K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.co...a-sprint-week/


“We do not want to lose the heritage and history of midget racing and that is very important to me,” Miller said. “We don’t see a problem in midget racing. We see a problem in the big-track philosophy of midget racing, so we are focusing on restructuring our series around that in 2016."

To me, this says it all. He has no clue!
FIRE him now!

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

What does "We see a problem in the big-track philosophy of midget racing" even mean? Is he talking about tracks 1/2 mile and larger or 1/4 of a mile and larger? They only have a couple races now on 1/2 miles, is he looking to go to all races on tracks less then 1/2 mile?

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

I had the same kind of question... I do know that Powri has thrived by running smaller tracks.

Would have like to have heard more about the Silver Crown division. One of the things that has stuck with me since the Davey Hamilton departure was in Hamilton's exit interview he talked about how he had wanted to turn the Silver Crown races into more of an "event." Again, don't know exactly what he meant by that... but with sponsorship, money, prestige etc... those races at the fairgrounds should be a big deal.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Actually that statement suggests to me that he has a very real understanding of at least some of the problem. Show me a series in midget racing right now that is thriving running 1/2 mile racetracks. Powri is doing well by sticking with 1/4 mile and under (even 1/8 mile) tracks (barring Angell Park, which consistently has lower car counts than Powri averages). The largest race of the year is held at a track that is smaller than any track on the USAC schedule (Chili Bowl).

You needn't look much further than Indiana Midget Week where Lawrenceburg (the biggest racetrack) had the lowest car count of the week. While there are certainly other variables, it's hard to argue that size of the racetracks DOES have a significant impact on car count.

As a car owner and long time supporter.....I miss the miles and half miles. Times change though.

Here we go, Miller speaks so the fire is lit. It appears the response to his comments will dictated by the prism the reader is looking through. I read a commitment to preserving midget racing and the hiring of a racer, Levi Jones, to help make that happen. Seemed overall like a positive. Perhaps we should wait until the plan is revealed before getting too uptight.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

If you decide to fire him,,or get him fired,,I would love to take his place and bring back the good old days,,Silver Crown first..I'll do it for less than half what he gets now and have them put the other half back into the series championship pots.And yes I'd even leave my ranch here in Michigan and move to Indy.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

What should happen is your sorry rear end ought to get "fired" from this message board.

Jim Fisher

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by fish:
What should happen is your sorry rear end ought to get "fired" from this message board.

Jim Fisher

I don't agree with what the original poster says in this post, but a lot of people say a lot of things that the moderators don't agree with. However, that alone is not enough to get you kicked off. Just as in this case, IOW members kind of do the housekeeping on a lot of threads. This guy made a point, but didn't really make that good of a case to back up his point, then several others followed up and did so with their counterpoint. There are a lot of people on IOW who really know their stuff. If you're going to start a thread and make a controversial point, you'd better be able to back it up. Otherwise you'll more than likely end up getting cancelled out by someone who can.

Jerry

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

I know this won't be popular, but I think people who complain and whine on social media is one of the main things hurting the sport. I know if I was an outsider, I would think this would not be something worth getting involved with.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by Jerry Shaw:
I don't agree with what the original poster says in this post, but a lot of people say a lot of things that the moderators don't agree with. However, that alone is not enough to get you kicked off. Just as in this case, IOW members kind of do the housekeeping on a lot of threads. This guy made a point, but didn't really make that good of a case to back up his point, then several others followed up and did so with their counterpoint. There are a lot of people on IOW who really know their stuff. If you're going to start a thread and make a controversial point, you'd better be able to back it up. Otherwise you'll more than likely end up getting cancelled out by someone who can.

Jerry

You reply to me, but not the person that started this idiotic thread?

Jim Fisher

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by Wizard 05:
If you decide to fire him,,or get him fired,,I would love to take his place and bring back the good old days,,Silver Crown first..I'll do it for less than half what he gets now and have them put the other half back into the series championship pots.And yes I'd even leave my ranch here in Michigan and move to Indy.

Please post your resume. Perhaps someone can find you a job cleaning restrooms after the races if nothing else.

Jim Fisher

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by fish:
You reply to me, but not the person that started this idiotic thread?

Jim Fisher

I replied to your demanding that we ban another poster. The guy has almost 1500 posts. He's not going to be banned just because you don't agree with what he's saying. I'm done with discussing this matter.

Jerry

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by Jerry Shaw:
I replied to your demanding that we ban another poster. The guy has almost 1500 posts. He's not going to be banned just because you don't agree with what he's saying. I'm done with discussing this matter.

Jerry

I was demanding you ban another poster?

If that "poster" calls for the firing of ANY racing official I'm going to stand up and say it's wrong. I've been on the other side of the fence.

He doesn't even have the courage to put his name on his posts.

Jim Fisher

Countless posts by "midget experts" have stated one solution is to race midgets on 1/4 mile and smaller tracks. I read Kevin Millers comments to be a change in that direction. Yet, the thread turns into the typical bashing.....midget racers are their own worst enemy.

Some of the thoughts and ideas I heard today seem very promising and should generate quite a bit of interest if they are able to be implemented.

I agree with comment above, it's not a new concept that the larger tracks, although fun to watch as a fan at times, are hard on engines and often result in midgets getting torn up.

I read into it as Miller actually is hearing what people are saying and may restructure the schedule to stay on smaller tracks much like Powri. Now, what that would do in terms of events like the 4-Crown and what not I'm not sure and that's why I'm not jumping to any conclusions.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by Jerry Shaw:
I replied to your demanding that we ban another poster. The guy has almost 1500 posts. He's not going to be banned just because you don't agree with what he's saying. I'm done with discussing this matter.

Jerry

I don't know about his other 1400 posts, but I know the last 2 have been no substance, and all personal attack. Starting discussion is one thing, but instead of stating an opposing view, this guy just attacks someone, saying they should be fired.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

:44:

Most of you on this board are sheeple. You will follow wherever you're being lead off to. Including to slaughter.
I'd like to know, Mr. Fisher, have you ever owned a race car?
How about a midget?
Have you ever ran a race as an owner or as a driver with USAC?
We have had some very interesting discussions on this board, and we have beaten this dead horse so many times I don't have the energy or the enthusiasm to write it anymore. But I can tell you this. The only reason I post my opinion is because I care about the future of our sport.
Mr. Miller in my opinion has done nothing but hurt it. He's been paid exorbitantly for many years off of the sheeple that don't ask any questions about his performance.
I'm done with this...but thank you for expressing your opinion. That is one of the reasons of what this board is for. It's called freedom of speech in case you've forgotten that.

Brent,
Go back and re read most posts. There was substance. Everyone of them. But thanks for posting your opinion.

Jerry,
Thank you for your posts. I will back up my opinion. I am honestly tired of all of it, like I've said, it's beating a dead horse.
A. Midgets are stupid expensive! The money you have to put out for an engine that will compete is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you're at a 1/4 mile track or IRP. USAC has let the spending eliminate the middle class guy that used to be able to compete. Eliminate them, no car count, no car count, no fans showing up to watch. No fans showing up, no racing. It's pretty simple. $55,000 for a Toyota midget engine is a recipe for failure
B. Tires, I've said it a hundred times. Take away the Hoosier monopoly and open the tires up to all manufacturers. Hoosiers are engineered to last one night. Harden up the tires, take all the HP out of the equation.
It doesn't matter what size tracks you put midgets on.
C. My grudge with Kevin Miller is what he takes and what he's giving back. It's no different than our government of this country.
Pavement midgets have died on his watch after he watched what had happened to pavement sprints. He saw it coming from a long time ago and did nothing proactive to change the course it was on. That is a sign of a leader that shouldn't be leading.
Good luck with ISW Jerry. Thank you for caring!

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Kevin Miller gets to be a complete dictator in the decision making process. The board is a part of that, too, I think. IMO, a harder tire and choice of vendor couldn't hurt and could be a step in the right direction as far reducing costs is concerned. And costs are what are causing the big disparity between the have and the have-nots. As far as the engines are concerned, it's got to be real tough to turn away a manufacturer that wants to put money into the series. If you want USAC to go away as a whole, create a situation where nobody is putting money into it. Now, POWRI takes away some of the advantage that they have by running on smaller tracks. And at least some of the dialog that is in this article leads you to believe that those at USAC are starting to understand this. And even though this has happened during the Miller administration, Miller didn't invent this phenomenon. This has been a trend for a number of years. And it occurred in a very similar fashion, when Steve Lewis and his teams dominated USAC. It doesn't kill that type of racing. It just forces it to change. When it gets too expensive, regional series like POWRI, MSCS, etc gain steam and become more prominent. As long as we are there to support racing, there will be racers and race teams that will find a way to race. And calling for them to fire somebody doesn't accomplish anything. Nobody's getting fired. In fact somebody's getting hired and it's a 7 time USAC National Champion. I don't know what the future is, but that is a step in the right direction. We'll see.

Jerry

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Fish, if you're here this week, look me up, I'll be carrying a camera and wearing a Red Sox cap . I'll tell you my opinion, and it goes both ways.Some you'll like, some you won't. I just hope they leave Levi alone to do the job.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by team3521:
Most of you on this board are sheeple. You will follow wherever you're being lead off to. Including to slaughter.
I'd like to know, Mr. Fisher, have you ever owned a race car?
How about a midget?
Have you ever ran a race as an owner or as a driver with USAC?
We have had some very interesting discussions on this board, and we have beaten this dead horse so many times I don't have the energy or the enthusiasm to write it anymore. But I can tell you this. The only reason I post my opinion is because I care about the future of our sport.
Mr. Miller in my opinion has done nothing but hurt it. He's been paid exorbitantly for many years off of the sheeple that don't ask any questions about his performance.
I'm done with this...but thank you for expressing your opinion. That is one of the reasons of what this board is for. It's called freedom of speech in case you've forgotten that.

Sheeple? Baloney. I'm anything but that, and my past comments should make that quite clear.

As far as my involvement in auto racing, my mother carried me into the races as baby and I've been around long enough that I helped build the car from the ground up that Hank Lower used to dominate at Butler Speedway in the 70s. I raced everything I could get my hands on as a youngster and was quite successful at it. I've been in a sprint car and was left absolutely dumbfounded at the power to weight ratio and gained quite a respect for sprint car drivers because of it.

Anyone remember MARC Times Racing News? I was a writer and photographer for several years for Dick Beebe. Twenty years ago I took my auto racing stuff to a newspaper and believe it or not, someone has paid me to write for 20 years. For anyone that remembers the Dealer's Choice in Michigan, I wrote a story about the event in 2000 that was named the top sports stories in the state of Michigan by the Associated Press that year. Imagine that, the top story in the state for a whole year was a story on short track auto racing.

I currently am the sports editor at the News Sun in Kendallville, Indiana which was rated as the No. 2 daily newspaper of its size in the state of Indiana by the Hoosier Press Association. I do the auto racing writing for all the newspapers in a chain with 20,000 readers and set the scheduling of all the sports editors for the entire newspaper chain.

The very first week that I worked in Kendallville I ran an auto racing photo and my boss told me "no one cares about that." I said the same thing to him: Baloney. In one of last week's papers there were photos of the sprint cars at Kokomo in three of the papers. This is in a newspaper two hours away from Kokomo!

You say you're just out to help the owners and drivers. All you've accomplished is stirring up the pot. You aren't helping the situation, you are making it worse. I'm tired of trying to build up auto racing to a stick and ball crowd, only to see someone within the sport do their best to try to tear it down.

I'm sure everyone thinks I'm a big USAC supporter because of my stance. I'm a newspaper reporter folks, I get paid to tell it like it is. When it sucks, I'm not afraid to say so.

Why do I get so upset with your firing comments? I have been in the situation as a track official where someone on a message board called for my firing. I've been on the other side of the fence. And by the way, I did not get fired, but after completing the season I chose to never again work for another speedway or series.

You are preaching "freedom of speech" to the editor of a newspaper. I know this, I can be held liable for my comments, why shouldn't you?

You still won't put your name behind your comments. I'm not one of those that feels everyone that makes a post should include their names. But if you are going to call for someone's firing, have the courage.

Jim Fisher

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by team3521:
Brent,
Go back and re read most posts. There was substance. Everyone of them. But thanks for posting your opinion.

Who are you?

Originally Posted by Nate:
I agree with comment above, it's not a new concept that the larger tracks, although fun to watch as a fan at times, are hard on engines and often result in midgets getting torn up.

I read into it as Miller actually is hearing what people are saying and may restructure the schedule to stay on smaller tracks much like Powri. Now, what that would do in terms of events like the 4-Crown and what not I'm not sure and that's why I'm not jumping to any conclusions.

In the article Miller said "We want to be at Belleville. We want to be at Eldora. We want the Gold Crown, which is 5 or 6 years old, we want those races, which are established to have great car counts.”

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by team3521:
Jerry,
Thank you for your posts. I will back up my opinion. I am honestly tired of all of it, like I've said, it's beating a dead horse.
A. Midgets are stupid expensive! The money you have to put out for an engine that will compete is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you're at a 1/4 mile track or IRP. USAC has let the spending eliminate the middle class guy that used to be able to compete. Eliminate them, no car count, no car count, no fans showing up to watch. No fans showing up, no racing. It's pretty simple. $55,000 for a Toyota midget engine is a recipe for failure
B. Tires, I've said it a hundred times. Take away the Hoosier monopoly and open the tires up to all manufacturers. Hoosiers are engineered to last one night. Harden up the tires, take all the HP out of the equation.
It doesn't matter what size tracks you put midgets on.
C. My grudge with Kevin Miller is what he takes and what he's giving back. It's no different than our government of this country.
Pavement midgets have died on his watch after he watched what had happened to pavement sprints. He saw it coming from a long time ago and did nothing proactive to change the course it was on. That is a sign of a leader that shouldn't be leading.
Good luck with ISW Jerry. Thank you for caring!

A. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "$55,000" engine I'd have enough to buy a damn Toyota. Many on here just repeat what has been told to them without facts. I bet you believe a Toyota is well above 400 horsepower also. Pick up the phone and call Stanton sometime and get some real information. Go to a chassis dyno and get some hard data. This horse has been beaten to death, because people want to perpetuate a perception that is not reality. A toyota is not 55,000...at last check you are looking at around $35K. Expensive? Heck yes...stupid in fact. But, IF you run on smaller, slicker tracks that big shiny chunk of metal in the frame rails creates MUCH less of an impact. There are guys running very well without big dollar engines on those tracks - Justin Peck has a pretty garden variety Esslinger if I am correct not built by Esslinger but by Davey Ray's shop. Davey Ray has a Stealth with an Esslinger that I'm sure is not a "55,000" engine...Daniel Robinson does awful well with again, a pretty standard esslinger. Heck Justin Grant and that team is an older Gaerte if I remember correctly. If I had to guess I'd say these engines are in the $20,000 range - barring the Gaerte which Im sure is less. Bargain? No. But show me a big time traveling national level series that has engines that are much less than $30,000 anymore - go take a look at the Late Model stuff sometime. It's not 1995 anymore - I just recently started running a Micro and heck, you can easily put 15K in one of those engines. You can't stop people from spending money; creating smaller, slicker bullring racing mitigates the advantage of opening up your checkbook.

B. Can't say I disagree much there - as a racer I've never seen a tire rule save ME money. Though putting a harder tire on will do nothing more than make teams chemists with tires. Seen that in karting, you see it in IMCA stuff, you see it everywhere really.

C. Also can't say I disagree much in the treatment of the pavement stuff. The past of USAC is a rocky one and I would be the first to rail against some of the decisions - however, as to this article and the quotes that suggest a shift in the thought process and the hiring of Levi...positives in my book.

Good post Bcataldi. Don't know how much toyotas are but the SR-11 that Joe Dooling/BC run is listed at 35900 cant imagine them being that much more if they are.

http://www.stantonracingengines.com/...tem.aspx?ID=31

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

I don't like the personal attacks on the board and its the reason I know a couple dozen that no longer post. Right or wrong or only half right, They should be able to say it.

If a major league manager team stinks for several years or continuously declines, Is it not the manager who gets the criticism or the axe? Like it or not, Miller is the Manager and other than recently SC has been in decline for about six years. Yeah, some of its totally beyond his control. The economy took a dump etc. But some of it is.

I really don't think some people, Even some who claim to be IN THE KNOW get it. Its not the ONE 30k-50k motor, Its the fact to run the whole series competitively you'll need two or three of em in-case one takes a dump, probably two chassis and a spare. Be able to bolt a new tire on every night and sometimes wear three of em totally out in one night and be ready the next night.

Making one tire brand sure helps USAC's coffers but what about the racer who has AR sponsorship and can get em at 75 bucks a tire? He now has to pay the 150 the mandated brand is asking. Even if its a tad off retail. They're still losing.

Miller was hired to fix the finance of USAC get that on stable ground. Id say he's done that. However, Has the product suffered? theres only one answer DEFINITELY.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
I don't like the personal attacks on the board and its the reason I know a couple dozen that no longer post. Right or wrong or only half right, They should be able to say it.

If a major league manager team stinks for several years or continuously declines, Is it not the manager who gets the criticism or the axe? Like it or not, Miller is the Manager and other than recently SC has been in decline for about six years. Yeah, some of its totally beyond his control. The economy took a dump etc. But some of it is.

I really don't think some people, Even some who claim to be IN THE KNOW get it. Its not the ONE 30k-50k motor, Its the fact to run the whole series competitively you'll need two or three of em in-case one takes a dump, probably two chassis and a spare. Be able to bolt a new tire on every night and sometimes wear three of em totally out in one night and be ready the next night.

Making one tire brand sure helps USAC's coffers but what about the racer who has AR sponsorship and can get em at 75 bucks a tire? He now has to pay the 150 the mandated brand is asking. Even if its a tad off retail. They're still losing.

Miller was hired to fix the finance of USAC get that on stable ground. Id say he's done that. However, Has the product suffered? theres only one answer DEFINITELY.

Charles, I go to a lot more USAC races than you. I think the product is better than it was when Miller took over. The Silver Crown series crashed before he took over. Midgets are not that strong anywhere. A POWRI, USAC, and Badger race last week at Sun Prairie had 24 cars. I think that works out to 8 cars per group, but is tough to say since several of the teams just race. As for tires, I don't know of any major sanctioning body in any form that does not have a tire rule. Indycar, Nascar, WoO, All stars. The sprints are running more races since 1974. I don't see the product is suffering. 50 car fields will never sustain themselves, because the same guys load up early and decide it is no fun.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Brent, I don't know all the problems and don't claim too. Please explain to me how USAC runs a track within 50 miles of Indy, Has 23 cars, Meanwhile a track 200 miles from anyone in PA has 36 Non Wing while Lburg, Paragon, LPS, Waynesfield all struggle to get a full field?

Of course nobody in the group has a thumper motor and there might be a handful of new RR's in the whole group. But maybe thats part of the problem.

I 100% admire the USAC format the inverts etc. However the whole scenario is based on qualifying where only a track or two actually runs that format now and in most cases. Only against their own heat and the feature lined up on finsh of the heat.

It takes a ton of skill to lay down fast qualifying and the thumper motor as well in most cases. Meanwhile by race or feature time. The motor is secondary to setup and driver in many cases..

I don't know the answer. I do feel that prior to 2008 USAC sprint and midgets were growing while SC was slipping.

As far as actuall racing? Yeah, Id say right now there are more drivers that could win on any given night vs say Vogler, Elliott and Butler dominating a whole year and only five following the entire series.

But as far as particpation rate? More avoid it than join it. Granted, some should, but are there a lot of teams that could compete that aren't due to qualifying or whatever? I say there are.

For awhile it seemed that a local track champ or ho tshoe could topple em once every few races. That has gone the way of the dodo.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

I'd have to agree with the last line, there can be TOO many, and that indeed will drive off the field, seen it many times over the years, with the exception, when we weren't running for money! Bob

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Darned

I can't believe so many people get so excited over Midget Racing. To take a quote from a past president>>>" IT"S THE ECONOMY STUPID !!!" It is pretty hard to load the kids up and go to the races when you are on food stamps and have two part time jobs that means you are either working or sleeping. Yeh the economy has even hit some of the better off Racers. They could afford to race because they new how to handle their money BUT when racing starts dipping into their reserve cash they simply stop racing. Until and if the American Economy Engine ever get up and running on all cylinders, racing is going to be a causality.

Speed takes Horsepower and Horsepower takes Money. I never enjoyed Midgets at Big Salem, Winchester, or IRP. A short wheel base car going at those speeds and darting all over the race track is not enjoyable to me. Stretch the car out put a big V8 in it and call it a Champ Car (old habits die hard) and I am all for it. I guess that is just my personal taste.

Take USAC back to the Fair grounds>>not Indiana State Fairgrounds. I'm thinking county Fair grounds. Drop the ticket price where the Food Stamp Dad Might think about taking the family out and see what happens.. Kenny Brown and PowrI are having a real tough time of it. Have you ever tried to find a pit spot at Little BellVille or for that matter a seat in the grandstands just to watch a race. Yep they have it rough.

Now Kenny steps in and takes Division II Midgets under his arms. That would be Midgets that takes into account those of us Racers that think $2500.00 is enough for a power plant as opposed to $25,000.00 for an all out billet super duty race engine. Also from what I hear Toyota's don't have a price tag. Whether or not you race a TRO depends more on your last name, and your place in the pecking order. But you know what on a 1/4 mile track or smaller track a $2500.00 motor probably could run with their Big Brothers. :)

Maybe Mr. Miller Might see the light and not limit USAC's Midget starter class to the $10,000.00 Honda Midget Motor that would sure help us low dollar Blue Collar Food Stamp racers get back into Midget racing in the Mid west. One can only wish???:) If he did I can bet there will be a racer that can put that Honda Motor up front for him anyhow, because It is a nice Motor especially at a $1500.00 Junk Yard price.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
I don't like the personal attacks on the board and its the reason I know a couple dozen that no longer post.

This thread was started with a personal attack and I'm certain there are also a couple of dozen people out there that don't post here much because if it.

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Silver Crown (Champ Car) an event. Maybe in conjunction with NASCAR at a track like Kentucky playing second fiddle or a prelim or post race to the trucks for 100 miles. I would buy a ticket. This would probably help ticket sales and crowds for both groups of cars + you might see some drivers doing double duty. Who knows it might introduce another segment of the population to open wheel racing and visa versa.

Two problems Tracks toO long for midgets and tracks too short for Silver Crown.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: K. Miller's USAC announcement
 

Damnnnnnnn Isn't there a flag to take down somewhere !!!!!