Help me understand
 

I am not a driver, car owner or track owner/promoter. I am just a fan trying to understand the logic. Over the last couple of years there have been some threads and several comments about how purses for nw sprint car racing needs to improve, or costs need to come down (yeah...like THAT will happen!).

So this past Saturday night, Paragon drew 32 cars paying $1400/win and (I think) $150/start. LPS drew 22 cars and paid $1500/win and (again, I think) $150/start. Plymouth drew 15 cars and paid $2000/win and ?/start. Waynesburg (WRP) drew 25 cars and paid $3000/win and $300/start. Lawrenceburg/BOSS drew 29 cars and paid $1500/win and $250/start. Tri-State/MSCS drew 17 cars and paid $5000/win and $250/start. Using Indianapolis as a base, approximate driving distances (per Google) are: Paragon, 40 miles; LPS 47 miles; Lawrenceburg, 98 miles; Plymouth 122 miles; Tri-State 145 miles; and WRP 171 miles. Using 10 mpg and $3.00/gallon for diesel, the min and max costs for round trip fuel are $24 (Paragon) and $102 (WRP).

Yes, that is 140 nw sprint cars, which I agree is a LOT of cars. What I don't understand is why the track paying the largest purse had the second lowest car count. Is this due to the travel distance? Is it due to the sanctioning body? Is it due to the fact that a track upset a bunch competitors? Is it because the purse is "front end loaded" and not spread far down he field? Or is it drivers/car owners want to "cherry pick" and try and guess where the weakest field will be to get the best finish?

With that said, looking at the situation Saturday night, what incentive does a promoter have to take a risk and up the purse? If upping the purse means less cars, how is that logical?

Steve

Re: Help me understand
 

This was covered pretty heavily in a Tri State thread Also Waynesfield was a normal show I believe. Most of their fields are somewhat local to Lima.

Steve, don't try to think like car owners and drivers. It's not good for your health...

As a self financed car owner/driver what influences me unfortunately is "tow" money. On any given night based on 25-28 cars at any track there are 6-8 that are potential winners, there are another 10 that will make the main fairly easy and another 10-12 that are attempting to make those last 4 or so positions in the main. The $ spread difference between making the show and not is too great at some tracks. Example: $250 to make the show vs $50 to not qualify makes it tough to make ends meet and discourages attendance. Out of the 140 cars that raced last weekend at 5 tracks meant 40 went home or over 28% that didn't make the show

Re: Help me understand
 

That question has certainly been mulled over.

One take: Very, very few people make any money in auto racing. Many are in it to have fun (and when the fun goes out of it, it's time to do something else). Knowing they're going to be in the hole wherever they go, the purse is something to think about, but not the determining factor on where a bunch of guys show up.

Re: Help me understand
 

Some places are more fun to race at than others...

Re: Help me understand
 

b o s s was at the burg and I thoroughly enjoyed the great show they put on. I must admit though that I expected about 40 cars instead of 29, as they generally bring in a big car count at the burg. the next day I looked at area n w sprint car results and surprisingly it appears that most of the ones I'd expected to be at the burg who went elsewhere went way up north to Plymouth, so I don't think there is a good answer to the question presented.

Think maybe they just wanted an opportunity to run at Plymouth being it's not a 410 Sprint track every weekend...not tryin to ruffle any feathers- just think that might've been the case??

Many of us are just weekend warriors and the drive to tri-state is 6 hours roundtrip from indy plus the time change so by the time we stop at the car wash we won't get home until 3-4 am. When you have work and racecar to prepare from Monday-Saturday, Sunday is about the only time to spend time with family and if you get home at 4 am then Sunday turns into a recovery day and not a family day.

Re: Help me understand
 

Thank you for the perspective. I very much understand that point of view.

Re: Help me understand
 

You also have to look at the car sponsor. His customer base my be local to one track area and putting the car on a track a couple hours away might reduce his return on investment.

Re: Help me understand
 

The time difference is a big deal to the teams from the north, and another thing about Tri-State, it is harder on motors than almost anywhere else we race. I have heard of drivers being at 260-280 degrees after a feature down there on a regular basis. Not sure if it is the track being re-prepped before every feature or what it is, but I know we ran at 240 degrees last time there and normally are around 200 as much as possible. That place is normally flat out with the concrete walls real close, so I am sure a lot of guys consider those factors also. The racing is extremely tight in the corners.....It is a great facility, great track, and has great fan support. But when you bust a motor, or hit the concrete, none of that matters to the guy paying the repair bills....LOL

Re: Help me understand
 

$5000 to win and $225 to start and you have to ponder why they got fewer cars? :11: Two cars get half the purse. :7: We skip those too. :42::

Originally Posted by trecraft:
$5000 to win and $225 to start and you have to ponder why they got fewer cars? :11: Two cars get half the purse. :7: We skip those too. :42::

Amen

Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to reply to my question. You have helped me understand and see things from a different perspective. I for one had never considered the sponsorship/customer base thought, nor had I taken in to account the impact of the time change. Interesting thoughts all.

Re: Help me understand
 

Originally Posted by trecraft:
$5000 to win and $225 to start and you have to ponder why they got fewer cars? :11: Two cars get half the purse. :7: We skip those too. :42::

That's all part of why it's so hard to pin down. Different people have different reasons on which races they attend.

Re: Help me understand
 

Originally Posted by trecraft:
$5000 to win and $225 to start and you have to ponder why they got fewer cars? :11: Two cars get half the purse. :7: We skip those too. :42::

So if TSS went with say 3K to win and maybe 300 to start they would get more cars?

Re: Help me understand
 

If you allocate the $2000 you now have to work with throughout the purse, the $400 to start shouldn't hurt the car count. :23:

Originally Posted by jim goerge:
So if TSS went with say 3K to win and maybe 300 to start they would get more cars?

You sir asked the very question I was wondering. But if TSS did offer such a purse and another track (say LPS) offered $4000/win and $200/start would LPS win out because they are so much closer to Indy?

Re: Help me understand
 

Originally Posted by trecraft:
If you allocate the $2000 you now have to work with throughout the purse, the $400 to start shouldn't hurt the car count. :23:

Bud May I ask if you run with USAC? The 400 to start is lacking 100 from what USAC pays. MSCS is not USAC

Re: Help me understand
 

One would hope the better paying races would not be scheduled against each other. Then the fans, promoters, drivers, owners and the sport would benefit. And while giving the winner twenty times more than a starter versus ten times more than a starter is good for bragging rights, means less money available for the other twenty(or fewer) participants. :(

Re: Help me understand
 

Originally Posted by openwheelfan1:
You sir asked the very question I was wondering. But if TSS did offer such a purse and another track (say LPS) offered $4000/win and $200/start would LPS win out because they are so much closer to Indy?

That is the hundred thousand dollar question!!!! I think (hope) TSS would get more cars but and its a big but a awful lot of cars have to go by LPS to go to Haubstadt Plus factor in the distance saved too. I love both tracks, was raised going to TSS my whole life but when they aren't running you will find me at LPS. What Joe Spiker has done at that place just blows my mind :8:

Re: Help me understand
 

Was there another track in the state of Indiana that paid more to start than TSS? I am thinking most pay a hundred , I think the BOSS race paid 150 to start .

Plymouth was $200

Re: Help me understand
 

Originally Posted by jim goerge:
Bud May I ask if you run with USAC? The 400 to start is lacking 100 from what USAC pays. MSCS is not USAC

No to your first question. Not really comparing the two groups. Just don't happen to believe that giving half the purse to two cars in any situation is good for any sanction, track or the sport itself. I was merely adjusting the total purse without increasing it. :31:

Re: Help me understand
 

BOSS pays $250 to start and for BOSS top 15 in points it pays $300 to start. However, it doesn't stop there. With heat race money and seven bonus awards, most drivers take home well over $300 if they make the show. Tow money for non transfers is $100 but it is $150 for the top 15 in BOSS points.

Re: Help me understand
 

The BOSS race at Burg is not a fair indication of what car counts would have been. Burg pays $1500 to win for regular shows and paid the same for the BOSS race. But the car count was significantly higher because there were 17 BOSS regulars. The heat and bonus money and extra incentives is why we have 17 regulars . Had BOSS been in OH or PA, Burg would have had more like 15-16 cars.

Originally Posted by sprinter14:
The BOSS race at Burg is not a fair indication of what car counts would have been. Burg pays $1500 to win for regular shows and paid the same for the BOSS race. But the car count was significantly higher because there were 17 BOSS regulars. The heat and bonus money and extra incentives is why we have 17 regulars . Had BOSS been in OH or PA, Burg would have had more like 15-16 cars.

The burg has the best payout for a regular weekly schedule show in Indiana. And even though they might get some low car count it's a great racing event and the burg provides some great racing. Thanks to all the great racing fans and teams that makes this sport happen for us racing families. And thanks to all the burg employees and the safety team to make sure that we have a great time. Thanks

Alright so just gotta say it-this is actually a good problem to have it means that this sport is strong for non-wing sprints here in this area... We wouldn't even b having this discussion if we had two tracks runnin on the same night with same payout and start cost... Options... Yeah I know some will say not as strong as it use to b for car counts but c'mon some people don't get to c these guys run at their track they attend every weekend... Couple weeks ago guys that normally run Burg were at LPS... (Burg was not racing that night)..So I'm tryin to look at the positive side of things here!! Just think this is an Awesome problem to have!! U can agree or disagree but I don't think this will do us in... A LOT of people come to watch non wings from outta state... Just 2cents from a Non-Wing Supporter...

Lawrenceburg Payout
Sprint Cars Feature
1. $1,500
2 .$850
3. $700
4 .$600
5. $500
6. $400
7. $350
8. $320
9. $300
10. $280
11. $270
12. $265
13. $260
14. $255
15. $250
16. $245
17. $240
18. $235
19. $230
20. $225

Consi (Non-Transfered Cars) must take green flag: $100

This is an interesting link for a winged purse breakdown for Ohio and some others.

http://www.pitgate.com/forum/pit-pas...mputer-man-inc

Re: Help me understand
 

Doesn't this same thread topic show up this same time EVERY year?

:deadhorse:

Originally Posted by Morin Racing 98:
The time difference is a big deal to the teams from the north, and another thing about Tri-State, it is harder on motors than almost anywhere else we race. I have heard of drivers being at 260-280 degrees after a feature down there on a regular basis. Not sure if it is the track being re-prepped before every feature or what it is, but I know we ran at 240 degrees last time there and normally are around 200 as much as possible. That place is normally flat out with the concrete walls real close, so I am sure a lot of guys consider those factors also. The racing is extremely tight in the corners.....It is a great facility, great track, and has great fan support. But when you bust a motor, or hit the concrete, none of that matters to the guy paying the repair bills....LOL

Contact Michael Hughes at AFCO. He will get your temps down.

Re: Help me understand
 

The promoter does have an incentive. Big paying shows may make some of the budget teams shy away, because they know what and who they're going to be up against, but they don't make race fans not want to go. Big paying shows draw those drivers that are carrying on that tradition of the outlaw sprint car driver, in this racing scene and I'm not talking about "outlaw" in the context of a certain organization. I'm talking about the hotshot that'll go anywhere, anytime because they believe currently they are anybody's match. The fans that follow this religiously know where the Clash of the Titans will be taking place, on any given weekend and that's where you'll find them. Big paying shows may not provide a big reward at the back gate, but the front gate is usually pretty busy on those nights. Car count is severely overrated as a way to judge how the racing's going to be on a given night. Saturday night at Haubstadt or numerous times at Kokomo and TSS have proven that.

Jerry

One thing you see is guys that run south of indy a lot of times don't go north and vise versa. Fuel costs probably contribute to this then there's the points races at local tracks it has been a proven fact guys running for points will pass on better paying shows if their track has a point race. In my opinion the track owner promotes could try to work together a bit better in schedule so bigger shows could draw better for all.

Originally Posted by trecraft:
If you allocate the $2000 you now have to work with throughout the purse, the $400 to start shouldn't hurt the car count. :23:

More like $250-300 to start and $150-175 for non qualifiers and the place would be packed. If you only reward 20 cars, you will only get 20

Re: Help me understand
 

I would sure like to see the Indiana tracks paying the same as what the average of what the nations winged tracks pay/ is case you haven't noticed we're losing some of our better shoes to the dark side because it pays better. imho nonwing racing is generally a much better show than what the wing guys put on, yet the winged guys are getting the big bucks/ makes no sense to me:10: I'd gladly pay an extra buck or two if that's what it takes!

I know this has probly been stated before but when ur toting around a fricken BILLBOARD on top of your car I think u have more room for sponsorship on a bigger level... Take the wing off and less space for sponsors...if I could afford to I would sponsor a nonwing driver in a minute...

Re: Help me understand
 

Originally Posted by DirtHawk92:
I know this has probly been stated before but when ur toting around a fricken BILLBOARD on top of your car I think u have more room for sponsorship on a bigger level... Take the wing off and less space for sponsors...if I could afford to I would sponsor a nonwing driver in a minute...

It don't take much to sponsor, Buy the team a pit pass, A gallon of fuel. A Tire everything helps

You got to get in where you fit in