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D-2 Focus engines
Just for clarity:
USAC and POWRi 2.0 Focus is allowed to Port and Polish Head (must be Ford Focus 2001-2004) Aftermarket Rods-Pistons-Cams-Springs-Valves-Retainers-Keepers-Cam Gears Stock Crank Stock Block Bore - 2.011 This is so the Focus engines will not become obsolete and can be upgraded no need for you to buy a complete new engine to stay competitive. |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by Wayne Davis: |
Only valve springs and rods no matter what size motor. That's what's in the rules.
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the motorcycle engine powered d2 midgets are allowed to run 1300ccs , i think
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Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by J47: |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by hullracing: POWRi: Maximum displacement 2.0115 (122.75 cid) ****see note**** There are many "built up" Ford Focus' out there and we do not expect them to fix or change anything. Again I have spoken to USAC (Levi Jones), POWRi (Kenny Brown) and Midwest D-2 (Bobby Griffinwhich was suppose to relay that to the IMRA (Tracy Hull).... it is as you see: 2.0 Focus is allowed to Port and Polish Head (must be Ford Focus 2001-2004 cyl. head) Aftermarket Rods-Pistons-Cams-Springs-Valves-Retainers-Keepers-Cam Gears Stock Crank Stock Steel Block Bore max. - 2.011 What this does is allow those with a Focus engine to become somewhat competitive with the Ecotec, Honda and MC power |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
:):44:
Honest Dad himself:6::6: PS. As per everyone at the St. Louis, "do whatever you want to the 2.0 Focus engines, They still won't be competitive" quote un-quote. I would consider that a challenge Wayne I like that!:D |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by Wayne Davis: |
Go to this Facebook page and send us a PM with any questions.
https://facebook.com/MidwestD2Midgets/?ref=bookmarks |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by SAC74: The Ford Focus is the ONLY engine this is allow so owners do not need to throw away an engine that is not competitive....most of these up-grades can be done for less then 3 grand and still use your engine ....you also can loose the clutch system. you will have to use the bell housing unless you find another way to route the water outlet from the back of the head. So the extra 37 pounds of block and 14 pounds of aluminum bell housing sticks forward 5" front of the motorplate. |
How many Ford focus cars are actually out there running on a regular basis with the d2 series?
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Re: D-2 Focus engines
Isn't a stock Focus 86mm bore x 86 mm stroke? 86 mm = 3.3858"; the 2.011 number is obviously an error,
We were allowed to run aftermarket cams in Focus motors in the Illini Series and Johnny Heydenriech actual won a dirt feature in one this year. It was a very dry slick track. Even bumping the compression and changing everything allowed won't make up for .4 liters more compression. Its like running a 360 sprint car vs. a 410 with no weight break. Having run a Scream Focus, a Scream Focus with comp cams, and a completely stock 2.0 liter Honda F motor against the 2.4 Liter Ecotec I wouldn't advise spending a dime on the Focus. Neat little motor with 1990s technology that won't compete with current stuff, Stock Focus was 140 HP, Screams were 185 HP. Cammed Scream Focus maybe got to 205 HP. The top Ecotecs have to be 250/260 HP based on track speed. |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Gear
Hot Rod probably had some sort of traction control in his car.;) Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Hot rod's traction control is a finely tuned right foot and a great deal of experience. He put on a dry slick driving clinic that night. It was an honor to have him race with use although the tumble he took at Grundy was pretty scary.
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Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by gearguy: Again this is for anyone that has a running Focus and can not afford to switch over and buy a complete Ecotec/Honda or Duratec but they would be able to upgrade a Focus for 2-3K and be a little more competitive...the way they are now it would be tough and ALL the stars would have to line up |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Gear
It is kind of nice that we have a class competitive enough to attract seasoned drivers back to come and race with us. Good for the class and good for the new drivers. Just to say that you shared the track with racers like John is an honor. In fact several seasoned drivers have come back to race Mini Sprints and D2 Midgets. For them you might say that it is a "No Brainer".:) Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Johnny won 2 races with his "antique" car.
Farmer city & Sycamore. And yes it was an honor to race with someone of his caliber. Some of you out there might wanna talk to a man of his experience when forming these "affordable" series. You might learn a thing or two. We had an interesting conversation at PRI. |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by gearguy: .4 liters isn't too much of a disadvantage. How can the cycle powered cars give up 1.4 (one point four liters) to the Ecotec's and keep up? Look what Esslinger is doing with a 50 year old design. The Focus motor might need a little more work but I bet the little Ford can get their numbers up and be made competitive. I think what Wayne is saying is that semi-pro racing is always going to be regional by nature. The groups need to be able to adapt the rules to meet the conditions that they race under. In the Indiana area there are quite a few old Focus cars that could be up dated to be made competitive cheaper than making a power train switch. I like the idea of National guide lines, as opposed to rules. Rule makers always tend to paint themselves into the corner when they make rules too specific. Then they try to fix that fact by installing an option rule. Wayne is using the option. The Focus will probably die out in a few years hopefully of natural causes. The Ecotec also will hopefully vanish from the scene. The reason engines stick around longer than their useful life expectancy is because rule makers make the rules or specifications so specific that the only power plant that can be raced is the one they wrote the rules for 50 years ago.:) Making improvements on old designs is one way to improve an engines performance but it can also be very expensive. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
The cycle powered cars are currently advantaged in the D2 rules due to the low minimum weight. You can't beat physics and for racing it comes down to F=MA, or power to weight ratio. The cycle powered math works out better than the driveshaft cars.
Giving up 20% displacement amongst the auto engined cars is very tough. You can run the 2 liters higher in rpm and match the horsepower of a 2.4 but you can't get equal torque coming off the corner. Restarts are a challenge. We lead three heat races for 7-7/8 laps only to get beat by acceleration off corner #4 when there was no need to "make" it through turn one. The Focus has had plenty of development done to it in other racing series. A very high dollar Focus raced in the Chili Bowl back in 2006 or so and showed some speed but once again, it comes down to acceleration off the corner to pass cars and the little motors don't have it. If you want to lavish $2000 to $3000 on a Focus to finish mid-pack at least you have that option. We're not allowed to unload our completely stock Honda F20 or F22 motors. I can't see the logic in that. |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by gearguy: If your Honda falls within the displacement limits why shouldn't it be legal? Then instead of the Ecotec motors every body would be racing Honda's, as they blew up their Ecotec motors and the cars would be faster and more competitive. :) Then when the Honda is eclipsed a new motor would be the hot set up and racing would continue to improve as it should. It may seem strange but in the MMSA weight is not such a big factor, and some considered it an advantage. Several cars were 125 to 150 pounds heavy and still ran up front an won, go figure? Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
The drive shaft cars and chain cars do not belong on the track together.
They are 2 totally different animals that happen to look similar but drive completely the opposite. Chain cars are lighter, accelerate quicker and have to keep thier momentum up. They also have a lot more left side wieght giving them a better advantage on slick tracks. Real midgets are slower out of the hole, have faster straightaway speed n scrub off more speed thru the corners. But just because they turn similar lap times and need car count you throw them together. It would be no different than throwing midgets and late models together because thier lap times are similar. And yes that has come up at tracks we have run, we have been asked to run a exhibition race between late model fast time vs midget fast time. So for you guys crying "integrity", you might wana chew on that thought for a bit. |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by LJC77: We race an FSC Chassis, others race xxx, and many other Midget Chassis are used racing Mini Sprints. There should be no difference in the speed either car will carry through the corner if set up properly and driven correctly. If you carry the speed through the turn then Torque for acceleration out of the corner is not needed. The big secret is to keep up the momentum neither motor likes to be bogged down. The only advantage I have noted is the cycle cars have is that they can drop down a gear for starting and bog the Automotive motors down so slow that they loose the drag race to turn one. This is the fault of the Flagman. Both cars drive and set up the same the only difference I have been told is the Automotive powered cars torque over under acceleration chain drive cars do not. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Like I said they look the same, but that's were it ends.
Have you ever considered the crank in a chain car is half the wieght? We all can do the math on the acceleration rate vs the 2. And yes same chassis, but put the 2 cars on a scale, percentages are night and day. And don't tell me that doesn't matter, why do you think in the taxi cab world the under hp motors get more left side weight? You see results of the snow ball derby? Winning car was dqed for 0.3% allowable left side weight. And on a slick track that makes a huge difference. Again results speak for themselves. Look at the big D2 race in October, at Jacksonville. Top 4 out of 5 were chain cars on a track that looked like an ice rink. 4th place car, a man with more experience than every competitor out there combined, with a non legal D2 drive shaft car could not touch the chain cars. His motor is a badger K 2.4L, not allowed by D2 rules. Facts are facts, you can twist the truth any way you wish, but there is no logical argument for chains n shafts to compete together other than make car count #s look better. |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
LJC77 is hitting the nail on the head. I've seen the same club attempt the chain drive/ shaft drive concept for more than a dozen years now. From my experiences, the chain drives always stunted the growth of the shaft drives. It's going to be a tough sell for the automotive engines, when the motorcycle engines are taking 5 of the top 6 spots like at Jacksonville.
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Funny thing shaft drive cars have won the championship 2 years running in the biggest "D2" series around. Everyone wants to knock every little thing involved with this "concept". If it doesn't fit for someone's personal agenda then it's time to bash. Ask the numerous drivers and owners who ran the series these past few years, not one complaint on who or who doesn't have an advantage, but there will always be the ones close enough to support and race but instead bash things they don't know on the Internet!
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Again keep twisting the truth to fit your agenda.
Listing facts is hardly bashing, it's opening the door to the truth to those like myself that have no agenda. Now Mr.Hull answer this, your champion is not legal now in your D2 series. Don't sweep facts under the rug to make your agenda look better to others. |
was Johnnys motor unrestricted with cams ?
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I believe it was bud.
Not 100% sure though so don't hold me to it. If you still have have Gillis's ford I don't believe it fits D2 specs either |
If I had an agenda it wouldn't be trying to say that both style of cars don't belong on the track together. What is happening in your direction is in no turn any affect of what we do on this side of the state. Obviously that's what the IRS had to do to survive years ago by making up a similar concept with a variety of motors. Well in turn I think I remember a 1000cc car running with Illini at Lasalle this past year and I didn't hear any complaints about that. Ive ran both styles of cars many of times and you don't see me favoring one side or the other on advantages and disadvantages. I prefer shaft cars because that's what I grew up running and that's what I like. I just don't see any reason why both styles of cars can not run together on the same track.
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And if you want to be worried about hopped up motors, my ecotec has rods. I had no problem consistently running up front. And if you look back the "not legal" current champ and myself were 1-2 over 75% of the season till I took a pole out at sycamore. Yes rules changed but I was not involved in that but I'm supporting the change for the better. Maybe you should follow suit or just leave it be cause I don't see you having a dog in this fight.
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It's in Joes car, probably obsolete now.
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Exactly my point Shreffler, this D2 "affordable" racing just made half of our cars obsolete.
Most of those guys can't afford a different power plant. Iowa's club made the same mistake badger did, outlaw thier returning champ with thier rules change. They throw words out there like affordability, a complete distortion of the truth. You do not have an affordable form of racing until you control the weekly expenses of racing. Most guys can not afford $300-$500 to go racing every weekend. I'm simply pointing out the fact for those that cry integrity. Shafts and chains do not belong on the track together if you use the phrase "midget racing integrity". Because for those that had a true affordable racing format, the outsiders were the ones who insisted changes had to be made for the integrity of midget racing. |
I agree, even my ecotec I just built last year is basically useless, not sure how injection and dry sumps make it "affordable"
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It's not just the injection and pumps,
D2 has made no effort to address, titanium, ceramics, coatings, shocks, or carbon. They did one thing affordable, they made it cheeper for a guy trying to get into midgets, but for the most part the engine is a one time expense. They pretty much slapped the average guy that supports them all season in the face. You don't do that to people who support you and expect any type of loyalty. To make a series succeed through out a season it's the reoccurring expenses that have to be minimized, and stand behind the guys who have stood behind you. No one wants to address that. Why do you think hobby stocks have 40 cars? It doesn't cost them hundreds of dollars to race each weekend. Why is the chilli bowl so big? Guys save all year to run that one race. I can race for 2 seasons on what most of those guys spend in a week. It's just a shame to see a series that opened up its arms to every style midget, national, chain, stock block,that had a formula to which all were competitive, you could race for less than $100 out of your pocket, get kicked to the curb. But all these other D2 clubs pound thier chest and scream that they are making midget racing affordable and saving it's itegrity while standing on the ground that was built before them. Simple lack of respect in my eyes. |
Congrats to Shane Morgan on putting his D2 in the show last night..
I did t realize our D2 cars were USAC Legal... |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
I believe this thread started with Wayne Davis attempting to make a simple clarification.
How's come these threads always turn into this? (It certainly isn't Wayne's fault). |
Re: D-2 Focus engines
Hate to bust all of you guy's bubble but you could stick a turbo on a focus engine and Gherke's "LEGAL" EcoTech will still walk the dog when he isn't sandbagging....
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Ouch first post is your name really "right foot rampage" lol
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Re: D-2 Focus engines
Originally Posted by hullracing: |
Ljc, I would highly recommend having an inkling of knowledge on what you're talking about prior to making blanket statements about rules.
I cannot speak for other series but, Wayne Davis has addressed titanium and carbon parts. No carbon fiber on the car whatsoever, and no rotating titanium (was originally no ti at all but that was changed when people started buying national rollers that typically came with ti bolts). As far as shocks go what do you want? Stock steel body shocks from Napa? Come on it's not a spec organization it's a more affordable organization specifically targeted towards the motor package. People can go buy a sellout from a national team for 5-18k, throw a "d2" motor in and go. The simple fact of the matter is, if you ban carbon, ban ti, limit the shocks, I'm just going to find some other place to spend money to gain an advantage. As far as your arguments go with the motorcycle engine cars having an advantage, I raced against them all year long and was not beaten by them a single time both on tight bull rings and large wide open tracks. Say what you want, but results speak for themselves. And that was both with bad maintained weekend warrior 1000cc's, and "built" sparr 1000cc top of the line cars. Quit ******** and quit trash talking the ideology/rules/organization of "d2" on the Internet. I'm beginning to see what revolution racing was preaching about in the last thread about d2 when he said "all you're dealing with are morons"..... |
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