generational question
 

I have been reading the responses to my original question about the Silver Crown Cars and the fantasy race at Terre Haute. Something strikes me as very strange and alarming not only about the Silver Crown Cars ,but about all of Open Wheel racing.I hear things like unless you grew up with them, they are passe",dinosaurs, etc.Take a look at your average crowd at any Usac race.Do you see any really young people.People who go consistently know virtually everyone in the crowd or have seen them before.Do not include anyone involved with the race car.It is an older crowd and declining. I am 54 and probably on the younger side of the crowd.That is not good.How long before all of the series are" unless you grew up with them."This is alarming. I find it ironic that most of the drivers are under 30 or even 25, but the fans are much older.How the sport is grown, I do not know.I guess it is philosophical. There are people who care how things continue after they are gone, and there are those who don't.I hope it continues for others to enjoy, but right now no matter how much we love it, I do not know if it is sustainable for generations after we are gone.

I have to agree with your observations regarding the lack of young people in the crowd. Being 22, I always feel in the minority when I attend races.

The growing up with it comments are interesting. My parents would take me to the weekly winged show at Haubstadt back when they ran. However, that history hasn't limited me to wings. I enjoy both, but I did attend more USAC than WoO and ASCoC races this year. Either way, though, sitting with my parents every week and creating my own races with die cast cars on the bleachers is clearly where my fandom started.

I've got a friend who I took to 4 or 5 races this year, and he enjoyed them, but I still think the only time he will go is when I invite him. So, maybe growing up around it is necessary. I'm sure there are exceptions where fans found the sport later in life, though.

The silver crown thoughts are also interesting to consider. Admittedly, I would choose sprint cars or midgets first. I have some understanding of the silver crown history and have full respect for them, but I just prefer to watch sprints or midgets. Maybe that's due to not seeing the champ car races before my time. I'll say one thing, though. One of my favorite experiences of the year was at the Hoosier Hundred. I snuck out to where the photographers were standing in between turns 1 and 2 during practice, and watching them work those cars through the corners while standing only feet from them was amazing. I plan on attending that race again next season and hope to also get to the one at Terre Haute.

I'm not really sure that I've answered any questions that you had. I just figured I would offer my thoughts as a young fan. I can assure you that you'll continue to have this young fan in the stands, and I'll be doing my best to spread the word, whether I'm successful or not.

Re: generational question
 

I'm 29 years old and have been going to 15+ open wheel shows a season for the last 6 or 7 years. I didn't grow up with the sport, sure I went to a few races with my dad as a kid at our local track Tri-State Speedway, but by no means was it a weekly thing. I started to go again as a young adult and really caught the bug. I try to make it a point each season to take at least one friend along that's never been to a race before. Some of them have become regulars with our small group, others are a one and done. I am well aware of the typical age landscape in the grandstands and have thought about it quite often. The older crowd definitely outweighs the younger people, some tracks more than others. I see a lot of the same older people at multiple tracks I go to, but I can say the same thing for the younger crowd.

As for Silver Crown, maybe it is something you needed to grow up watching. I've only seen two SC races, both at Eldora with the 4 Crown. I do much prefer sprint cars and their shorter all out races. However, I do understand and appreciate the differences in Silver Crown to sprint cars.

With all that, I guess I'm just trying to point out that I don't feel your outlook on the generational gap is a bleak as you make it out to be. I've seen more and more of a younger crowd over the last several years and feel it will continue to grow. Young people just don't know about it, so it's up to the young people like myself that do to educate and bring more fans to the track. For the older generation, reach out to the younger crowd that you do see at the track, educate them on the history of the sport. Help bridge the generational gap.

Re: generational question
 

I'm kind of like these other two, I'm 27 and go to 40+ sprint and midget races a year and have been going with my dad since I was 3. I think growing up with it makes a difference, but I think there are some other factors too.
I think one big factor is during your teens and early 20's, there's a lot of stuff to do like sports, school, partying, chasing girls, cars, just generally being out because you can, ect and that all cuts down on young people's time, money, and interest in going to the races. I'm a huge fan and go as much as a possibly can but as a teen I maybe went to 15 races a year for a few years. I've noticed as I've gotten older I see more and more people my age there with their young children. It seems that once people get out of the going out and partying stage and get married and have kids, they come back to the races and bring their kids with them.
As far as Silver Crown goes, I like the big cars and the history is awesome, but I enjoy the sprints and midgets a lot more so I rarely go to a Silver Crown race because usually I'm at another race somewhere.

Re: generational question
 

SDHill89 brings up a good point. In my younger years I use to go with my dad to a number of races but as I got older and got more into women and playing sports in high school and what not I kind of strayed from the racing scene. Now I'm back into it heavier than ever but I'm also closing in on 30 now. I've noticed a lot more of my friends my age attending more races now that they've gotten out of the bar scene and have either gotten married or had kids.

With Silver Crown I think you have a niche fan base, last week I mentioned the idea of having an "outlaw" SC race and got the picture pretty quick that although it sounds like a good idea on paper when you look at the grand scheme of things that isn't the case. The reason I mentioned it is because I enjoy Silver Crown racing and my idea was that it might spark more interest. But again, I'm into racing pretty heavy these days, I'm a single guy that likes to be at the track whether its sprints, midgets, late models, Silver Crown, etc. However, as an above average fan I'm also willing to travel from Louisville to places like Du Quoin, Indianapolis, Salem, etc. Not everyone is. So "unless you grew up with them" and considering they have a short schedule, how many people are willing to travel to see Silver Crown races when many fans aren't as familiar with them as they are sprint cars

Not sure if that makes any sense reading it back to myself but I tried.

There is very little marketing done for open wheel racing, WoO is perhaps an exception. In general what little marketing that is done is to current fans. No easy answers because marketing takes money. There are opportunities for free or low cost marketing but not enough of this is done either. I agree that age of fans is an issue, skewed heavily to the over 50 crowd. I went to a stock car track in NC and was amazed that there were fans of all ages present. Point being there is interest among younger folks in racing but how do you reach out to those who do not know about sprints, midgets, etc.

Re: generational question
 

A few years ago I was in Leaders Edge picking up a rear end, and this came up in conversation about the crowds. As they were all being in there 50's and the only young people at the track were the drivers. So after having this chat I started really observing the crowds and you guys are right 50 and up. Here is the sad thing I am a High School Vocational teacher in Illinois I got the local track to give me free passes for students that done well in class and different things. Non of the kids wanted to go to the races. I have invited many students to go to the races with us to help out and I would pay their way and they don't want to go. The big Kicker is last weekend I could not go to the races on Friday cause I coach football, my son was going to go and run he is 25 been racing his whole life. He didn't go cause he had no help, he call about 5 guys to see if they would go and help him, pay their way in and nobody wanted to go. Video games and Beer are more fun. Good thing is the car is in one piece LoL Crowds in Indiania I feel are still good but in Illinois not so good, our track in Iowa we race at you cold throw a hand full of rocks and hit no one in the stands. Sad but to the Silver Crown question I will go to a crown race any where love those cars But I am old too Lol

Re: generational question
 

I feel like the decline in young fans could correlate directly with the number of tracks that run weekly shows, nowadays. I can remember when I was young (I'm 31 now...OLD) going to Tri state Speedway every Sunday. I think it's hard for youngsters, who didn't grow up with a parent racing, to even know when and where there's going to be a race, and to get an adult to take them to the track. That goes back to the marketing of the sport. I've introduced a lot of new fans to dirt track racing, and have found that once you get someone to the track, they typically want to go back time and time again.

It also helps when the drivers are fan-friendly. I feel like the tracks that have hometown drivers that are well-liked, tend to have a lot of their youth t-shirts in the stands, which will eventually grow up to be adult t-shirts and lifelong fans.

Re: generational question
 

I think it has to do with birth rates. when I was young the smallest family had 3 kids nowadays people tend to have 2 or less. there are just less young people to get hooked, plus the entertainment dollar has a lot more to choose from.

Re: generational question
 

I feel all the above post make really good points. I was like most of you as far as going racing with a parent, and during high school I wasn't there a lot but went a couple times a year I think most younger people would rather go to their schools games and such. When I was growing up most race cars were at garages so you could at least see the cars, Stadium Motors 00 was bout 3 blocks away and when they fired the car up it was like a magic sound to me as I went there with a couple of friends, my friends would stay bout 5 minutes but I was there for hours or till they told me to go home lol I"d talk with dad about going to Haubstadt and we"d cheer old 00 on and it won a lot of races. My dad always asked me if I wanted a buddy to go with us and more often than not they wern"t interested but next day they wanted to know how 00 did. I became hooked and was ready to go with dad and his buddies when they started going to USAC races. I guess what I"M trying to say is that now days younger people have so many things to chose from that unless they were brought up going most won"t. So next year if you younger guys see a heavy set guy with a walker stop me and say Hi :8:

Re: generational question
 

I am somewhere in the middle. I am 47. I grew up in west Texas where we had a few sprint cars and a little more late models, but most of the time the races were either modifieds or stock cars. I didn't see my first real midget race until I was in me early 30's and instantly fell in love with them. I started trying to see more and more midget races, and I moved a couple of times for my job and each time the areas had good midget racing.

For my 40th birthday, my big gift was a race weekend for the Indy 500. I did all of my research and was excited to go see a bunch of different races at a bunch of new tracks. I was very excited to go watch the SC race at the Indy fairgrounds. It was my first time to see them race, and it was the first time for me to be a mile racetrack. I was going to be able to cross both of these off of my bucket list. As the night went on, I found myself caring less and less about the race. I thought the track was too big, the cars were two spread out, racing action was limited, and I found the cars to be a little boring. This was especially true since I had been going to more and more midget races.

So on the other thread, I stated that unless you grew up with SC races, it is hard to be a fan. Now, you have the background of my comment. I knew dirt track racing, I knew open wheel racing, I had fallen in love with midget racing, and was not impressed with SC races. Thus, when people talk about growing the SC racing, I shake my head. If it is difficult for a SC car to capture my attention, how is it going to capture the attention of someone who has never been before?

I believe that growing up going to races even if you stop eventually you will get hooked again. It's kind of like church. The saying is that most young adults leave the church at some point but usually seem to find their way back. That doesn't mean that other people don't find the church later in life. I just think people who experienced racing when young will be more likely to go back.

As for the younger crowd, I am 32 and go to as many races as I can. For close to 10 years racing was not a priority and the only reason I attend races is now is because it is a priority.

Think about this. I would say this is a pretty normal trend for people who go to college. They are in college til 22-23. They get married mid to late 20s. They have kids late 20s to early 30s. Then kids life can eat up your time for the next 20 years. Even if they go to races with they are bound to get involved in other stuff as well.

It's really had to commit to anything within those years unless it's a priority and even then it's tough.

So it's not always how do you get kids or young adults involved in something entertainment related like racing. It's can you continue to attract 40+ year olds who are starting to get disposable time and income to attend things such as racing.

I maybe way off but an outside of the box take on it.

Okay...I'll start by saying I'm old. I'm 61. I went to my first dirt Sprint/Supermodified race in 1964 or 1965 at Tri-State Speedway. I went to my first USAC Sprint race at Salem in 1967 and my first dirt USAC sprint race at Terre Hate in 1969. Since then I've been to at least one sprint car race every year. This year we attended 15 sprint car races, 10 non-wing USAC Sprint car events and 5 WoO events.

While we have attended several Silver Crown events at Terre Haute, ISF and Eldora in the past, the truth is that they just aren't our favorite events to attend. While I agree they are graceful on the miles, the races we have attended have usually been races of attrition or tire saving exercises. I understand that strategy is part of the attraction for some, I just prefer the all out aspect of sprint car racing.

As to some of the comments/concerns regarding the average age of those attending open wheel races, this is something that I've been concerned about for some time, and have posted about on this forum before. I certainly don't have the answer, and I believe some of the causes have been noted in the previous comments. I will say that having attended both winged and non-winged events this year, the average age at winged events APPEARS to be younger than that at the non-winged events we have attended. My perception as to why this occurs is that typically WoO events are better promoted than a typical non-winged event.

Re: generational question
 

Originally Posted by MIracing:
I believe that growing up going to races even if you stop eventually you will get hooked again. It's kind of like church. The saying is that most young adults leave the church at some point but usually seem to find their way back. That doesn't mean that other people don't find the church later in life. I just think people who experienced racing when young will be more likely to go back.

As for the younger crowd, I am 32 and go to as many races as I can. For close to 10 years racing was not a priority and the only reason I attend races is now is because it is a priority.

Think about this. I would say this is a pretty normal trend for people who go to college. They are in college til 22-23. They get married mid to late 20s. They have kids late 20s to early 30s. Then kids life can eat up your time for the next 20 years. Even if they go to races with they are bound to get involved in other stuff as well.

It's really had to commit to anything within those years unless it's a priority and even then it's tough.

So it's not always how do you get kids or young adults involved in something entertainment related like racing. It's can you continue to attract 40+ year olds who are starting to get expendable time and income to attend things such as racing.

I maybe way off but an outside of the box take on it.

Thats kind of what happened to me. I'm 66. In the early 1960s I would bug my father to take me to dirt track "stock car" races in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley (actually "jalopies" or modifieds, which at the time were run whatcha brung hotrod coupes) Loved it. In 1966 we moved back up North & I went to 2 races on pavement, lost all interest. Fast forward 40 some years, I was visiting in Upstate NY, a friend gave me a racing magazine that mentioned big sprint car scene in Central Pa. I was headed to southern Pa. the next day, got on the Net, found a race, was instantly rehooked. Since then (2010?)I discovered wingless & midgets & have been to lots of the big events all over USA (I have summers off) I think I did 14 races this summer.
As to the younger crowd, kids just aren't into cars like they used to be. When I was in HS, a kid could get a part time or summer job, living at home, & save to buy some pretty hot cars. There were HS Auto Shop classes & lots of people knew how to work on cars. Nowadays cars are expensive, efficient, boring & require specialized training to fathom all the electronics. You rarely see a bunch of teenagers working on a car with the hood open in the driveway anymore. They'd rather do video games or yak on their cellphones. What to do? Beats me.... better enjoy it while it lasts....

Re: generational question
 

Originally Posted by sp6967:
I think it has to do with birth rates. when I was young the smallest family had 3 kids nowadays people tend to have 2 or less. there are just less young people to get hooked, plus the entertainment dollar has a lot more to choose from.

This is and extremely astute observation and I think has a lot to do with it. In 1980 the Under 18 age group made up 28.1% of the population and the 45-64 group made up 19.6% (according to the U.S. Census). By 2010, that had shifted to 24.2% under 18 and 26.1% 45-64. That trend isn't slowing down. We are just getting older as a society and it shows up in many places.

I have also told many people in my life that I felt there was a "racing gene". I am a fan because my father was a fan. He was a fan because my grandfather was. My son is a fan because I am. I honestly don't know a whole lot of race fans whose parents weren't also fans. And I think this is true for racing way more than for any other sport. So when you stop taking your kids to races, you are giving the gene a chance to die out. And once it's gone, it's difficult for it to regenerate.

Re: generational question
 

Originally Posted by Jonr:
I am somewhere in the middle. I am 47. I grew up in west Texas where we had a few sprint cars and a little more late models, but most of the time the races were either modifieds or stock cars. I didn't see my first real midget race until I was in me early 30's and instantly fell in love with them. I started trying to see more and more midget races, and I moved a couple of times for my job and each time the areas had good midget racing.

For my 40th birthday, my big gift was a race weekend for the Indy 500. I did all of my research and was excited to go see a bunch of different races at a bunch of new tracks. I was very excited to go watch the SC race at the Indy fairgrounds. It was my first time to see them race, and it was the first time for me to be a mile racetrack. I was going to be able to cross both of these off of my bucket list. As the night went on, I found myself caring less and less about the race. I thought the track was too big, the cars were two spread out, racing action was limited, and I found the cars to be a little boring. This was especially true since I had been going to more and more midget races.

So on the other thread, I stated that unless you grew up with SC races, it is hard to be a fan. Now, you have the background of my comment. I knew dirt track racing, I knew open wheel racing, I had fallen in love with midget racing, and was not impressed with SC races. Thus, when people talk about growing the SC racing, I shake my head. If it is difficult for a SC car to capture my attention, how is it going to capture the attention of someone who has never been before?

It is obvious that you didn't attend the Hoosier Hundred the past couple of years and definitely not the last 3 or 4 Ted Horn Memorial races at Du Quoin. Those races were as entertaining and exciting as any racing we attended all season. We attend several midget and sprint car (winged and wingless) races along with the Silver Crown races at Indy, Springfield, Du Quoin and Terre Haute. The Silver Crown races I mention hold their own in comparison to any we attend all season.

If wheel clacking bump and grind midgets or sprint cars on a 1/5 mile such as Macon is your only cup of tea then the mile races probably won't be as enticing. You won't see much of that in the longer races on the longer tracks, and for good reason. The Silver Crown cars are entering the corners at around 140 MPH in some cases and wheel clacking and bumping and grinding can easily get someone hurt. The mile tracks are a thinking man's finesse/momentum tracks.

The differences, obviously, are night and day. What many of us enjoy about the Silver Crown races, especially on the mile dirt tracks, is there is a myriad of things going on all at once. The 100 milers have a driver managing the lessening fuel load, changing track conditions, right rear tire management and adapting to the fast racing lines changing throughout the course of the 100 miles. All the time running as hard as tire wear and track conditions will allow and stoutly competing against the other drivers who are managing the same things. The bullrings are more mash the gas and contact, which is fine and exciting in it's own right.

It takes a degree of understanding and appreciation of all those things to fully enjoy most Silver Crown races. Slam bang bull ring racing is great and as enjoyable as any but the big cars on the big tracks are nuanced in completely different ways and to some, just as exciting.

Re: generational question
 

I'm in that mid 50's range and have been attending races since I was 3 so I've got 50+ years of attending races.

When I first started going with my Mom and Dad to our hometown track we were watching Bugs or 30x90 race with the Semi Lates. Winged Super Sprints soon replaced the Bugs and became the head line division in our area. The Sprints were dropped from my local track when I was about 10 and my dad stopped going. It was not until I got my own car at 17 did I get back to the track. By then Late Models and Stock cars were the only thing to watch at out track. The following year I started venturing north up into Central PA to see the Winged Sprinter at Williams Grove and that became my Friday night home through the 80's into the mid 90's.

I've always been a history buff and read as much as I could find about racing. When USAC came to Williams Grove with the Midgets and Silver Crown cars in the early 80's I was there. It was my first introduction to wingless racing and I ate it up. I really fell in love with the Champ Cars after that first race at the Grove. Been a big fan of them ever since. It was a big thrill for me when they came back to the Grove this summer.

I try and travel to as many different tracks and types of racing as I can get to. I'll go to an SCCA Road race during the day and then drive 90 miles north to see Sprints or Super Sportsman race on dirt later that night. Even with all the different types of racing I've seen a Silver Crown car still ranks up very high, they’re in my top three favorite type of race car.

I think you captured well why SC racing is a niche within a niche sport. Any time nuance is mentioned that means only those with deep knowledge and fandom will truly get it. Not bad mouthing, what you said is true and likely why there aren't as many fans.

I'm 33 and I love the Silver Crown series. First saw them in 2006 at that terrible Sumar Classic. Have since seen them at Syracuse twice, IRP, Williams Grove, and the Indiana State Fairgrounds. I'm also obsessed with 50s and 60s USAC so I'm in the vast minority for my age group.

I think all of the stated reasons/causes of the aged fan base are accurate. I am 51 and now have the time and disposable income to attend as many races as I want to (20+ this year) and all types sprints, midgets, mods, late models even silver crown. I was an avid nascar fan for many years, now I gave no interest there. I do attend the truck racecst Eldora though. My son (26) would love to attend as many races as I do but 50-60 hour work weeks routinely get in his way. I tell him I'll have to keep his seat warm until he can get there.