D2 Midgets and Wings
 

I was always wondering why no lightning sprint series allows D2 midgets like Ecotech and Ford focus midgets to put wing spuds on and run wings with lightning sprints? I've asked around but never got a answer so I figured I'd ask here. This is going to be I think my 4th or 5th year running a Lightning sprint which is 90% of the time at Waynesfield and didn't run with a D2 midget until 2016 but what I seen is the Lightning sprints 90% of the time around here beat the midgets. I'm guessing and been told it is because they have more weight and power then us and can't get it to the ground as good as us lightning sprints so would the wings make them faster then us or be about identical? Just a question I always wondered.

Are you suggesting letting the D2 midgets run wings against non-wing lightening sprints?
This may get good. 🍿🍿🍿

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

No that would be horrible i'm saying let D2 midgets put wings on and run with the Winged lightning sprints. Since some series lets the D2 run when they run the lightning sprints wingless just seeing why they dont let the midget put wings on for winged races.

Thanks.....my bad

Because wings belong on airplanes not race cars

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I agree I can't stand racing with a wing but it would give D2 midget guys a chance to race more without traveling to D2 series races.

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My guess would be mini sprints have fuller fields, D2 not so much.

Always with the slamming on winged cars!

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

I think (and this is just my interpretation of the original post) that what he's suggesting, if it were to actually work would do nothing more than fill out the already substantial field of the lightning sprints even more. As it then be adding those who have a D2 midget to the car count, verses only lighting sprints.

I don't feel like he's suggesting that the tracks start booking winged D2 shows in place of the winged lighting sprints(that'd just be ridiculous). My one concern would be that the D2 cars would need a push start, correct? I think for tracks that's one of the draws of the lighting sprint is that they're self starting. Thus the show is usually more efficient in the instance of a red flag, instead of having to push off the entire field like they do with regular sprints and midgets, the lighting sprints can just hit the starter and throw the car in gear, and away we go.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Yes Chris, we all know how you feel about wings. I prefer mine with some Asian Zing sauce from Bdubs on them though.

Just FYI Fish,
In it's very first organized year, the D2 cars averaged 22 at Lincoln and 20 at Jacksonville. The high count being 29 at Lincoln, and the low of 12 also at Lincoln.
To put some perspective on that: Lincoln's average Modified count was 16, and their Pro Late Model count was 15.
I don't know IMRA's totals other than they always drew well at Spoon River, enough in fact for Spoon River to bump up the D2 purse for this year.... I think their highest car count was 31??

Now in Indiana it's been a bit slower, but looks like it will pick up some this year. With that said, D2 cars at Montpelier consistently were half, and sometimes more than half of the field.
In response to the initial post, i think most (read that most, not all.... NEMA), that get into Midget racing, are not into running a wing. If they were, there are plenty of other options out there to do so.

The Waynesfield group allows D2 when they run non wing, and I hope that MMSA in Indiana would someday do the same. Andy's group (MMSA) is very strong as it is, but I doubt promoters would be horribly upset with the spike in car count at the non wing shows. :)

To be very blunt here I don't understand this d2 stuff. I mean it's like trying to come up with a way that people can run a low budget car .. isn't that what local tracks are for ... if you can't run usac or power I just hit the local tracks and run.. if you can't afford to run a midget and I do mean real midget! Than run a real lightning sprint! That's the only two classes there should be midgets and lightning sprints ... period and niether should run with or against one another period! I know this will get a lot of arguing but I'm sorry if you can't Affford a real midget than get a lightning sprint and honestly non wing sprint cars are cheaper to run than a midget is anyway so go do that. ruining the sport by separating the cars ...

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

With just a minimal change to the National Midget Rule book, Many of the newer 4 valve Automotive Engines have the potential designed into them to be very competitive with the very expensive purpose built Midget Motors. I know of one individual out west that claims his Hayabusa chain drive Midget was so competitive with the national motors that they outlawed him.

Not that a stock Hayabusa is 30% over the D2 displacement limit or anything.

My old man always says never let facts get in the way of a good story.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

The Big Zuk was in the discussions the first rules meetings and would have made a very competitive engine for the class even if it had to pull 200 pounds more weight. Point being that motor with a good car and driver could give the National Midgets a run for the money, and is be a lot cheaper to race. The D2 rules chose to promote a motor no longer in production forcing racers to rebuild (Expensive) high mileage motors thus raising the cost of racing. Now at Montpelier the Zuke is legal a much better idea in my way of thinking.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Would a ZX14 be legal at Montpelier?

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

yep should be no problem there.

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:deadhorse::15::14::20:

Exactly puppy dog, if I wanted to watch slot cars go around the track is pull out my AFX set. Pull the tin foil off n learn some throttle control.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Not very hard to understand, people are trying to up car counts by trying to get some cars out of the garage and onto the track.
I see in no way how any of this hurts the sport.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

DAD, you know how it pains me to agree with you, but I'm like you, when this class was being formulated, it led me to believe it was going to be as you described, a sort of "stock appearing" class of engines allowed, no National engine stuff, just something you could build yourself, without spending a boatload on a National level MOPAR, or whatever, now it's turned into a "Jasper rebuilt" class, and here I set, with about $1500.00-$2000.00 in a good, low buck engine, 4 valve, twin cam, popup pistons, Crane cams, Carrillo type rods, w ARP bolts, a bit of head work, and Hilborn Injection, not unlike what is used on the SpeedSTR engine, now I got no where to run it, I've seen the so called D2 cars run, not bad, but not what I'd prefer, I guess it is, what it is, and I'll get over it, unlike some, but I just feel it "coulda been" a step up, instead af a lateral move, for the money involved in building HP, with stock specs, it's like blue printing a 5hp Briggs, up to 12-18hp, it really gets expensive, just doesn't align for me. (and I ain't whining, and it ain't a Colt engine either) but it's reliable, and AM parts are cheap as stock parts. Bob

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Ahhhh, there's ole whoa is me Bob, back again on another D2 thread to spew his B.S. on a subject that he just loves to say is all wrong, bought some old P.O.S. one off something or other before any rules had been written down, then blames rules makers for not including his one off, and even if they did include it, he would find some other reason to hate, and never actually take his car out of the garage.

So again, to anyone new here that maybe interested in D2 Midget racing, please pay no attention to this guy (and most of the time DAD too). For some reason, if a D2 post comes up, he always has to jump in with garbage that is completely out of touch with the reality of what D2 racing is. He is just a guy who likes to tell people that he is a race car owner/driver/or whatever to sound all important. When in reality he is just a wanna be trying to get attention. And I will continue to be his reality check.

Now for anyone who wants the truth about D2 racing, feel free to contact me, or one of the Ray's on 2.4 Midget racing in Sun Prarie land. Thank you :D

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Finally, someone with all the answers and the truth, wow! :3:

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Hey Bob

If you do not agree with some type of people it is best to keep your trap shut>>just as they keep their minds shut. They after all are the only people that count, they have all the answers and you should get in line.

The racers up at Montpelier would be glad for you and your car to race with them I bet. Their rules seem to be working pretty good. So good in fact that D2 Sanctioning bodies are asking if they can run with them even if there are cars in the race that do not meet strict D2 rules. Then there is the pesky fact that that them darned MC cars seem to slip in and win way too many races with virtually stock motors right off the bike. Like TQ's they seemed to have put their faith in engines that are no longer in production like the TQ's did with the Crosley or 750 Honda. What does that do to the cost of racing? There are motors coming out right now that could and would race well with the high priced D2 tuner motors and MC motors. Some might be a bit too big and some might be a bit too small to meet their rules. I would like to see a younger person try one of these motors up a Montpelier, where they do still lookout for the back yard racer.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

WHAT??? Just another example of who's out of touch with reality.
You guys should have your own message board... Then you can feel even more important while continually doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the sport except spew negative comments about everything D2. You can continue to send out all that expertise all the while not actually racing in a division (or any division for that matter) you so clearly do not understand in the slightest.

We can call your new message board A.T.N.A. : All Talk (mostly negative) No Action

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

If powered by arrogance I know for sure who would have the fastest car.

It's called knowledge pal, not arrogance. Arrogance would be more related to your post.
And sense arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand, you can be the third member of their new message board.

It's been the same people spreading their negative bile every chance they get when someone mentions D2, and I'm over it. Sorry I'm not pc. Sorry I'm not sitting here being quiet about it. I'm done with these same people tearing down something with absolutely no reason, and no dog in the fight.
Am I passionate about D2? Yup. And it's almost like the same bullies picking on my little sister over and over again. And there reasons for doing so are just not in any basis of reality.

As mentioned, D2 is strong in Illinois, with slower growth in Indiana. And people who look to this message board when researching a possible move to D2 end up having to read these same guys spewing there same old out of touch negatives about it.
I'm not the shell answer man, but i want to make sure that anyone that might be interested in this form of racing, does not pay attention to these same over and over again whiners with some out of touch agenda.

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sad to see senior citizens getting harassed on an internet board, not helping D2's reputation any :7:

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And just what makes it's reputation bad? Could it be people like this constantly bashing it and spreading the disease??
I mean if the sponsor (Leaders Edge) of the Montpelier Midget Series has a new D2 Midget for this year, how bad can it be??

Here is something you said on 7/8/15, and this speaks volumes as to why D2 is as strong as it has been in just it's first year, and will only get bigger.
You said: "National midgets should be allowed to compete (with D2) (maybe with a spec RR tire or something). The national midgets make up 95% of the midget population already, so they would help car counts shoot through the roof. It's working great for Montpelier..."

Now I'm not trying to bury you on something you said a year and a half ago, but there seems to be this misnomer about Montpelier and their big Midget success.
This past year, their average car count was 20.75 (21). Their highest being 24, and the lowest was 15 (twice). Now that's an ok average, but it's not the stellar count that everyone seems to carry on about? AND... And this is a BIG AND... If it wasn't for the 20.75 car count average being filled out by half, and sometimes more than half, by D2 cars, there most likely wouldn't be a Montpelier Midget division this coming year. (Be sure to read that part again DAD)

And FYI, I am a card carrying AARP member myself.

Not sure your connection with tqs,but apparently not very close.yes,they've been using the Honda 750 for several years.it was still pretty affordable to run.they've allowed these newer,high rpm engines,you speak of,to run and guess what....it ran the cost up and now more cars will be parked or sold off!the cost to convert to the "new engine"is enough that a guy can buy a higher level class car and race something different and faster.so is it for the good of the participants,or a select few.if these series keep driving the costs up,then car counts will continue to drop.

Seriously folks, I'm just trying to counter this garbage, usually from the same people, with facts.

Trust me, i know it's tiresome. But when i mention the fact that one track (spoon river) has already bumped up the D2 purse after just one year, good things are happening here. Yet just a few posts later someone says how bad D2's reputation is?????

Can't fathom why some promoters blame social media for the downfall of their operations. :)

OK.. With all that being said.. What would be wrong with the current D2 engine rules (auto) and the current lighting sprint rules (moto) being joined for both winged and non winged?

Winged could be marketed as lightning sprints.. Wingless could be thunder midgets.

No confusion.. More cars.. More choices, less cookie cutter.. Easy for everyone to understand..

I hate to keep bashing on the wing fans, but putting a wing on anything with less than 8 cylinders is absurd, especially on a D2 car. Might as well drive around with your foot on the brake, you don't have the HP to push it thru the wind.
I don't understand why you need the help of a wing to get around the track on a micro, lightning, D2 ect.

Re: D2 Midgets and Wings?
 

Every D2 post here seems to turn out like this.