POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

:37:

Yeah, thanks but no thanks... I realize we're not doing this for the money, but there's no way I can run for that kind of purse. Most weekly micro shows have a better payout.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

High, low purse who knows.
We always looked at it that if we had to rely on purse money to afford to race, we couldnt afford to race.
It could be different where you are but our 600 purses are quite high, but so are the car counts.

Is this the way the payout will be throughout the year?

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

I have no idea...This was off the POWRi website download. It is up to each series to regulate their own purse stucture as far as I know...We (SSMS D-2 in the south) have a min. of $100.00 to start and 1 pit pass per car. Our to win varies but I make sure everyone from last to 1st get a fair shake and make sure it's not all on top.

Just posted this as many has been asking for the D-2 purse. :47:So please don't shoot the messenger!!!:47:

That's kind of the point... Affordability is relative. If the costs are close though, (and I think they are), why wouldn't I run micros? I can run with POWRi, plus run 10 good money shows for the same cost. And be certain I'm not going to show up for a car count of 12... Or less. I guess if the purse means nothing to you, and you can 'afford' to run without it, then that's fine. Between the negativity that engine rules are already receiving, and the lack of a purse decent enough to pull away some owners from other classes, D2 will not thrive. It may survive, but I don't think it will ever see the car counts that micros and even national midgets are getting. It was (and still is) a solid concept, but I think the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction from national midgets toward absolute affordability for all. It would have been an excellent platform for a ladder system: ->micros ->D2 -> national midgets or sprints.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

You've got to be kidding........ That's street stock money... :-(

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

OK

I did not see based on 20+ car field, That would be a good thing at least you would know what the heck you are racing for.

When a Micro class shows up with 40+ cars per class and several classes they can afford to pay more just because of the back gate take. It is going to be hard for a D2 class to even make that 20 car field. That does not prevent them from putting on one heck of a show however. If they succeed in making a good show they just might entice a few more butts in the grand stand and then if the promoter is smart he will pass some of his profit down to the racers. That is how things are supposed to work.

One other thing that I have noticed about purses over the years is that they seem to decrease as you go west. It seems like the best state for purse was always Ohio, followed by Indiana, and for some reason Illinois was always lower, so perhaps this purse is very much in line with what it is supposed to be.

What always amazes me is success of the Micro's. They have developed into a neat little race car, much improved from the early spin every lap design of the past. But they are still just overpowered Go Karts to me. While the Mini Sprint or D2 Midget is a true race car. Johnny Murdock has been the true ambassador for D2 Midgets. If more guys were like Johnny and we could entice a few of these Micro Guys into giving a D2 a test race there would probably be a giant exodus from Micro to a real Midget race car. Especially when they found out difference in the cost of racing. (Just an Idea Johnny give a Micro Racer Discount)

Next Question>>> I was more interested in a pic of that winners trophy rather than the Money I would be racing for.:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

just throwing this out there off their website,,,,"The 2016 Point Fund is $7000.00 dollars and contingencies to be divided up among the Top 10"...that could help...

Speed 2 what is their payout?

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Wayne

Was that 10" a Freudian slip?:5:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

From the standpoint of someone trying to start a new Series the Midwest Lightning Midget Series its not as simple as demanding a big purse from promoters. My first gosl was to build a schedule. Some of our races may only pay 300 to win with 60 to start but that's based on a 15 car field not a 20 car field. This is a realistic number I feel for a first year series.

Now we also plan to have several 100 to start and 500 to win races with a 15 car minimum so we have a range of purses.

we are not charging membership or guest fees just a ten dollar pill draw fee. This helps offset some of the normal cost and lower purses. To race a National series you also have to consider the nightly cost and annual fees to race not just what you put into the cost of the car.

Bottom line D2 racing is very new to the midwest and it will take time to build it up.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Jay, I fully understand your position, believe me, I've been there. My concern is getting a viable, realistic, common sense rules package together, post haste, as you have read my concerns about a junk yard "stock" motor, and the realistic views of how one controls this "stock" item, and as we have discussed before, my feeling is not to cast it in stone, but leave a little room for items that crop up down the road, my feelings are clear, KISS, make it a "stock Appearing" engine rule, allowing for popup pistons, good aftermarket rods, and performance cams, my concern is this, if you turn 20 or so of these loose, and they turn out to be like the old West Bend 820 go kart class, I don't see many people getting excited about them, and it doesn't cost that much more, to build a mildly modified engine anyway, same parts, only slightly different cost, and you wouldn't believe the things people went thru, to make the US820 West Bend just a tad better, people were actually stretching the rods, to gain more compression, it was unbelievable what lurks in minds of men, when it comes to racing, and having an advantage, as long as the head stays stock, no port work, just a rebuild valve job and springs, no stroker kits, no overbore over .030, and the other mentioned items, and you can have an affordable engine package, for under 3k, plus the non-consumable parts like injection, and whatever you decide for oiling, wet sump, or dry sump, no on board engine management magic boxes, just simple ignition stuff that can be bought for $150.00, and adapted, I plan on using one for a 4 cyl motorcycle, no muss, no fuss. I know this is more than you had planned on, just run the D2 rules and let it happen, but in my days of "stock" class anything, I've seen more money spent, than I could waste if I drank, it's foolish the extent folks will go to to get and edge, I have more to say, but I think enough has already been said, I just wanted to get this much off my chest, I got into TQ's, because of the rules they had, perfect as far as I was concerned, but now I'm afraid that may be gone, just sayin! Bob

"We're partners. You (promoter Ken Squire) risk your money.I risk my life." -- Ed Flemke

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Bob

Last I checked Jay had a very liberal almost non existent rule plan basically only banning national Motors of any age. So you should fall in there. I remember them 820's one liked to killed me.

My way of thinking is "KEEP THEM PORTS STOCK AS CAST" and everything should fall in place. A very easy check with a bore scope.

Other easy bore scope checks would be

1. Cranks

2.Rods

3.Piston crowns

The new bore scopes will even take a pic and put it on your computer, then it is simply as what the little boy told the little girl.:)

4. Some people just are way over concerned about engine modifications.:3:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

I wouldn't get what The MLMS series is trying to accomplish confused with a series that might be more there to hone D-1 talent.
If you race for fun I don't know how many more options you can get then with the series Tinder is starting.
I cant help but wonder if having the word midget in the title of the series hurts more than helps.
Racers Race, was my dads favorite sayin. :23:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

No intention of bashing, but this blows me away:
I raced karts in the mid-90's for purses similar to this!

DAD, I own one of those bore scopes, and they are handy for lots of things! Bob

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Yeah man. :3:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

They say they miss you and want you back.

Chris, I ran karts from 1958, to 1991, got lots of trophies, and once I won every thing they had, a qt of Steen C, 5 gal of gas, a cake with the track record on it and a little trophy with a pencil sharpener in the base, and that's as close to any money I won in a go kart, now, Tq's were quite different, man could make a dollar or two there! Bob

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

you guys remember this is a start up series in Illinois and it is way easier to add to the purse then take it away....AGAIN....give it a chance to work out...I'm sure it will....remember how the "CHILI BOWL" was 25 years ago

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

MLMS is Jay Tinder's series (Jay is Avon Open Wheel Fan); I think what he's trying to do is provide a place where just about anyone with a Midget-like car (short of a full-on National Esslinger, Mopar, or TRD) can compete; it's like Montpelier lite, which has done really well operating on a "Y'all come" format. Some people (not very many, based on the constistently mixed turnout) don't like running against the big motors; personally I think it makes us better racers to have some faster cars to chase, but I've never been accused of being normal. Thing is, if your ego doesn't need to be stoked with trips to victory lane the generous purse takes some of the sting out. It stands to reason that these fledgling series will take a while to get established, maybe generate some sponsorship interest and bigger car counts, and crank up the payouts. Give 'em time to succeed before you banish them to
the trash heap.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

I sure hope everyone is right and this thing takes off. I'm just not convinced they'll ever be a car count to match the current enthusiasm. As much as sitting on the sidelines another season is worse than getting a tooth pulled (I dread even opening up Facebook anymore and looking at everyone's build pictures and race results-) I'm kinda glad I get to sit by and watch how this first D2 season unfolds.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Last season ILSS ran non winged D-2 format at Lincoln speedway and had 20 cars each night. With Poweri and USAC now backing D2 I am expecting 20 plus cars a show. In a budget entry level class car count is more important than pay IMO. Not saying pay isnt nice but not sure $300 to win will detract from car count. Plus it is nice to see the full payout schedule. Then I can decide if its worth it to me based on expected cc and or pay.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

I hope the D2 series does well. Its a good thing for midget racing. I don't see Micro's as a stepping stone to D2 midget racing. The competition in Micros in the Midwest is second to non!! Also, we race for good money everywhere we race!!

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Micro

Have you ever raced a Midget size car either 1000cc Mini Sprint or Midget?:)
If not you should try one out some day. Granted the sidewinders put on exceptional racing on the small tracks that aren't too rough. The bigger cars have from what I have been told an entirely different feel to them neither good or bad. AND if these guys get it right the Midget size car might be cheaper to race. Now I guess you guys have to watch out for the Out Law Karts.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Kyle and Rico really helped the outlaw karts out!!! We have ran a Midget before. Driver loves it but I'm not spending the money for a national midget. Its hard to switch classes when you have everything you need. With the micro we race for 700 to win every Friday and Saturday. Last Friday 52 cars. Micros are still hot!!!!

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Micro

Only 20 cars are racing for that $700.00 how about the other 30 or so cars. The number sounds good but they don't even need a front gate for their purse. Sometimes I like to compare Racing with Bingo. How much are you paying for your motors or motors if you race more than one class?? Sounds like you are probably somewhere near Johnny Murdock. Might try one of his rentals for a night, probably be less than what you are spending a night racing Micro's and it is an arrive and drive deal.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

We run 1 class outlaw most of the time. Sometime we run outlaw nonwing but not often. Rather not say what we pay for motors.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Micro's are real big here on the east coast. 50-75 micros at the track isnt uncommon.
Minisprints like mine are almost gone. Used to be a lot of wrecked 1000cc bikes. Way more wrecked 600's now days.
If I wanted to run fairly local I would have zero choice of which open wheel car we would run. It would have to be a micro. I don't agree with the 600 cars not being a good stepping stone for for D-2 midgets or whatever. They will teach you car setup and good racing skills (both more important then money in the long run). They put on great racing on the right track and they can be economical.
I actually think they would be a perfect car to have on the D-2 program. Dad can run a D-2 car and for a few grand more you can have the kids race on the same card. There is also quite a few young female drivers showing there talent in them.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

My point was I don't see the D2 midget as a step up from a Micro. Thinks its a great class, just not a step up.

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Micro

I started out in Quarter Midgets 60 some odd years ago. On a 1/20 mile track Quarter Midgets are still the fastest thing out (as seen this last winter when they raced Midgets indoors on a Quarter Midget track) they are now getting down close to a 5 second lap. On a 1/5 or smaller track the sidewinder holds that same distinction, they just can't be beat including Out Law Karts.

When track size increases the bigger tires, wheelbase, and extra Horsepower starts to take over. A few years ago they tried out 1000cc sidewinders on the East Coast. They just did not work out too well Kind of like over kill.

I think stepping stone would not be a good way to describe the transition between sidewinder and D2 Midget or even a full Midget, it is just another step in your racing life. However when the track size starts getting past 1/4 mile it is a good time to think about getting into something else. From what I have read a D2 type car managed to finish in the top 5 up at Montpelier this last weekend, not too shabby.

They had one USAC car and 5 or 6 guys with D2 type cars that I guess chose not to come up with the membership fee. Keep in mind Montpelier is close to a 3/8th mile track.

If you are having fun more power to you>>>that is a lot better reason for racing than the one of making a lot of money doing it. My observation was that there are alternate ways to race that might be as much fun, a little less expensive and that don't offer you a 2 in 5 chance of racing for the BIG MONEY.:) Racing B mains and watching A mains from the stands just ain't much fun when it is your hobby.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

I kinda agree stepping stone isn't the right term.
For me it would be more wanting to move up to something that is more full size car like.
Its pretty simple, if your lucky you can afford to race something you really want, and have a place to race it. Or if you just gotta race and cant afford your dream ride you find something else to race. Most little guys don't care much about the purse because basically they all suck in the little leagues when you compare to your money commitment. Financially your going to bleed money everywhere. Theres only one winners share and most guys will never see it.

They rent the cars out for $10 a night and you just show up with your helmet and suit.

D2 is a good stepping stone it's also a great place to come back to for whatever reason like for the people that can't afford a national cars or us old guys that just want to have fun that have been there done it and have the T-shirt to prove it.
Bobby Layne

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Bobby

When a guy gets older it is also a whole lot easier to swap a couple of gears in the Quick Change than to lay on their back and fight with a chain for what sometimes feels like hours. :D That in itself is a selling point for D2's. After almost 30 years in Mini Sprints changing sprockets and chain sets is not my most favorite thing to do. And I have developed things to speed it up.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Dad
My D2 is chain drive the reason for that is Carla and I can do this by are self don't need a 4 wheeler and can you imagine her trying to push me on a four wheeler.
If everything goes well we plan on being in your neck of the woods a couple of times this season

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

Bobby

Keep me posted. You know a real racer is a racer whether it be shopping carts or 410 Sprint cars or anything in between. Not too many of you guys left. Montpelier has that Johnny Heydenreich kid racing up there with them simply because D2's are affordable and he still like to race. He too has been there and done that also. So D2's can be a stepping up point or a landing pad for racers both young and a maybe little older.

They make clutches for the Ecotec's. If you knew of a good Machinist you could probably get together with Mr Hench and change your car over to a Henchcraft D2. Probably not as fast as a Mini, but they will get faster with development. You don't pay much attention to chains until you hit the road.;)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: POWRi D-2 purse posted
 

DAD, are you going to make it to Macon?