Group qualifying
 

Just curious; I have heard mainly negative comments about the group qualifying format used at the Haubstadt Hustler, as well as at other events, and I tend to agree with them. I prefer seeing one car at a time, getting to see how each car and driver performs. That is not always possible when cars qualify in groups, and often drivers get hung up behind a slower car and that can affect an entire group. I am not creating a poll, but hope to see some opinions expressed.

With group qualify you are only with your heat so dosnt matter if track goes away.unlike single car qualify where track as a change so it luck of the draw as to when you go kinda of a better deal unless you get a loaded group and that happens

When you hot lap and qualify at the same you can't make changes to the car.

Same for everyone in that group makes you learn your setup a little better or driver has to compensate for it

Overall it's a better deal. The loaded heat race scenario happens once In a while, but beats a blind draw for heat race starting position, and certainly beats the many occasions where a late pill draw can kill your chances at qualifying decent. Most forms of sprint cars are moving to group qual type formats. The all stars do single car, but it's sectioned out against your heat race group. Mowa does something similar. The outlaws if they have enough cars split the field in half so you're qualifying against your half of when you went out.

Re: Group qualifying
 

Originally Posted by JDK222:
When you hot lap and qualify at the same you can't make changes to the car.

With as much as the track typically changes between hot laps and qualifying, the chances of hitting the setup right for either, are about the same IMO.

Group Qualifying is better than No Qualifying for sure! It does get frustrating when you try to position yourself to get clean laps and still catch someone or the track isn't how you set-up for. That's just part of it though.

I don't think anyone should ever have to pass a car in qualifying.

I saw 2 car qualifying at a race this year. I liked that as it cut time in half but still gave you a one car feel. The fastest car happened to qualify with one of the slowest. he almost ran him down. Overall the best of both worlds in my opinion.

Re: Group qualifying
 

I don't like group qualifying. Period.

I dont like qualifying. I like the two heat format with or without passing points. I think too much weight is put into qualifying. To be honest, when I go to a race I want to see racing. One car running by itself is not racing. I know I am in the minority, but I think single car qualfying takes too long and luck of the draw is everything.

They use group qualifying at one of our micro tracks and it works great. Plus with group qualifying you get 3 or 4 laps to set a time rather than 2.

Re: Group qualifying
 

Group qualifying is for sports cars on pavement. Sprint cars, midgets, silver crown etc. should be mono-a-mono - driver vs the track.

Re: Group qualifying
 

I am OK with group qualifying, single car qualifying, or even no qualifying. What I hate is using hot laps as time trials. I would rather pill draw than that. Such a disadvantage for the non locals.

Re: Group qualifying
 

Im not a fan of it for several reasons.
One, I don't like seeing the same group on the track together twice. It's kinda a preview of the heat race.

Two, Hotlaps and Time trials are and should be two different things. There may be something wrong with the car. Bad choice of gear, A bent bar on the car or shock not working right from last week you didn't know about that you can correct before Time Trials.

Seen lots of problems with slower cars hurting others, Sometimes they can't even hold a line to make a pass so they can get a good lap the next time.

Takes just as long to stage, push off and puts more laps on the track than single car.

No clear overall fast time as sometimes the first hotlap-qualifying group is on a greasy track that takes a few laps to buzz off.

Rather have Single car or no qualifying from this fans perspective with maximum eight car heats.

Re: Group qualifying
 

I don't mind group qualifying for local shows, but for sanctioned events I like single car. Draws are the worst.

Re: Group qualifying
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Im not a fan of it for several reasons.
One, I don't like seeing the same group on the track together twice. It's kinda a preview of the heat race.

Two, Hotlaps and Time trials are and should be two different things. There may be something wrong with the car. Bad choice of gear, A bent bar on the car or shock not working right from last week you didn't know about that you can correct before Time Trials.

Seen lots of problems with slower cars hurting others, Sometimes they can't even hold a line to make a pass so they can get a good lap the next time.

Takes just as long to stage, push off and puts more laps on the track than single car.

No clear overall fast time as sometimes the first hotlap-qualifying group is on a greasy track that takes a few laps to buzz off.

Rather have Single car or no qualifying from this fans perspective with maximum eight car heats.

This post has several good points....However, I do like the fact that MSCS runs a different format than USAC. That makes there races just a little bit different.

Brandon has group qualified about 20 times this year and had quick time of his group 2 or 3 times, and it is frustrating when a slower car gets in front of you, but it is way better than pill draw racing when you only have 8 or 10 laps to pass 4 or 5 cars due to a bad draw. My biggest complaint is MSCS is not on the Race Monitor app for your cell phone and they only announce the top 4 times for each group, so if you don't qualify into the invert, you don't know for sure how close you were time-wise.....

A lot of tracks are single lane early in the night, so passing is very tough to do in hotlaps/qualifying and heat races, especially at Haubstaudt and Bloomington. But single car qualifying is not needed for weekly shows...save it for the National events with USAC only. That way it makes their shows different than everyone elses...

I personally like single car 2 lap quals.

I think the best compromise is 1 car 1 lap quals.....half the time and track wear as traditional quals.

I like to see who can go out and actually know how to go fast by themselves without a rabbit or someone showing them where the track is.

I am not a fan of double quals. Meaning that even if you qualify well you still have to run a heat and/or semi. I've always felt the top 6 or 8 should either start straight up or have a dash to set their spot.

Re: Group qualifying
 

I like the group qualiftying as you get to see who"s fast right off the bat. As far as running up on slower cars you"re going to have to pass them sooner or later. I think it was Chuck who said it was kinda a preview of the heats . I don"t think it wears a track out as bad as single car qualifying, just MHO :8:

You pass cars when you race,but when you have to do it Qualifying; it severely hinders your chance to get a great lap time!

Re: Group qualifying
 

I'm going to stay with my original response from at least a year ago, I like to qualify just me, car, track, it's my one chance to pick a line, and get my last chance at the track, just me, you can learn a lot, in a little time, but it is what it is, everyone has the same track, so it's up to the promoter, but for me, let me on it by myself, one lap or two, warm up lap, and one timed, whatever. Bob

Single car.
1 lap.
Against your draw group (only); or split the field in to two qualifying groups (early & late).

Re: Group qualifying
 

Thanks for all the input! Lots of interesting well thought out posts.

POWRi passing points works good for them; USAC two lap single car qualifying works good for them; and Kokomo group qualifying works good for them. Really don't see what is broke.

I personally like the group qualifying. The Knoxville Nationals used the two car one lap qualifying approach and split the field on Friday night of the Nationals, and while it cut the time down some, it did NOT cut it in half IMO. There was still a significant decline in the speed of the track from the first "good" car to the the last car to qualify in a group. Group qualifying does seem to put less emphasis on your qualifying draw.

I have seen some comments about how group qualifying puts drivers unfamiliar with a track or those who miss the set-up at an unfair disadvantage. Maybe a compromise to that issue is let the groups hot lap and then send the groups back out for group qualifying.

The Outlaws do 2 groups.

Originally Posted by farriswheel:
With as much as the track typically changes between hot laps and qualifying, the chances of hitting the setup right for either, are about the same IMO.

Your right I have no idea what I am talking about!

I like single car 2 laps at all shows. You get a chance to see who is really on the edge and I don't care if it takes longer because I usually have to drive at least 4 hours each way to get to see sprint cars on the track. The longer the better. I have all week to not watch sprint cars. It's not my goal to go see the shortest show possible. Tracks that are prepped right don't change that much for non-wing cars. You can't compare anything about winged racing with non-wing. They don't relate.

Re: Group qualifying
 

I've always been kind of a traditionalist, and from where I come from in SoCal that meant 2 laps against the clock. Sure, that meant the track conditions could be drastically different, from greasy for the first few, ideal for the middle of the draw and slicked off at the end (unless you were at Ascot, where it went from suck-your-shoe-off tacky, to perfectly tacky to just a tick off perfectly tacky), but anybody worth strapping in would try to guess what the conditions would be when your pill came up, just like for hotlaps, your heat, (or the Consi if you guessed wrong) the Semi (if you guessed OK but got blown away by the inverts who guessed the heat setup better) and the Main. Dirt track racing is all about hitting the setup throughout the program and qualifying was an electrifying part of the whole show. And it was truly a show.
Having said that, that was also back in the day when the whole show was Sprint Cars, or a double-header with Midgets at the most. In the modern world of Sprints, Mods and 3 or 4 classes of Super Thunder Bomber Streets, I'd have to vote for group qualies in your heat group, just to keep things inside the curfew...
Except for any USAC show; there, the tradition should be maintained (but the support classes should be limited).

Re: Group qualifying
 

Group qualifying is another of NASCRAP's bad ideas.

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Wes Stafford