Nascar announcement.
 

Not really a nascar fan , but you have to admit the segment format is something they should have done years ago.No more three hour snooze fests until the last pit stop.I am actually a bit excited about the Nascar season starting.

Still dont plan on watching Nascar.IMO they could have saved us all some brain cells by shortening the races and limiting tires.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

If they want segments why don't they just do heat races, B mains and an A main just like just about any short track. Don't start every car that shows up limit it to 25 or maybe 30 or so on a bigger track. Never mind that would make too much sense and we are talking about NASCAR. Bring on some local open wheel racing go out and support your local track and let NASCAR play their silly games.

I have a lot of friends who make their livelihood with Nicecar, past and present, some I have worked with, and some I have raced with over the years, some are drivers, some are crew chiefs, some are crew members, in other words, in all phases of the performance, several owners have been to my shop, and while I am aware of the amount of money it takes to make a show out of it, I have to agree I'd like to see shorter races, I know that will never happen, but there are a lot of good people in the orchestra, who get paid a good bunch of money, to put on this long, long time, of putting on this show, I doubt it will ever change, or that I will ever not look forward to watching just a little of it, just because my friends work so hard to do it, plus, I have come to look forward to the nap that is always welcome and included, if I did that at any other race, I can't imagine how much heat I'd generate! Bob

Divide the cars into two groups (even number qualifiers and uneven numbered qualifiers). Run two 200 miles races, take the top 10 from each and run a 100 mile race for the event win.

No one really cares, do they?

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

I certainly don't care one bit what they do! My hero's have all retired and I don't watch Napcar anymore! They ruined it years ago!

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

The way I see it, NASCAR is dying. They're constantly changing their rules whether it's the race format, points/playoff system, cars, penalties, etc. Their races are long and boring and obviously manipulated. Their ticket sales are down, their ratings are falling every week and more sponsors are leaving the the sport than joining it, and the ones that are joining are bringing less money to the table than their predecessors. Hell, their purses aren't even public anymore and I don't think there is any question why.

That said, more than ever we need to market our sport. It's obvious that a vast number of traditional NASCAR fans are leaving that series behind and I think that trend will continue. If there were ever a time that USAC and other dirt series could attract new fans and show them what real racing is, now would be the opportune time. That also goes for other open wheel series such as IndyCar or Formula 1.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

The cool thing about NASCAR right now is a lot of short track are getting nice aluminum stands at a bargain.

I would like to see Indycar make a comeback, the racing has been much better in the last few years! I personally think if some of the fans who have left Nascrap in the last few years would give Indycar a chance (not to mention USAC and all the local tracks), I think local short track racing could make a resurgence.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

David, I think my wife even noticed that, how many sections they had covered, so to the casual observer, maybe they wouldn't notice, it just makes it more evident when they try to hide it, Bristol and Martinsville, and the first at Daytona are the only one's even close to a "large" crowed, I hate to see it doing this, because in my mind, the people even interested in racing anymore, are getting fewer and fewer, yes, we might have a lot of fans on this forum, but even it is getting drawn down, the one's that are here want more, but they aren't putting up the money to race, ticket sales won't buy squat, sponsors and enthusiasts who help out do! And, I don't blame Cousin Carl for stepping away, the ensuing rush to find something else may be overwhelming! Bob

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by Nate:
The way I see it, NASCAR is dying. They're constantly changing their rules whether it's the race format, points/playoff system, cars, penalties, etc. Their races are long and boring and obviously manipulated. Their ticket sales are down, their ratings are falling every week and more sponsors are leaving the the sport than joining it, and the ones that are joining are bringing less money to the table than their predecessors. Hell, their purses aren't even public anymore and I don't think there is any question why.

That said, more than ever we need to market our sport. It's obvious that a vast number of traditional NASCAR fans are leaving that series behind and I think that trend will continue. If there were ever a time that USAC and other dirt series could attract new fans and show them what real racing is, now would be the opportune time. That also goes for other open wheel series such as IndyCar or Formula 1.

Whereas I am not one for having a NASCAR thread on IOW.com, you make a really good point here, Nate. Thanks for taking this thread in that direction.

When open wheel racing had their split here in the States, back in the mid-90s, NASCAR took off. Whether it was Tony George making his moves, or the old CART management squandering all of the stored revenue they had, so many open wheel fans were alienated one way or another.

Now the shoe is possibly on the other foot. NASCAR is losing fans by the boat load. It is time for open wheel, both big pavement (F1, IndyCars) and short tracking (dirt sprints) to make THEIR move and pitch THEIR products to these disgruntled NASCAR fans.

Once again, point well made, Nate. :6:

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

The problem Indy cars have is one cool track, race then the rest of the year is street-road races that know one watches. If you like it or not, you need to be thinking about nascar, They are the "leader" lol of racing. The times are changing. People stay at home and play online games, post on facebook, twitter and think the rest of the world is following their every move. Street rod, cars shows have the same problem. It looks like retirement bus unloaded a casino group by mistake, at most short tracks now of days.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

I want to preface this post by saying our first love always was and always will be the wingless dirt open wheel cars. :27:

However, there was a day when NASCAR occupied a very large part of our racing interest. From 1985 until around 2002 we never missed a February Speedweeks in Daytona Beach. Largely because my wife's immediate family lived close enough to DIS that on a clear quiet day we could hear the racecars.

We looked forward to Daytona like a child looks forward to Christmas. What happened? Us, like so many others were priced out of enjoying the events. First we eliminated the 500 and only went to the Thursday qualifiers and the Saturday 300 miler. But, at some point they bundled the tickets in such a way as to force us to buy tickets that we didn't want just to be able to get the tickets to the events that we wanted to attend. Local restaurants, bars and especially hotels went into gouge mode. The bottom line was that we, along with so many others, couldn't have hundreds of dollars worth of fun. Instead we'd take the money we previously spent on going to the 500 and go to the Keys for a few days and felt much better about the cost.

I DO NOT want NASCAR to die but I also understand why their crowds and TV viewership has diminished. They pretty much did it to themselves. They (NASCAR) catered to a demographic that had no intentions of staying with them long term. NASCAR capitulated to their every whim to the point that now, someone like myself, doesn't recognize the product and the fair weather fans are long gone and they ain't ever coming back! NASCAR looks to be left holding the bag. So, at Daytona they tear out the backstretch stands and build new ones in the tri-oval that effectively eliminate thousand of seats and the prices go even higher. Michigan has eliminated tens of thousands of seats and Bristol looks deserted when less than 10 years ago it was the toughest ticket in racing.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by chop:
It looks like retirement bus unloaded a casino group by mistake, at most short tracks now of days.

:5:

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by david mitchell:
Not really a nascar fan , but you have to admit the segment format is something they should have done years ago.No more three hour snooze fests until the last pit stop.I am actually a bit excited about the Nascar season starting.

I disagree, the desperate attempts of NAPCAR to emulate, "Stick & Ball" sports by creating a pseudo, "Playoffs" only further demeaned their product. This is why with all their manipulations(ie, Lucky Dogs, Race to the Chase and countdown to checkers) to create drama have only caused viewership and track attendance to continue to decline. To me what went wrong was over media saturation, with 2 hour pre-race babblings, weekly "reality style" shows that go "way-way" behind the scenes with drivers, so that you know everything about them down to there toothpaste preferences and underwear style. A little mystery goes a long way(think lingerie) in providing interest, revealing everything, all the time, can get boring... What use to be a serious sport is now covered by an electronic ground hog and too often repeated tag lines, "Boogity, Boogity, Boogity" or "Let's pull those belts tight, ONE MORE TIME!" When I was coming up(70's & 80's) the racing had drama organically; tires blew, engines blew, people got mad and threw punches, cars spun out, and collected each other on a regular basis, survival was the first rule. Now the tires have inner liners so they can drive back to the pits. The engines are now so exotic and a millennia away from anything stock that they seldom expire. The downforce generated by the FDAU(Face Down A$$ Up) setups employed make the cars where any half wit "Spokes Model" can drive them at a fairly fast pace, so no need for actual driving talent. They have succeeded in sanitizing the sport to its lowest common denominator, dull. Its nothing but a moving reality show with what appears on occasion to have a scripted or at least upper level desired outcome. Boo! Hiss!

I remember when it was exciting just to catch a glimpse of an unlettered car in daytona for testing, in a magazine. NASCAR needs to get dressed, clean up and try and reclaim some dignity. Screw the drive for diversity BS, I want the 43(YES, 43) best most rugged, foul mouthed, cigarette smoking, tobacco chewing, hairy and hungover drivers you can assemble, not spokes models who get manicures and have teeth caps and handlers...
The fat lady isn't just warming up, she's nearly done with the final chorus.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by superstock30:
I would like to see Indycar make a comeback, the racing has been much better in the last few years! I personally think if some of the fans who have left Nascrap in the last few years would give Indycar a chance (not to mention USAC and all the local tracks), I think local short track racing could make a resurgence.

I left Nascar and DLM to a certain degree recently, but INDY car racing is uninspiring to watch and to me has zero link to open wheel short track stuff. I have to admit when the IRL formed in the 90's and focused on ovals I thought that was a smart move and I actually watched some of it, but they got lost and ran off course. The problem is the cars I think, that and foreign drivers no one ever heard of "buying rides". I would rather see USAC put more emphasis on "Silver Crown" or that "Gold Crown" style cars that was put forth, but not a mid engine low buck F1 look-a-like car with funny looking rear wheel bumper pods. America is oval track racing and V8's, Indy is an oval, we like these things, so let's do it our way and not be ashamed of being, AMERICAN.:22:

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by ISF:
I want to preface this post by saying our first love always was and always will be the wingless dirt open wheel cars. :27:

However, there was a day when NASCAR occupied a very large part of our racing interest. From 1985 until around 2002 we never missed a February Speedweeks in Daytona Beach. Largely because my wife's immediate family lived close enough to DIS that on a clear quiet day we could hear the racecars.

We looked forward to Daytona like a child looks forward to Christmas. What happened? Us, like so many others were priced out of enjoying the events. First we eliminated the 500 and only went to the Thursday qualifiers and the Saturday 300 miler. But, at some point they bundled the tickets in such a way as to force us to buy tickets that we didn't want just to be able to get the tickets to the events that we wanted to attend. Local restaurants, bars and especially hotels went into gouge mode. The bottom line was that we, along with so many others, couldn't have hundreds of dollars worth of fun. Instead we'd take the money we previously spent on going to the 500 and go to the Keys for a few days and felt much better about the cost.

I DO NOT want NASCAR to die but I also understand why their crowds and TV viewership has diminished. They pretty much did it to themselves. They (NASCAR) catered to a demographic that had no intentions of staying with them long term. NASCAR capitulated to their every whim to the point that now, someone like myself, doesn't recognize the product and the fair weather fans are long gone and they ain't ever coming back! NASCAR looks to be left holding the bag. So, at Daytona they tear out the backstretch stands and build new ones in the tri-oval that effectively eliminate thousand of seats and the prices go even higher. Michigan has eliminated tens of thousands of seats and Bristol looks deserted when less than 10 years ago it was the toughest ticket in racing.

Your assessment is spot on. I would also add that while the prices were going thru the roof, the relative quality of the product was going down. What happens if your favorite steakhouse keeps charging more as the quality of meat goes down. You find somewhere else to eat.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Sounds like a gimmick, desperation move to me.
NASCAR started to lose it when they stopped racing actual production cars that fans could identify with. But Detroit doesn't make them any more. Who wants to watch a bunch of front wheel drive Toyotas & Hondas racing?
Indy cars are boring to me also. Europeans driving hi-tech space ships
I'll stick to dirt.....

You all have some great observations of NASCAR, and its problems. I live in the Daytona area and witnessed the rebuild of the Speedway from a race track to a "stadium". And I have toured that stadium. It is a first class, high end, beautiful facility, but I don't believe that was all done for the race fan. NASCAR too, sees the writing on the wall. They have already hosted a large country music show at the "Stadium", and am sure there will many more non racing events held at the "stadium". And FYI, on the property across from the stadium, the Frances have partnered with developers, banks, etc. to build One Daytona, a mega complex of condos, hotels, shops, 14 screen cinema , Outdoor World, etc. And they have a casino on the Kansas property. They too see the future - and it doesn't look like racing is it, at least long term.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Looks like Robin Miller is onboard with this topic, too:

NASCAR's changes are great - for IndyCar
Wednesday, 25 January 2017
Robin Miller

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...at-for-indycar

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
Screw the drive for diversity BS, I want the 43(YES, 43) best most rugged, foul mouthed, cigarette smoking, tobacco chewing, hairy and hungover drivers you can assemble, not spokes models.

Where are you going to find these drivers? Certainly not from the USAC sprint & midget ranks. You might be describing Billy Bob redneck hornet driver at some podunk stock car track, but it sure doesn't sound like a description of Kyle Larson, Ricky Stenhouse, Kasey Kahne, Ryan Newman, Chase Briscoe or any other short track open wheel driver in NASCAR.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
I disagree, the desperate attempts of NAPCAR to emulate, "Stick & Ball" sports by creating a pseudo, "Playoffs" only further demeaned their product. This is why with all their manipulations(ie, Lucky Dogs, Race to the Chase and countdown to checkers) to create drama have only caused viewership and track attendance to continue to decline. To me what went wrong was over media saturation, with 2 hour pre-race babblings, weekly "reality style" shows that go "way-way" behind the scenes with drivers, so that you know everything about them down to there toothpaste preferences and underwear style. A little mystery goes a long way(think lingerie) in providing interest, revealing everything, all the time, can get boring... What use to be a serious sport is now covered by an electronic ground hog and too often repeated tag lines, "Boogity, Boogity, Boogity" or "Let's pull those belts tight, ONE MORE TIME!"

I got a good laugh out of this one. But you are right.

Also, lets not forget that the series itself is not competitive. Little stat I read yesterday. In the past 80 races, 77 have been won by either a Penske, Stewart-Haas, Gibbs, or Hendrick car. That equals 14 cars...that means the other 26 might as well just pack it up because you've got a snowball's chance in hell of winning. The article said that this format will somehow change that? I can't see how...

USAC, by comparison is far more competitive. I believe the national sprints had 20 winners this past year? Richie or Spridge could probably say for certain. Just look at Indiana Sprint Week, 7 different winners over 7 of the toughest nights in motorsports. TRASHCAR didn't have 7 different winners last year until they reached their "All-Star Break".

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe:
Where are you going to find these drivers? Certainly not from the USAC sprint & midget ranks. You might be describing Billy Bob redneck hornet driver at some podunk stock car track, but it sure doesn't sound like a description of Kyle Larson, Ricky Stenhouse, Kasey Kahne, Ryan Newman, Chase Briscoe or any other short track open wheel driver in NASCAR.

Robert Bell comes to mind. They don't all have to come from USAC, the diversity we need is whether your from "Dirt, Asphalt or Open Wheel" NOT, "who's your Daddy? They don't all need to be fresh faced pimpled up kids, throw in some middle aged treacherous types, to scare the young folks. I'm not saying Robert Bell is any of those qualities I mentioned, but any man dedicated enough to build a car in his living room, deserves a shot.:9:

Nate, during the 2016 USAC sprint season four drivers accounted for over 46% of the feature wins.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe:
Nate, during the 2016 USAC sprint season four drivers accounted for over 46% of the feature wins.

And of those four drivers how many finished in the Top 5 in points. I'd imagine Windom is one of those four. I'd bet none of the others are. It's a competitive series because you have to be consistent, wins don't always equate to a championship.

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Granted, Bryan had the most wins of anyone last year but he wasn't running the entire schedule either so he wouldn't have been up there in the top. Ballou would have finished towards the top had he not gotten hurt.

Not trying to argue. I'm just saying that in 45 races there were 20 winners. That's pretty good. NASCAR by comparison had 14 winners (including special events) over 41 races.

But what I see wrong with the way NASCAR handles business is the consistency that Brady Bacon showed last year in USAC doesn't equate to a championship by NASCAR standards. "He didn't win enough"

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Welcome to Nascar, Where the points mean absolutely nothing, But you can't run with us unless you have them from last year and we reset the whole works to screw consistency for a gimmick.

Yes, Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship and so was Gordon TWICE under the playoff format, So was Carl Edwards.


I remember either Petty or Earnhardt saying they won seven championships under seven different formats. Yet non of them eliminated 200-300pt leads over tenth place guy and put him just 30pts behind.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Two more drivers I thought of that would fit the bill from USAC, Dave Darland and Robert Ballou. Cagey veteran and a Wild card in a plain white car with a black rear bumper. Ditch the pseudo diversity BS, its a sham and promotes race and gender over talent.
1) Shorten the races to 100 laps,
2) Draw and run 25 lap heats and Run C and B-mains,
3) Stock block & heads from a truck engine regardless of manufacturers design. No restrictor plates. 8 inch max width on tires.
4) Only 30 best start the feature, no provisionals, no special consideration, no promoters choice.
5) No cautions for anything but a disabled vehicle or fire, no competition yellows, no radios, no mirrors.
6) No spoilers, No bumps, No sway bars, No belted radials bias ply only.
7) Any suspension design front/rear, no independent rears.

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Welcome to Nascar, Where the points mean absolutely nothing, But you can't run with us unless you have them from last year and we reset the whole works to screw consistency for a gimmick.

Yes, Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship and so was Gordon TWICE under the playoff format, So was Carl Edwards.


I remember either Petty or Earnhardt saying they won seven championships under seven different formats. Yet non of them eliminated 200-300pt leads over tenth place guy and put him just 30pts behind.

Chuck, if I read you right, you're abdicating "points" matter, and nothing else, I would agree with that, makes it much simpler for the drivers, they can figure where they need to be, while they are making laps, till the laps run out, I'd support that! Hell Yes! Bob

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
Two more drivers I thought of that would fit the bill from USAC, Dave Darland and Robert Ballou. Cagey veteran and a Wild card in a plain white car with a black rear bumper. Ditch the pseudo diversity BS, its a sham and promotes race and gender over talent.
1) Shorten the races to 100 laps,
2) Draw and run 25 lap heats and Run C and B-mains,
3) Stock block & heads from a truck engine regardless of manufacturers design. No restrictor plates. 8 inch max width on tires.
4) Only 30 best start the feature, no provisionals, no special consideration, no promoters choice.
5) No cautions for anything but a disabled vehicle or fire, no competition yellows, no radios, no mirrors.
6) No spoilers, No bumps, No sway bars, No belted radials bias ply only.
7) Any suspension design front/rear, no independent rears.

No pitstops under caution

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Come on guys 2 whole days and nobody else has seen how revolutionary this idea is when put into the big picture...follow me here and tell me who doesn't think we can use this to change the entire world...

Why don't we push for hard firm laws worldwide that state we must now break up every workday or every class period in school into 3 segments....

And as long as you are present and/or actually doing something at the end of each of the first 2 segments you get a bonus... 5% of your daily wage bonus per segment...or 5% of the grade points available that day per segment.

We are already being paid to be there and be doing something, but provided we can simply adjust the timing of our bathroom breaks to insure that we are where we should be at 2 specific ticks of the clock each day we get a 10% bonus.

Heck...at any sporting event at the end of each quarter, inning or period lets give the team in the lead 2 more points for doing nothing beyond what they're paid to do.

Heck.... break any day into segments... if I end up in the checkout line at the grocery store at the end of a segment they owe me 5% more stuff for no reason other than a specific tick of the clock.. or if I just happen to be pumping gas when magictime comes the pump will either knock 5% off my total or squirt another 5% in for free.

When you really start thinking about it this shot in the dark NASCAR drama gimmick idea could be the very thing that transforms our society into the PC, non offensive, trophies for everybody, free everything for everybody, unicorns and rainbows world that a bunch of people have been pushing hard for the last 10-20 years.

MIKE HELTON FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020.... BRIAN FRANCE FOR EMPORER OF THE WORLD ASAP..... Boogity Boogity Boogity Lets change the world boys

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

I think there is another big area they are missing. NASCAR needs to reward bonus points for crashes. Since these hi-lites are so widely used to market the series.

Hitting the wall gets 5 bonus points.
A flip gets you 10.
If you cause the "Big One" you get 10 plus one for each car you also collect.
Flip, catch fire while causing the "Big One" on the last lap while crossing the finish line gets you right into the final championship race. :D

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by davidm:
I think there is another big area they are missing. NASCAR needs to reward bonus points for crashes. Since these hi-lites are so widely used to market the series.

Hitting the wall gets 5 bonus points.
A flip gets you 10.
If you cause the "Big One" you get 10 plus one for each car you also collect.
Flip, catch fire while causing the "Big One" on the last lap while crossing the finish line gets you right into the final championship race. :D

And if you win the thing after having done all that , they automatically made you the champ.:17:

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

Originally Posted by darnall:
Come on guys 2 whole days and nobody else has seen how revolutionary this idea is when put into the big picture...follow me here and tell me who doesn't think we can use this to change the entire world...

Why don't we push for hard firm laws worldwide that state we must now break up every workday or every class period in school into 3 segments....

And as long as you are present and/or actually doing something at the end of each of the first 2 segments you get a bonus... 5% of your daily wage bonus per segment...or 5% of the grade points available that day per segment.

We are already being paid to be there and be doing something, but provided we can simply adjust the timing of our bathroom breaks to insure that we are where we should be at 2 specific ticks of the clock each day we get a 10% bonus.

Heck...at any sporting event at the end of each quarter, inning or period lets give the team in the lead 2 more points for doing nothing beyond what they're paid to do.

Heck.... break any day into segments... if I end up in the checkout line at the grocery store at the end of a segment they owe me 5% more stuff for no reason other than a specific tick of the clock.. or if I just happen to be pumping gas when magictime comes the pump will either knock 5% off my total or squirt another 5% in for free.

When you really start thinking about it this shot in the dark NASCAR drama gimmick idea could be the very thing that transforms our society into the PC, non offensive, trophies for everybody, free everything for everybody, unicorns and rainbows world that a bunch of people have been pushing hard for the last 10-20 years.

MIKE HELTON FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020.... BRIAN FRANCE FOR EMPORER OF THE WORLD ASAP..... Boogity Boogity Boogity Lets change the world boys

You had me worried at first,:18: then the sarcasm kicked in:5:

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

I never noticed any "sarcasm", ever in anything Darnall pecks! Bob:10:

Re: Nascar announcement.
 

As an open wheel fan (midgets, sprints, silver crown, mini-sprints) I think NASCAR is getting to be like baseball. I love statistics and baseball is full of them. NASCAR is good for seeing a driver who you had the chance to talk to in person at Belleville or your local dirt track make it to the big time on TV. The racing itself can be good at times and boring at times, but the stats are interesting. Who won how many times at a certain track, who won from the farthest back,etc. Did your former open wheel dirt driver show the world that driving a midget sharpened him for a NASCAR career? But then you don't have to watch a 500 mile race to be able to keep the stats. But you can if you want to. It is your choice, pick and choose as you like.