the situation. If it's lighting then refuse to run until there is better lighting. If it's something else like making certain ultra light parts illegal, then we should do something. Otherwise, their ultimate sacrifice and all the tribute videos are an insulting waste, it's no different than throwing them on a pile of trash and walking away. To do nothing and dare say, "it's tradition", is disgusting. To idly watch young talent snuffed out over and over is unforgivable.

It doesn't have to be this way, it could be better, much better. Try harder.

Thank you!!!

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
I thought that was part failure, damaged in an earlier wreck? If I had the option to trade away these revered tracks, for even one of these guys, to have them back with us, I would without hesitation. I'd trade ALL the Bellevilles, the Winchesters, the Eldora's, the Knoxville's, the u-name-it's to get BC or Josh or anyone back. The notion that the throttle works two ways being the answer is absurd and demonstrates a complete devaluation of a man's life and a lack of understanding. We aren't risking our lives to cure a disease or to win freedom for oppressed people, its entertainment. Sure it's a passionate endeavor, but continuing to allow the sacrifice of others to go on wasted is unjustifiably wrong. Now I'm not advocating bulldozing per se, but if drivers are making a stand, for whatever reason then WE all should listen and do what's needed to improve the situation. If it's lighting then refuse to run until there is better lighting. If it's something else like making certain ultra light parts illegal, then we should do something. Otherwise, their ultimate sacrifice and all the tribute videos are an insulting waste, it's no different than throwing them on a pile of trash and walking away. To do nothing and dare say, "it's tradition", is disgusting. To idly watch young talent snuffed out over and over is unforgivable.

It doesn't have to be this way, it could be better, much better. Try harder.

but if it wasn't for these revered tracks you would have never known them at all.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by sp6967:
but if it wasn't for these revered tracks you would have never known them at all.

That is an unprovable argument. There are plenty of other tracks that provide outstanding racing w/o such a high fatality rate. Before you come back with somebody has died or been seriously injured at most every track, I know that, but in a lot of cases changes have been made to try and deal with those issues. Bottom line, there is room for improvement and leaving these men's ultimate sacrifice unanswered is horrific. A youtube video, although a nice gesture, it does NOT equal a man's life.

"History", "Tradition", "It takes balls", "It separates the men from the boys", "He died doing what he loves" are hollow cliche's, they don't bring back a son, or a father, or a husband, or a husband to be. It doesn't restore mobility to your limbs, it doesn't bring back your ability to freakin' feed yourself or got to the bathroom on your own. These sayings we so often use, they don't justify the unthinkable. The aftermath when things go wrong is far from glamorous or glorious, if you survive it can mean perpetual care in some forgotten nursing facility. No cheering crowds, no victory lane photos, just blank looking stares and inaudible groans and smells the turn your stomach. This needs to be fixed.

Re: Too Fast
 

Then why race at all? Just shut down the sport because it is not worth the risk. Crap luck was the difference between a concussion and a fatality at this years Chili Bowl. Why do you race? I want to be at my absolute limit in the car, that is what makes all the cost and effort worthwhile. Yes a sprinter could bite me, but the fact that sprinters are such beasts is why I race them. Otherwise I would be racing 600's on a 1/5 mile track, or racing late models.

.

Re: Too Fast? Possibly not...
 

Originally Posted by Rhody:
Then why race at all? Just shut down the sport because it is not worth the risk. Crap luck was the difference between a concussion and a fatality at this years Chili Bowl. Why do you race? I want to be at my absolute limit in the car, that is what makes all the cost and effort worthwhile. Yes a sprinter could bite me, but the fact that sprinters are such beasts is why I race them. Otherwise I would be racing 600's on a 1/5 mile track, or racing late models.

Risk will always exist, its adds spice to life. What I'm talking about is improving survivability and lowering the odds of serious injury, so you can more likely come back again next week, next month, next season. Pushing yourself to the limit is what racing is all about, definitely. The limit of traction, the limit of skill, the limit of your wallet:10:. Decreasing speeds is no guarantee of safety, limiting power doesn't guarantee survivability either. I'm not advocating limiting the cars in anyway, but some arena's could be better designed to allow for the higher terminal velocities. Perhaps some components are made a little too light. Better lighting and visibility. Better cage designs and materials. There are any number of things that could be improved to push the odds better in your favor.

You asked, "Why do I race?" I race for the thrill of competition. I race because I enjoy seeing things I've built and designed win races. I race because I like the comradery and brotherhood we enjoy as racers. I don't race to get a thrill from cheating death. I don't want to see a tribute video for you, I want to run into you at the track while you're teaching your grand kids about racing and getting them started. I want to live long enough to pass on what I've learned to the next generation. :6:

Re: Too Fast? Possibly not...
 

all the talk about safety and nobody does the obvious.

Re: Too Fast
 

Any track can bite you at any time. Every crash is different and the outcome unknown until it happens. Speed yes adds to that risk, but so does as a driver taking every precaution you can to make your car as safe as possible,that is partial up to the track and sanctioning bodies but also the driver. If you choice to race with minimal required safety equipment that is on the driver, if you as a driver feel a track is too fast don't run it. It is a reward vs risk situation which comes back to, do you as a driver feel as if you can control the risk enough to race that at that track that night.

Since we seem to be talking about Belleville in general I will share a couple stories I heard after we lost Bryan. One involves an owner mechanic, he tells me that hewent once in the past 10 years and as they were practicing or Qualifying and he said he looked up and said this if F'ing stupid and packed up his midgets and has not been back.

The other is a guy that was a regular in Midget and ran well with USAC in the 90's. He said he ran Belleville in the 90's once and said it was stupid fast and that the right front wheel would almost fit under the guardrail. He said that was the only time he ran there and had no desire to go back.

Closing rates and trying to stop a car on a track that fast has to be absolutely crazy. If a driver wants to race at a track like Belleville that is his or her choice or until the insurance company decides it is too much of a risk to insure a track that they feel is too much of a risk for them then they will race these tracks.

How do we slow them done I don't know, do we need to, me as a driver yes some of these track are getting too fast for the safety of the cars and the facility. Safer Barriers and taller better fencing is needed at many tracks.

Re: Too Fast
 

Originally Posted by hairracer44:
Any track can bite you at any time. Every crash is different and the outcome unknown until it happens. Speed yes adds to that risk, but so does as a driver taking every precaution you can to make your car as safe as possible,that is partial up to the track and sanctioning bodies but also the driver. If you choice to race with minimal required safety equipment that is on the driver, if you as a driver feel a track is too fast don't run it. It is a reward vs risk situation which comes back to, do you as a driver feel as if you can control the risk enough to race that at that track that night.

Since we seem to be talking about Belleville in general I will share a couple stories I heard after we lost Bryan. One involves an owner mechanic, he tells me that hewent once in the past 10 years and as they were practicing or Qualifying and he said he looked up and said this if F'ing stupid and packed up his midgets and has not been back.

The other is a guy that was a regular in Midget and ran well with USAC in the 90's. He said he ran Belleville in the 90's once and said it was stupid fast and that the right front wheel would almost fit under the guardrail. He said that was the only time he ran there and had no desire to go back.

Closing rates and trying to stop a car on a track that fast has to be absolutely crazy. If a driver wants to race at a track like Belleville that is his or her choice or until the insurance company decides it is too much of a risk to insure a track that they feel is too much of a risk for them then they will race these tracks.

How do we slow them done I don't know, do we need to, me as a driver yes some of these track are getting too fast for the safety of the cars and the facility. Safer Barriers and taller better fencing is needed at many tracks.

You make some very good points. Are there more serious injuries involving midgets than sprints? Or is that just perception?

.

Originally Posted by revjimk:
Did you forget about Brian Clauson getting killed there?
Wouldn't you want it safer?

Better not go to Salem, Winchester, Terre Haute, IMS, Bloomington, Putnamville, Eldora, etc... all have had fatalities. I suggest you try golf or tennis, much safer!

Bob

To answer the original question, what most places are doing is cutting half miles down to 3/8. Or, you could remove more banking. I hate either idea. The problem I see is today's race cars are too hooked up and hard on engines which are built too light. Simple rules could be made to cure those problems yet no one does it.

Belleville is a track I grew up going to. Went to the Nationals for almost 20 years. I'll be honest, after BC's death last year I will never look at that track and that race the same way again. The reality, though, is it can happen at any track at any time, whether it's a fast half mile, or a bull ring quarter mile. BC was the first death at Belleville in 25 years. Safety has come a long way, but freak accidents can still happen.