D2 POWRI purse
 

Have they posted a purse for the d2/ Illini "affordable midget racing " yet?

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Our D-2 Carolina Spring Fling race Apr. 23rd is as follows:

$500
$350
$300
$250
$225
$200 through the field

1 pit pass per car and working on $50.00 gas cards per tow vehicle

Does anyone know what the purse will be ?

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

The Midwest Lightning Midget Series will have our purses posted prior to each race but it will depend on what we can work out with each promoter We have some races that will pay 100 to start and 500 to win if we get at least 15 cars. Most of our races will pay at least 60 to start and 300 to win.

Our first race is coming up this next Saturday April the 16th at US 24 Speedway.

You can always find out the purse on our web site. http://www.midwestmidgetseries.com/

https://www.facebook.com/Midwest-Lig...homepage_panel

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Hope you guys tear it up next weekend.
I like the engine rule's. My 1340cc air/oil cooled engine would be legal.
The other thing I like is that you can run meth or gas. One less cost of having to convert to one or the other.
I was never big on worrying about purse money, more the initial cost of getting started and what it costs to race.
Good luck on your series. :23:

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

I doubt you will ever see the purse for this series posted. I don't think you will ever find out what their tech inspection procedure will be either. I had thought about buying a midget and having an engine built to race part time in the POWRi D2 series and the USAC/IMRA series, but I quickly learned how political both of these groups are. I have attended many national midget races as a fan over the last few years, and heard so many people complain about the lack of tech. I started to wonder, if they don't check engines in their series that pays thousands to win, how much tech will they do in a series that pays hundreds to win? If they can't check engines that are only limited to cubic inches, how are they going to check engines for stock crankshafts, stock pistons, stock piston pins, and stock cams? Do either of these groups have anyone on their staff who has all the specs and the tools and the knowledge to inspect all the automotive and motorcycle engines?

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

The way I look at it that's kinda the point of the series that Mr. Tinder is having, not going crazy on engine rules.
Show up with what you got and have some fun.
Its a little like the run what you brung from back in the day.
I understand worrying about engine rules, but I don't believe TECH is the main point in a series like Tinders.
I believe the point here is to get some cars out of garages and onto the track.
Then if the series takes off maybe you can have two classes within the D-2 moniker, class A and Class B.
Win two class B mains and move up to class A or whatever.
My point is (and I'm talking about Mr. Tinders series not midgets in general) who cares, if anybody really wanted to race they'd have a car and take it from there.

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

SAC

Go on out and find a car. Either buy a competitive Mini Sprint (as fast of faster on the small tracks) or convert a Midget roller over. The little independent guys like Johnny Murdock, Jay Tender and Wayne Davis are probably ahead of the curve as far as tec and being out front with the racer. Purses are not going to be too large starting out. If you are racing for money stay away from National Midgets, D2 Midgets and for that fact Mini Sprints. If you are going to be racing as a hobby and for fun, then for many racers, (not all racers) the thing to consider is how to race with out selling the farm or spending the kids lunch money. If you want to race National Midgets better have two or three farms and a big time sponsor or two on board. In the past Mini Sprints have been the alternative race car of choice. We have raced them for 20+ years, however the economy and competition for the popular motors and the design of the newest and fastest motors is going to cause the price of motors to rise for the Mini Sprints.

That leaves us with the D2 Midgets. While not as fast as the Mini Sprint in most cases the cost of the initial motor expenditure is usually less than a $1000.00 with most hovering around 3 to 5 Hundred dollars. The good thing about motors from wreck vehicles is they tend to get better each year (competition between manufactures). Unfortunately the National groups have ruled out the newer motors with the displacement limits.

An old engine builders saying is that Horsepower is in the cylinder head. This is very true and is the reason D2 motors perform so well even in their stock condition. Because of the 4 valve design they perform equally well from Idle to WOT and require a very mild camshaft to accomplish this task.

The national guys have chosen to allow after market rods, camshafts, valves and valve springs I believe. As long as they prohibit porting and larger valves most of these changes will not add much more power but let the racer brag a little bit about how tec his motor is as compared to his fellow racer. Keep the ports STOCK).:)

Now as far as tec:

Testing for rods and crankshafts>>>Drill and tap a 1/2" FPT hole in the crankcase in front of any rod. Insert a 12AN fitting and cap into that hole. Remove the cap and insert a bore scope and if you want to be hi-tec stick a magnet in there also, visual inspection should tell you all you need to know.

Testing bore>>>these little engines can not be pumped like push rod motors because you would have to disable the cam shafts and that would cause costly piston to valve contact on the other cylinders. However the spark plugs for the most part are all located directly in the center of the combustion chamber. They make a gauge to put in the cylinder through the plug hole to measure bore with.

Stroke is even simpler just stick a 12" vainer from Harbor Freight in the spark plug hole and take a direct reading.

Compression ratio>>>usually a bore scope will detect raised piston crowns and or aftermarket pistons. If the camshafts were kept stock then a compression gauge could also be used.

Camshafts>>>The best and easiest way to check camshafts would be to just measure gross lift. You would install two 3/8 x 1" bolts that had been drilled through the center of the bolt. Attach these directly over the intake and exhaust camshaft lobes using a O ring and standard nut. Make a fixture to hold a dial gauge and take your readings. When done the bolt could be covered with an acorn nut to keep dirt out.

Porting>>>We use a bore gauge again. Open the throttle body insert the bore gauge. Stock ports are cast and not ground or polished. Grinding and polishing is easy but getting that cast finish back is nearly impossible.

The D2 concept is new and is going to take a little time to get up to speed, it needs guys wanting to get into Midget racing to get involved to get it up and running. Once they prove their ability to put on a good show the purse will get larger>>>it is all about competition and supply and demand.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Tell you what I've never been one for spec cars but the more I look into the STR cars the better they look.
It's a perfect D-2 platform.
The purse is higher then for the bigblock mods also. A car that costs at least $ 50,000.00 running for 1200 to win compared to a $ 18,000.00 car running for 1700 to win. The Speedway Entertainment website has a lot of info, including a cost to run chart comparing Modifieds, midgets, sprints and more with the STR car. Also resale values which are interesting.
Then you can have both worlds, spec car to start. open class for the big boys.
I'm old and tired and don't want to screw around with engines constantly, from what I've been hearing the STR's are practically bullet proof.
Were heading down to tobias to check one out this week.

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Bob

If you race with them you are already racing with the big boys.:) They probably win a lot of races but then again they have a lot of experience and could do that in anybody's car. A bit of a pull for the Mid West Racer but if it is a good concept it might just move west don't you think?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Dad,
Thanks for the info but the point of my post was not whether or not tech COULD be done, but whether it WILL be done. As you said in your post, they COULD very easily pump the national engines - in the division that pays at least $2000 to win, but they don't. How could anyone believe they will measure cam specs or check for aftermarket (or modified) pistons, valves, and crankshafts in their "Red-Headed Stepchild" division that pays $300 to $500 to win? All the people I talked to about building me a D2 engine wanted to know how tech was going to be done. Everyone of them said measuring the lift of the cam was easy, but only tells a very small part of what you need to know. Some of the guys I talked to wanted to know about machining on valves and pistons. They said you can see the tops of the pistons through the spark plug hole, but what about the underside? How will they tell if someone lightens them? What about light weight piston pins and coatings?

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I could be more attracted to them, if they maintained the traditional midget look, these look like the first round modifieds, in the early 80's, of which I almost bought one, but thank God, they got out of hand too quick for me to get my ck written. From what I've seen, and yes, invested in, these D2 midgets are "overruled", you should be able to tech one with a qt of transmission fluid, and use the scale on the bottle, I've about got a 2.0 built, and minus the injection, I'll have under 3k in it, and it should be in the 260-275hp range, I also have the injection I got off ebay, 2 sets in fact, some gal was selling it for her boyfriend, I guess, I must be a die hard traditionalist, but if it don't walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, it ain't a duck. I love it when folks who know little to nothing about racing, and engines, get together, and write a rule book, that has wheels on it, "stock" classes suck, I don't care if it's rubber band powered, there will be more money spent, "squeezing" the last dollars out of your billfold, than HP out of your engine, the only guy I ever knew that made a "stock" class work, was Bob's Kart Shop, in Il, he maintained all the engines himself, you went to his race facility, paid your money, you drew a brass chit out of the box, he took it back in the parts area, found the 5hp Briggs with that number on it, carried it up to the counter, and you put it on your kart, and raced it, returned it at the end of the evening, he, during the week, cleaned and ck'd it, changed the oil, emptied the fuel tank, changed the tag on it, and put it on the shelf, ready for the next race, he had a good thing going, no way was anyone but him, doing anything to the engines, he pulled the side cover, removed the governor, and that was it. Sorry for the rant, but this could be a good thing, if kept the rule book KISS! Bob

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Sac

A lot of racers tend to get a bit anal when it comes to rules. Back 50 yeqrs ago in my early Go Kart days we used to fill the underside of the piston with cork and then varnish it. That was called stuffing the crankcase and worked in 2 cycle motors (at least we thought it did) There is no power to be had in a 4 cycle engine with the machine work on the bottom of the piston. I have seen a few motors pumped in Midgets and Sprints but not many in my lifetime.

Racers new to the sport tend to put too much significance in the engine. It is that thing that they feel is the real reason for a particular team being faster when in fact it is very seldom because of the engine. The National Midgets are blessed or cursed with a new engine that is indeed more powerful than the rest and because of that Owners are looking in other directions. The truth be known these so called overpowered cars are also set up by the best in the business. They also attract the best driving talent out there. So if the truth were known and these wonder engines were to disappear tonight it would be the same teams winning and the same teams wining.

So back to inspections the entry level race groups need some sort of inspection system to keep the newer race teams convinced that things are on the up and up. The Big Boys don't put as much stock in oversize engines and that is all you could do in both Midgets and 410 Sprints So the fewer inspections you see.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Damn it Bob, showing your age there with good ol Bob's kart shop.
My first engine came from him which I ran on a BKS kart.
Thanks for that trip down memory lane, now I feel old!

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The reason I love speedway motorcycles is because it's the simplest purest motorsport of all.
Rule book says 500cc. That's about it.
Nobody cares if someone has a big engine because barely anyone alive can even ride a 500 to its potential on a small track.
When you crash you pick the bike up kick it as straight as possible and try again.
I just wish it would stop snowing so I could work on the car, when its snowing and I'm working on it I'm getting snowed on, same with rain.
It seems the more we talk about D-2 midgets the more confusing it gets. I for one feel less intelligent than when I woke up this morning. lol

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Bob and I became good friends over the years, as far as I could tell, a very Christian man, not a joint out of place anywhere, built quite a facility in Illinois, large family, and all of them worked at the family business, even built a tunnel under the track, so people could go and come without everything coming to a stop, quite a risk taker, but that's what was needed, if there was a way to make a buck, he was doing it, and working at Cat all the time, I sold a lot of his karts, racers and fun karts, always treated me right. Yes, I do tell my age, every time I open my mouth! Bob

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Dad, if what you are saying is true, light weight pistons and pins, different cam profiles, tricked up valves, etc. don't make a difference, why write rules against them? If the cylinder head is the only thing making power, why don't they go with a rule against porting the head and leave it at that? If they aren't going to enforce all of the rules, all of the time, what is the sense of writing a bunch of rules? If one guy wins, and I know his car has modified valves or modified pistons, how can I be certain he will be caught? Can I file a protest? If I do file a protest, will they be willing and able to properly check his engine? If he is caught will he be disqualified? Why would anyone build a legal car and go to the track knowing people will cheat and not be punished? If one guy runs illegal engine parts and gets away with it, can the next guy run illegal tires? This whole deal sounds like you can run anything you want as long as it isn't too obvious.

🤔

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

Thank you for the kind words. It is my intent to keep it simple. There is no way I can stop someone from spending money but if someone wants to buy that $500 dollar engine at the junk yard I want to make them feel just as welcome and feel like they have the same chance to win the race as the guy who spends the big dollars. The bottom line we might not pay huge purses but I intend on publishing the purse prior to each race. I have already worked with many drivers and the bottom line if you have a question about racing with us just ask and I will do my best to make it work. No membership fees just come and pay a $10 pill draw fee and you become a part of our series.

Be sure to check us out next Saturday the 16th at our very first race being held at US 24 Speedway in Logansport, IN

Mr. Tinder,
I have one question about your series.
With no membership fee, or association with a club, what can the driver expect as far as insurance, ie: ambulance ride, hospital stay?
Not that any driver thinks about this, but we know it happens.

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

LJC

I would recommend STIDA. The price is right and it has pretty goo coverage for the racer. Maybe Jay can negotiate a discount?:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

I understand that concern about insurance and I have already made some calls to check into it and we will fully assist anyone who wants to purchase insurance.




We just do not want to add to the cost of racing by adding another membership fee into the mix.

Most series ranges between $70 to $150 and by the time you join 3 or 4 series this adds up. Then some series also charges an additional guest fee for non members between $15 to $30 or even more sometimes. This also adds up when you have already paid $25 to $30 a person for pit passes you could easily be paying upwards of $120 or so before you even pull the car off the trailer.

Since this is a grass roots racing series and you can race a couple times a week these cost adds up fast and then the car counts starts to drop. I do not want to force drivers to make the choice of what race can I afford to attend this weekend. Hopefully by not adding additional cost like the membership or guest fees into the mix it will allow drivers to race more often.

Dad,
I wasn't trying to be negative at all.
I'm fully aware of the drivers ability to purchase thier own insurance, but some guys simply do not think about this and should be informed about running with an unaffiliated association.
I like Mr. Tinder's idea, run what ya brung, rather than the very limited D2 engine rules. It's very similar to what the Illini Series used to be.

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Bill,

When I first started the series I contacted STIDA. We can work things out for those wishing to purchase insurance. If anyone is wishing to purchase insurance please let me know so I can do a group deal.

Jay

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If your worried about it you should have your own insurance to cover your medical, which will usually cover your ambulance ride.
Every driver or rider thinks about it. Never assume a small dirt track or promoter has any insurance other then liability, which wont cover your racing accident after you signed a release.
My helicopter ride was $ 65,000.00.

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LJC

The best race track that we ever raced at weekly was Brown County Speedway in southern Ohio. The very first meeting the promoter told us that he did not carry any insurance and that we raced at our own risk, and that if we were worried we should purchase our own. Never enter a race thinking the sanctioning body will carry enough insurance to pay all of your medical bills and other out of pocket expenses. It wont be USAC or any other group out there. Hopefully if racers qualify for medical insurance they will carry it. We have used BC/BC for several thank God Minor but very expensive hospital trips in the past. Enjoy your racing but get Medical insurance before you start or you may end up wards of the state in a not so good position.

I did not intend to sound curt also but I guess a lot of racers do not take Medical insurance into account before going racing. This includes a lot of young adults 18- 30 that think I just don't need insurance. If you race you better well have some

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

I agree with having insurance although in reality few have it. Hmmm, right rear or insurance. R/R everytime.
Eventually I'll get some, lol.

Re: D2 POWRI purse
 

As of 3:00 4/11
http://www.powri.com/ClientFiles/Ima...t%20Payout.pdf