D2 midget question
 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any info on the Chrysler 4cyl engines, DOHC Neon, PT Cruiser, World 4cyl? I'm curious if there are any in use, I bought a midget about a month ago, almost complete, it has a 2.0 DOHC Neon in it now, it too is almost complete, I just bought a set of injection for it, KSE pumps, fuel and steering, everything else on the car is new, just been sitting, waiting for me I guess. Not really interested in burning tracks up, just want to run something that won't take all my SS checks to keep running, when I can. Just wondering if anyone had ran one, or knew of any that were. Thanks! Bob

Re: D2 midget question
 

You might look at the Tobias Speedstr cars, I believe that is what they run.

Kellen, didn't see any mention of engine brand, from what I could tell, probably not what I have, but I'll look further. Thanks! Bob

Re: D2 midget question
 

Bob

It should be a pretty good little motor. I think it starts out with a little more power than the Ecotec. You can Google Chrysler World Engine and find out a lot of info. It would probably be my choice. But seeing how D2's are shaping up I might have to look at a V6 again.:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 midget question
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
But seeing how D2's are shaping up I might have to look at a V6 again.:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

You ran a V-6???

Re: D2 midget question
 

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
Kellen, didn't see any mention of engine brand, from what I could tell, probably not what I have, but I'll look further. Thanks! Bob

http://www.speedwayentertainment.com/specifications.htm

Re: D2 midget question
 

Originally Posted by c47:
http://www.speedwayentertainment.com/specifications.htm

Thanks for the website, I have been searching for engine specs on the internet, and as I already have an engine, was hoping to be able to use it, it isn't a real high output stock, and as far as I've found, must be ran pretty much stock, but one thing about it, there are plenty of them in the salvage yards, and pretty cheap too, that's what triggers my wheels! Might just get someone else interested also, not a huge Chrysler fan, but maybe something has been overlooked! Bob

Re: D2 midget question
 

Personally, I think I'd like to see them go with a "stock appearing" configuration on the engines, maintain the 2.0/2.4 size, but let you do some head work, add some good perf cams, and bump up the compression some, I think these engines would respond well to some good cams, compression, and some head work, minor of course, don't want to make them hand grenades, but not allowing any upgrades really costs more than what I'm leaning to, I've already priced the cams, pistons, and head mods, and so far it is around 1K, if you can tear it down and put it back together yourself, just can't really see a "stock" engine being very exciting, without being really costly. JMHO! Bob

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
Personally, I think I'd like to see them go with a "stock appearing" configuration on the engines, maintain the 2.0/2.4 size, but let you do some head work, add some good perf cams, and bump up the compression some, I think these engines would respond well to some good cams, compression, and some head work, minor of course, don't want to make them hand grenades, but not allowing any upgrades really costs more than what I'm leaning to, I've already priced the cams, pistons, and head mods, and so far it is around 1K, if you can tear it down and put it back together yourself, just can't really see a "stock" engine being very exciting, without being really costly. JMHO! Bob

You could have a talk with the powers that be and may be able to have some special concessions for your engine since it's only a 2.0. Couldn't hurt to ask!

Re: D2 midget question
 

:35:Bob

I wouldn't worry too much about cams and ports. A bump in CR would help you out a whole bunch on Methanol. These engines don't need ports and cams like you had in the Honda. Check out the cam specs on a 600 Yamaha>>>>not very exciting when you compare them with the old Honda. Since the Midwest Bunch is pretty open this year you can do pretty much anything you want to.

When thinking about these engines you have to forget all of your 2 valve ideas. I got a stock Ford Duratec 3.0 head and it flowed about 75% of the old style Esslinger head and took care of a 25% smaller bore.

I would probably go with as big of a piston as I could get with as much compression as I could get. Good rod bolts and a little stiffer valve springs do a good valve job on it lighten the stock valves and go racing.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 midget question
 

the badger midget rule is pretty much stock appearing. stock head ( no porting) stock block and stock crank. after that it's pretty much open. no titanium.

DAD, I forgot about 2 valve motors in 04, have been running 4 valve since, like the idea of changing valve events without changing the cam, just loosen 2 bolts and move the intake just a tad. I got three new coated sets of pistons of different compression ratios with it, so I should be good to go there, just no cams, so I been looking at them, right now I'm waiting on my hole in my back to heal, so I can get to lifting and pushing! Got lots to do, and little time to do it. Won't be long now before the season starts! Bob

Originally Posted by polecar:
the badger midget rule is pretty much stock appearing. stock head ( no porting) stock block and stock crank. after that it's pretty much open. no titanium.

Maybe Jay is reading this, and will rethink his engine rules! Thanks! Bob

Re: D2 midget question
 

Honest Dad, did you say you have run a V-6??? What type?

Chris, been trying to get hold of you, email, phone, no Chris! See you sold your car, what are you going to do now, buy another? We need to get together and do some talking, since we don't have to shovel snow for a while, I'm kinda getting started on the accessory stuff figured out, as for as repairs needed, and what I can and can't use, still have the car in the trailer, want to move into the shop soon, and put the Tq in the trailer till I get a new motor done for it, maybe by then I'll have them both ready for a motor, that way I don't burn out on 1. Take care, don't work too hard! Bob

Bob, that spike was our second car I originally had planned on taking to the chili bowl. Unfortunately, We didn't make it out there. We don't have much room at the shop so we sold it. Now I have to get started building my car for duquoin in March. I'll shoot you an email.

Re: D2 midget question
 

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any info on the Chrysler 4cyl engines, DOHC Neon, PT Cruiser, World 4cyl? I'm curious if there are any in use, I bought a midget about a month ago, almost complete, it has a 2.0 DOHC Neon in it now, it too is almost complete, I just bought a set of injection for it, KSE pumps, fuel and steering, everything else on the car is new, just been sitting, waiting for me I guess. Not really interested in burning tracks up, just want to run something that won't take all my SS checks to keep running, when I can. Just wondering if anyone had ran one, or knew of any that were. Thanks! Bob

Since nobody has pointed this out yet, I thought I would. Based on the "D2" rules your 2.0 Neon engine would not be legal. The list of "approved" engines doesn't show it.

GM Ecotec 2.4L (LE5), or 2.2L (L61)
Honda 2.4 L (K24A1)
Chrysler World Engine 2.4L
Toyota 2.4L (2AZ-FE)
Ford/Mazda Duratec 2.3L (23 I-4/L3)
GM Quad 4 2.3L and 2.4L
Ford 2.0L Focus/Scream Pre-2004 (see notes)

Engines must remain in stock displacement. Allowances are for cleanup.
Maximum displacement for 2.4L Engines: 2.4110 Liters (147.15 CID)
Maximum displacement for 2.3L Engines: 2.2868 Liters (139.55 CID)
Maximum displacement for 2.2L Engines: 2.2237 Liters (135.70 CID)
Maximum displacement for 2.0L Engines: 2.0115 Liters (122.75 CID)

Re: D2 midget question
 

RayPro, I had noticed that in the same post you have here, but from what Jay Tinder talked about, it would be, he is basing his engine rules off what Montpelier is running, some of which I don't agree with, as I don't some in this list, but whatever it takes to get drivers and cars back into midget racing, works for me, I'll run where I'm welcome, and not where I'm not! Bob

Re: D2 midget question
 

Ray

Bob is putting together a car to run with the Midwest Midgets based in Central Indiana.http://www.midwestmidgetseries.com/. I believe they are basing their rules off of the Montpelier rule package a much simpler and less restrictive set of rules than those designed for the National D2 racers.

Racing after all is mostly regional and those racers in central Indiana have different resources and options at hand than do people in other area's. Like an abundance of older Midgets setting around in peoples garages needing to be raced. I understand a few of the displaced cars from Illinois are thinking about racing with them.:)

The engine package will probably be very wide open much the way they were back when Midgets ran all over the country as local or regional race tracks. All Jay has to do is organize these guys together and plan his races around Montpelier's schedule. It should be interesting. Starting so late Jay has a monumental task ahead of him, and I hope some of the younger racers jump on board to give him a helping hand.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 midget question
 

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
RayPro, I had noticed that in the same post you have here, but from what Jay Tinder talked about, it would be, he is basing his engine rules off what Montpelier is running, some of which I don't agree with, as I don't some in this list, but whatever it takes to get drivers and cars back into midget racing, works for me, I'll run where I'm welcome, and not where I'm not! Bob

Bob, I do not represent RayPro. I think you need to be more clear when creating a thread title on IOW. If you're not talking about "D2" then I would suggest not putting that in your title.

Re: D2 midget question
 

Ray3, sorry I rocked on your tail, guess I figured I'd just ask, and someone would tell me, seems like midget's have gotten as complicated as beer, what most people drink, and what others can afford. Maybe I should have gone with my first idea, and bought a sprint car, and just run Paragon, which is still on the table. I'd like to run a midget, but not one that is considered a "national" series, or as it seems, a "D2" either, and I really don't like the "Midwest" idea, of running so many different variations together, going back to something DAD talked about a year or so back, take a junk yard motor, change oil in it, if you had the money, freshen it up, if you had the money, and race it, KISS, but then we get back to policing a basically "stock" engine, which I for one, don't intend to do, been there, done that, more time spent on that, than racing, so maybe we forget the oil change, and the freshen it up, just run it as it was removed from the donor, maybe even have the dipstick wired, so you can't even look, just hope there was oil left in it! But, I will admit, grudgingly, the Midwest idea has brought some cars, and drivers back into the game, and further stirred the interest in "more Midgets", which is what it's all about, having more than one track to run at would be great, I'm a fur piece from Montpelier, so that probably won't be on my list, but if it is nagged about enough, maybe something will come of it. Self, it's not D2, maybe it's B2! Bob

We are currently working out the rules package and will be posting it on here and our Facebook and web pages very soon. Our goal is the get a group of drivers together using a simple base set of rules. It will not be the size of a cookbook. Not really looking at that many car types at this time so it will not be a problem policing in the pits. It is our intention to give everyone who shows up the same welcoming and ensuring a safe and competitive race. We also want rules that allows the cars to make it to where the drivers can race in other series with only making a minor change at most to their cars. Most importantly is to just make this a fun series to be a part of.

https://m.facebook.com/Midwest-Light...urce=typeahead

Re: D2 midget question
 

Bob

I took part in the meeting Harold of Montpelier hosted expressing his desire to put together a class of Midgets to race at Montpelier Speedway several years ago. He took the input crunched it together and came up with a very simple straight forward rules package. His rules have served him well. We suggested that he govern and handicap his cars with a RR tire size. He did limit the RR for national powered cars to a 10" wide wheel and the use of only one RR tire per race.

This rule works well for most of the older Midgets and the Mini Sprints and Focus>Ecotec Midgets have faired very well. Several Main's have been won by the Motorcycle and Stock block powered Midgets.

As in any racing you always have a few better financed teams show up to race with fast and late model engines. These cars have a definite advantage over the other cars in the race. One reason for this is Harold always give the racer one heck of a race track to race on often working the track over before the Main events, making for a heavy fast track and taking the traction problem out of the equation for the higher powered cars.

I for one have been thinking about these cars ever since that meeting. I have said On IOW several years ago that I wished someone would bring this formula to Southern Indiana. It looks as if Jay may be doing that right now.

Bob you would be amazed how well the Mini Sprints and stock block cars race aganist the National Midgets. They are capable of racing straight up with a 10 year old National motor and not getting in the way of the newer motor packages. The argument that Mini Sprints are faster than the stock block cars and on the other side the stock block cars are faster than the Motorcycle cars are just that an argument. On any race night a properly prepared and driven car of either design can win.

So back to the question how to make the cars more competitive to one another. Number one would be pick the race track. Stay to tracks 1/4 mile or smaller. Number two limit that right rear tire. Even with a Mini Sprint it is possible to overpower that 12" RR tire on a slick race track, not so much on a heavy track. Races are won by the driver and set up that gets the most performance out of that RR tire.

Right now why not switch to an 79-80" RR or better known as the left rear tire (they are even cheaper). It has a 10 inch tread making it easier to overpower either by a Mini Sprint or the latest late model Midget motor that chooses to run for the purse that these cars will be racing from. I have been talking to some tire people about digging out an old RR mold with the 10" tread, if they do we will have our spec tire to race on.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 midget question
 

I have wanted to comment on this Bob but have decided not to until after the Super Bowl of Racing's Gator"DIRT"Nationals in 10 days when 4-6 different engine combinations of 40 or more racers from 6 different series. However there will be NO national engines allowed being none showed up last year with the RR tire restrictions I had on them. After 3 days of racing and all data is studied I will comment. Until then I can only go by what I have already experienced. Hope you race in 2016 with someone and within your budget and in a midget cause we need good guys like you.

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
Maybe I should have gone with my first idea, and bought a sprint car, and just run Paragon, which is still on the table. Bob

Bob,

Get the Sprint Car. It'll be the most fun you've ever had racing. Probably cost a few dollars more, but way less BS. Plus you can run it everywhere, without making one change, if you want. All Indiana tracks, USAC, west coast...

Re: D2 midget question
 

Local

The biggest problem with Sprint cars Is their darned size. These little Midget things move around real easy and an old man can pretty much get buy without a lot of extra help. Also it's such a long way to walk around one of them things us old folk tire easy. The cost of racing Sprints is probably less than Midgets because there is just plain volume of cars and parts out there. There is also something about Midgets that affect some people different, Heck I don't know what it is. I guess it is a "Midget Thing" and most people just wouldn't understand.:5:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: D2 midget question
 

I appreciate all the comments, guess I'm still on the fence, so to speak, and I've been around this stuff long enough to know it's a whole lot easier to buy, than it is to sell, and it can change in a heartbeat, here today, and gone tomorrow, and you are right, DAD, us oldies really don't have much business with something that requires us to walk a lot, and where I live, has dictated a lot of what I raced, and I also notice when the midget arrived, even with help, he was 3 yrs younger than me, it was a handful just to swap from his trailer to mine, if I have to make more than one trip around my rig, I have to rest, and sometimes it don't take that much, that little 90cc quad has given me at least another 8-10 yrs at the race track, I need to get me one of them "retarded" things you hang on your RV mirror, so I can at least go watch, the race car has kept me able to get in the pits, and then ride around, anyway! Never really thought about it as I got older, but the past 4-5 yrs I've been blessed with, have also reminded me how much slower I've gotten, but, when warm weather shows up, we'll see what's left. It is chronic addiction, racing that is, I quit smoking a whole lot easier, I have now been a non-smoker, about as long as I was a smoker, but racing and quitting, are like oil and water. Bob