Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Looking into buying a 5 bar no wing sprinter, BUT have no clue on how a sway bar works or what it does.:help::help:

Thanks
Pat

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Nobody wants to help out huh

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Patience bud!!....Leaders Edge will be here....or send him a P.M.....Brucer'

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Not being a driver, I can't have an honest opinion. I do think they help make the car more stable, but I know guys like Clayton or Bacon who don't always find them very comfortable to run.

Many say that it makes you feel like Super Man getting in, but they will take the nose in the corner if you don't work the pedal right.

It's like alot of things, try it and see if you like it. As someone once told me about something else: If you believe it will work; it will and if you believe it won't; then it won't.

I would talk to some drivers and see what they feel.

Good Luck.

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Originally Posted by youngpat:
Nobody wants to help out huh

I also noticed you had some well described examples on yur post on SCRAFan!!....Brucer'

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Just trying to get as many opinions as i can before I make a decision on a chassis.

Thanks, Pat

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

These boards are great tools for questions,answers, n help!!...good luck when you hit da track!!......Brucer'

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

the biggest difference i feel is that it take the left to right sway out of the car when you lift and return to the throttle, thats probably why its called a sway bar... if you want pm and i can give you a more specific idea on any certain ??? you may have, but i will say i am partial to the sway bar

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

To Young Pat,

A lot of guys run sway bars on the West Coast and I'm sure a lot
of guys don't.

If the sway bar came from the MFG of the Chassis, I would suspect the
handling would be in the ball park.

Be careful when you buy a 4 bar car from somebody who installed the 5th bar
themselves.

We did do just that. Bought a sway bar kit and installed it ourselves.

We had mixed results:

1) I don't believe our sway bar was made for our car.

a) I was told it was really made for a coil car.

2) Too make a long story short. If you are goin' to attach a sway bar,
make sure the sway bar is located exactly like the guy who is winning
with one.

a) That means to the chassis and how it is attached to the front axel.

I'd even go with the same length arms and sway bar diameter.


3) When we ran without the sway bar our car over-steered.

a) When we ran with one our car pushed.

b) The mistake I think we made was we didn't decrease the spring
rate of the front bars normally associated with the front
suspension. They say you should decrease this rate by 20-30
percent when you attach the 5th bar. :D


c) I think if we would of decreased the rate of the front bars that are
associated with the front suspension, that sway bar would of come into
play and worked rather nicely. We only ran the car a few times, before
it was sold for financia reasons. It was a great car.


d) The reason I think the kit we bought was wrong, is the sway bar
arms can get into a bind if they are not located on the front axel
correctly. Because the arms and radius rods are attached
the front axel they can start fighting each other if the "geometry"
is not correct and as the axel moves up and down.

a) In general on the West Coast I see the sway bar attached to the
to the frame directly below the other two front sway bars for
the front suspension.

b) And the sway bar arms attached directly below the front axel where
the other two arms for the front suspension are llocated above the
front axel. This is idea and very "neutral".

1) This arrangement gets rid of any binding you may have.

a) The sway bar arms are level to the ground at ride height.

2) I have noticed this setup on fast cars running with 5 bars.


3) Another thing you will see is the sway bar mounts attached to the
frame are welded solidly and beefed up/big tubes and a few
extra ones. A kit will not have all this solidly mounted stuff.
It's a kit.

The reason is when that sway bar starts working/bending
and twisting you want those forces transferred directly
through the frame to the other side of the car.

It only takes a litte bit of sway to make those bars work
corrcectly if they are mounted correctly, with the right
geometry and solidly.

Sincerely,

Larry "O" from the West Coast...lol:applaud:

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

My crew chief and I decided to take my sway bar off toward the end of the season. We got faster...not saying that a sway bar is going to make you slower. What I am saying is I got more comfortable without it. To me the sway bar gives a false sensation of feeling to the car. Without it I feel the car rollover and can tell where my right rear is better and tell more of what the car is doing. I found myself driving harder and running upfront more once the sway bar was gone.

I did learn the hard way that you need stiffer bars without the sway bar...:doh:

Todd Kimmel

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

we have a DRC with the factory sway bar deal on it. we had trouble with the car pushing but it turned out it was another problem besides the sway bar. however, the last weekend of this past season (funfest at lawrenceburg), we put Dickies Gaines in the car. the first thing he asked that we do, was remove the sway bar. he feels it "just binds the car up". without hotlaps he went out and came from 9th starting position to win the race in 15 laps. the car ran great all weekend w/o the sway bar. we're definitely going to start the season w/o it. if i were you, i would buy a car with a factory sway bar set up on it but, that doesn't mean you have to use it. it's just another option you have at the track. some guys love 'em

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Working at DRC. I Kinda have a good idea of how they work and if you want to PM me i would be glad to give you the info. There are lots of people out there that dont like them cause they dont know anything about them or how to use them correctly. When it comes to feature time i look down through the pit area just by looking at the rollbar stops i see who i have to beat. If you can learn from someone who uses it week in and week out then you will be ahead of 90% of all the other teams. I wouldnt run a car without one. They help you get in the corner and off the corner. There is no feeling loss and you can put on a standard setup and just add a sway bar. Like i said before just PM me no need to tell everyone what i am doing

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Sway bar promotes left rear drive, some say it tightens car on entry and gives forward to left rear off. Works good on dry slick. Buy a chassis with it or bolt on along with trying different bar rates. I would Pm Mr. Puterbaugh you can't go wrong with his record. FREE info from a wheel man Priceless:thumb

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

I have had several guys tell me the same as Todd. Like I mentioned before, It's a feel thing and if a driver isn't comfortable, then it won't give him the feel he is looking for.

For many guys I feel it is just a trust issue and since they don't feel the car roll over, they don't stay aggressive with the throttle. Some guys trust the car and trust that if they stay in the gas that the car will grab and dig and others have to have the sensation of the car rolling over and in a way tapping them on the shoulder and tell them it is time to go. I know Bacon for one is not a sway bar fan and he definately seems to go faster without it. Obviously Todd feels the same.

Whatever works is fine with me. The object is to go fast and to go fast a driver has to be comfortable. While I am more aligned with Billy in that I think it makes the car faster, the car is only going to go as fast as the driver driving it.

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

youngpat,you got a lot of great responses to a question I wanted to ask.I race Perris Ca. and like one guy mentioned ,a lot of drivers have tryed and failed with the sway bar deal,but like me ,they did'nt understand how to work it sooo.....call Glen Crossno at ITI Performance,I think,Onterio Ca.....They build the Viper chassis..I've never seen a car pull harder from the appex of the corner....David Cardey driving Crossno's 83 [when it's right ]is amazing...a coil front /sway bar car can work!

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Originally Posted by dant:
youngpat,you got a lot of great responses to a question I wanted to ask.I race Perris Ca. and like one guy mentioned ,a lot of drivers have tryed and failed with the sway bar deal,but like me ,they did'nt understand how to work it sooo.....call Glen Crossno at ITI Performance,I think,Onterio Ca.....They build the Viper chassis..I've never seen a car pull harder from the appex of the corner....David Cardey driving Crossno's 83 [when it's right ]is amazing...a coil front /sway bar car can work!

That car is usually way to tight for our normal track conditions,yea it's decent when the track really slicks off but how often does that happen at Perris.When you know what you're doing with it the sway bar works great and personally I love them.:thumb

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Hey youngpat,

I think you have brought up an interesting question. I myself come out of the winged car but after a couple of years watching the non wingies I decided that the sway bar was a must. However after driving with it, I noticed exactly what the other guys have posted here.

So what should a guy do??? That is deffinatly the question.

The only conclusion I have made for myself is this, the sway bar will stablize the car and keep it on its wheels even during contact with other cars meaning less time upside down. Without the sway bar you will probably be a little faster, feel more movement of the chassis BUT, your gonna get upside down sometime when you find yourself in a pinch. I think on a big track its a must but on the bull rings you can take the chance.

I would like to here what someone like Darel Tate or JJ Yeley's dad has to say obout the subject. Well I already talked to Darel about it but would still like to here from other crew chiefs about it.

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Well after speaking with countless people who have been racing non wing cars for a very long time I have come to this conclusion. Its all about how the driver feels in the car and what he is comfortable with. I was told by many people that you could have a sway bar car that has just got done lapping the field with driver A behind the wheel. Then driver B gets in it and cant keep it on the track. Same goes for a non sway bar car, one guy gets in it and hauls the mail someone else gets in it and flops. So Thank you to everyone who has spoken up on this thread and Good luck in 2009

Keep the rubber side down
Pat

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Originally Posted by cecil98:
we have a DRC with the factory sway bar deal on it. we had trouble with the car pushing but it turned out it was another problem besides the sway bar. however, the last weekend of this past season (funfest at lawrenceburg), we put Dickies Gaines in the car. the first thing he asked that we do, was remove the sway bar. he feels it "just binds the car up". without hotlaps he went out and came from 9th starting position to win the race in 15 laps. the car ran great all weekend w/o the sway bar. we're definitely going to start the season w/o it. if i were you, i would buy a car with a factory sway bar set up on it but, that doesn't mean you have to use it. it's just another option you have at the track. some guys love 'em

Guys ,go to you tube,Dickie Gaines-in car video of the race....how to drive a slick track 101 ,great job-great video

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

"I would like to here what someone like Darel Tate or JJ Yeley's dad has to say obout the subject. Well I already talked to Darel about it but would still like to here from other crew chiefs about it."


It seems to me that JJ Yeley was driving sprint cars with sway bars and front
coils springs long before it became statis quo as of lately.

There has been a little talk about the "Viper" Chassis, which I think is a copy
of a Keith Kunz Bullet.

At our local track and at Perris, Ca I have watched that car a lot and it seems
to be one of the few coil/sway bar cars that is really hooked up and engineered very thouroughly. Don't know why this car is so hooked up, but I have a feeling it
has to do with a low center of gravity and consequently low roll center which
the car reacts during twisting to the chassis.

The car sits low, the tank sits low, as well as the driver. Everythings seems to
be tight and close to the "roll center" to make the car roll along it's center very
easily, hooking up the car as it leans through the corners.

The exact opposite would be if the tank was higher and farther back as well
as the driver high in the saddle, which promote a High Polar Moment of Inertia,
which mean it wouldn't want to roll as easily.

It's like a Ice Skater with his arms farther from the center of his body, as he
bring those arms in he turns quicker. As you place driver and tail tank
and other parts of the car close to the roll center of the car it reacts quickers
and thus makes the car turn quicker.

Anyways that's a thought I had about the "Viper"/Keith Kunz Bullets coil over,
front sway bar cars.

Sincerely,

Larry "O" and Happy New Year

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

Yes if you don't get it set right it will slow you down , I worked a lot with are sway bar , I screwed the car up several times , I got it figured out ,it just took some time. PM me and leave me a phone number to talk . We ran good:checkered: on 1/4 and 3/8 mile high bank and low banking , We ran bloomington, paragon, kokomo , and putumville, tristate.

Re: Sway Bar vs No Sway Bar
 

It took a little work to figure it out , I 've screwed up the car a few times with the sway bar . And it will slow you down if you don't get it right . PM me and give me your number and we can talk , We run very good at bloomington, paragon, putumville, kokomo, and tristate. Cars gotta be right , good luck