Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Come 2016 some changes will be made to the engine package and other things of the current Division II midget series rules. I would however like for any car owner/engine builder/driver to weigh in on this so I can look at input from all angles. Not saying we will or we will not use it but everything will be considered. The current rules can be seen at http://www.ssmidgets.com/rules.html

I will be meeting with Kenny Brown (POWRi) in the next month so the current Division II rules can be revamped/written and established before Sept.2015. I will say this, to me each and everyone of you are "EQUAL" if you run last every week or you win 3 races a weekend, I don't care cause the rules will be written for the common good of everyone. The Division II rules will be written and enforced for 3 years '16'17'18. There might be, as in the pass have amended rules an amended rules will be enforced in a timely manner and will not be changed for any reason the day of the event.

It's ok to post on here but I would certainly like for you to e-mail me at wayne@ssmidgets.com and or sssprints@comcast.net...

Thank you for your time and effort to help Division II midget racing grow and stay affordable.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Deleted comment, clarification discussed..

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by buhrracing:
Clarification........Are you looking at changing the current SS Midget rules or are you going to utilize POWERi rules into the SS Midget series going forward exclusively. The reason I ask is there are LOTS of differences between the two existing series rules that makes a big difference here. Your thread is indicating look at the SS Midget rules, not POWERi.

So are you adding/changing existing SS Midget rules to incorporate "Some" POWERi rules or is the SS Midget series going all out exclusive POWERi rules?

POWRi SSMS and POWRi MWD-2 are the same rules..

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Heard Powri allows Carbon Fiber....

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by smokintires:
Heard Powri allows Carbon Fiber....

smoke

They allow it in the National Midgets Rules. Should not be required with weigh rule as it is unless you want to cover your lead weights with it.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

No mention of it in the Midwest D2 (Powri) rulebook other than no carbon/composite floor pans....


Whether I want to strap lead to my car and run a carbon body or run a glass body with no lead (were talking a difference of 15 pounds here MAYBE), is my own prerogative.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by smokintires:
No mention of it in the Midwest D2 (Powri) rulebook other than no carbon/composite floor pans....


Whether I want to strap lead to my car and run a carbon body or run a glass body with no lead (were talking a difference of 15 pounds here MAYBE), is my own prerogative.

Smoke I don't think you could gain 15 pounds even if you went with $2000.00 worth of Ti. also. Rules that tell a racer they can't do something only make some racers want to do it more. The trick is to make a rule so that spending all that money doesn't do the guy any good. I like lead sheet in the bottom of the seat only as one of the ways to do that.

Sounds like the rules are being consolidated as we speak. So I wouldn't jump the gun just yet.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Make some fantasy rule that makes carbon have no advantage. Ill still want/do it because I like the look.

You old guys I think just get bored and start making rules up that don't need to be in place (or in your case dad, writing out long winded responses with a bunch of hooplah most don't understand or read lol).... You guys need a secondary hobby for when you're not at the racetrack that doesn't include racing ********.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

I like this smokintires guy.....

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by smokintires:
Make some fantasy rule that makes carbon have no advantage. Ill still want/do it because I like the look.

You old guys I think just get bored and start making rules up that don't need to be in place (or in your case dad, writing out long winded responses with a bunch of hooplah most don't understand or read lol).... You guys need a secondary hobby for when you're not at the racetrack that doesn't include racing ********.

Smoke

Amen>>>>that weight rule should cover Carbon fiber and Ti. Nobody hates bull s$1T rules more than me. If you want to show up with a $400,000.00 hauler with a Ti frame and carbon fiber body more power to you I'll even come over an admire your equipment a little. You earn your money you should be allowed to spend it on whatever you wish. But you should also have to make the weight rule. It would probably take a 2" thick lead plate. In fact you might have to result to Silver or Gold for the additional weight. \

For some of us we really don't need another hobby My Boat hasn't been i the water for 25 years now. If you manage to keep racing for 50+ years you may have a few changes in your outlook at racing. The prettyest car is the one out front, You know I raced with a guy that had the first carbon fiber bodies out of the mold. Before the carbon fiber his cars were always a beautiful dark Blue with big old real Gold leaf "6" s on them. They were a always lot prettier than his carbon fiber cars. Come to think of it he had a guy that later took the nick name "Smoke" drive for him.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Well shoot maybe we can see eye-to-eye on some things..... Now if only you could drill that into these "d2" guys heads..... Carbon wont make a damn bit of difference as long as the car makes weight.... Sure we could argue then you could put the weight to the left, etc etc..... That's all good and fine- if they want to run carbon they either need to strap the lead to their seat (like you stated with lead sheet) or run a steal motorplate which is 30 pounds all by itself. There, problem solved- everyones happy.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Smoke

I have been buttin heads with Wayne for several years now. He is a good guy >>> I have never met him in person but through our correspondence I know he is all for the racer. Money spent on race cars is always a difficult subject because no-body wants any body including the government telling them what they can do with their money. I am more of a guide line type guy, rules are too easy to bend. I went to a demolition derby last week end. The rule book or guide lines were 6 sentences long. I'll be darned a guy showed up violating two of those rules and wanted to fight because they did not allow him to run. I guess racers are red necks whatever they race.

I have always wanted a fiberglass guy to make a plug of a tail tank so he could make a carbon fiber skin to dress up that dull black plastic. Wouldn't make you lighter but it sure would make you look racy.

Wane's reason for posting was to get Ideas, not fights, all we can do is express our concerns and reasons for concern let him think about it and make the rules that we all race by. Benevolent Dictator's are the best way to run a sanctioning body by far.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

At 1125 lbs, you should be able to build a good car without any Ti or carbon. Don't need to outlaw it because they won't gain a advantage. Rules need to be simple. Maybe you should use POWRI national rules with only the engine specs being different.

Already starting to see some pricey engine builds. Can spend a lot money without porting or Ti engine components. Hope I'm wrong but, don't think dangling the "low buck" carrot is going work in the near future. You can already see who has a stock long block and who doesn't. Cost will determine the growth of this class.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

To some, ti or carbon isn't about the lightweight advantage.... Some people just live having nice parts.

Grade 8 bolts are bulky and ugly. We had a surplus of ti bolts from our aprintcar days so a lot of those got put on our midgets just because we had them, ttheyre stronger, and they look nicer then some bulky gold grade 8 bolt.

I've been harping on Wayne for carbon for months now... again- because I like the way it looks. Luckily we met a mutual ground for that subject but if he allowed it, I'd run it- not for the weight advantage since I'm already right at 1125 but for the looks.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

my PM box was full :14: ...have cleared it and can now receive private messages:31:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by xoxide:

Grade 8 bolts are bulky and ugly. We had a surplus of ti bolts from our sprintcar days so a lot of those got put on our midgets just because we had them, they're stronger, and they look nicer then some bulky gold grade 8 bolt.

I've been harping on Wayne for carbon for months now... again- because I like the way it looks. Luckily we met a mutual ground for that subject but if he allowed it, I'd run it- not for the weight advantage since I'm already right at 1125 but for the looks.

If you did not have a surplus of Ti bolts on hand, but had to spend a $1000.00 to have them would you have bought the Ti or use it to purchase tires for the season....or maybe put it back in case you crashed?

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Certain bolts yes, others no. All the radius rod/shock spuds /half nuts I'd spend the money on again in an instant. Random bolts likeneerf bar bolts, probably not.

If I remember right the whole ti spud kit for radius rods is only 1-200 which isn't bad in the grand scheme of things. I enjoy buying cool parts after I have the essentials.. Anodized nuts, ti bolts, etc.... No different than modifying my street car to my likings.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by xoxide:
To some, ti or carbon isn't about the lightweight advantage.... Some people just live having nice parts.

Grade 8 bolts are bulky and ugly. We had a surplus of ti bolts from our aprintcar days so a lot of those got put on our midgets just because we had them, ttheyre stronger, and they look nicer then some bulky gold grade 8 bolt.

I've been harping on Wayne for carbon for months now... again- because I like the way it looks. Luckily we met a mutual ground for that subject but if he allowed it, I'd run it- not for the weight advantage since I'm already right at 1125 but for the looks.

Xoxide

You ain't seen my grade 8 bolts after about 15 minutes in my lathe (a 1/4 inch hole all the way through it machined bevel for rod end side of the head for clearance and an under cut on the head to cut down on weight and make it look trick). The problem is a lot of guys race out of magazine articles and their back pocket. Sometimes a little ingenuity goes a long way in racing. Wayne's heart is in the right place but it makes him come across as a bleeding heart liberal. Let the guys with more money than brains run what they want (make them put the weight in the most un helpful place) . The next season some good old boy will get a heck of a deal on that race car that did not perform up to the rich guys expectations and he can move on to another "Hobby".;)

Wayne most of them guys don't plan on crashing>>>in fact If my memory hasn't failed me they are usually the guys that complain about some aggressive young kid when he taps them to move them over to get by them. Perhaps a better racing Hobby for a lot of guys might be Vintage Racing.:):)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I'm amazed at the number of teams that dont have any machine tools. Been in a number of shops over the years and lucky to see a drill press in most of them.

I just drilled out some grade 8 bolts for a friend recently in my lathe. Had fun chatting while drilling /turning them.They asked how much I paid for the lathe. I paid a lot less than most people would think,and add tooling as I find it cheap

Has the thought ever occurred that the grade 8 bolt design was engineered to keep all material in tact to become a grade 8 strength? Im no engineer, but i would say its strength was just weekend in my opinion. buying Ti bolts are specific to the application and designed to be light weight with same strength characteristic. Now you just went into the Grey Area of the rule book about the actual design of the bolt and the rule Grade 8 only..lol

I dont really care if people are allowed to use Ti or not, people are going to spend money in other areas they could have spent on Ti so it balances out. For instance, im 40lbs over weight, instead of being able to buy Ti bolts to reduce weight im just going to buy a light weight seat, lighter steering wheel, lightw weight motor plate. So as you can see i spent the same amount actually more just in a different place. As long as there is a min weight rule, who cares. So either way your spending money.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by Andrew S. Quinn:
I'm amazed at the number of teams that dont have any machine tools. Been in a number of shops over the years and lucky to see a drill press in most of them.

I just drilled out some grade 8 bolts for a friend recently in my lathe. Had fun chatting while drilling /turning them.They asked how much I paid for the lathe. I paid a lot less than most people would think,and add tooling as I find it cheap

Andrew

The name on my lathe is South Bend>>>it is older than I am and I date back to Harry Truman >>> the computer running the darned thing has lost a lot of its memory and it wont hold a tolerance to .0001. But it adds greatly to my enjoyment of racing I call it whittling
. The guys with Money and no desire or inclination are missing a lot of what racing is about. Don't say they can't do something>>> just make it so that guys like me do not feel at a disadvantage to these other racers. Racing is an addiction >>>thank God a lot of these guys don't get addicted>>>they are probably the lucky ones.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by buhrracing:
Has the thought ever occurred that the grade 8 bolt design was engineered to keep all material in tact to become a grade 8 strength? Im no engineer, but i would say its strength was just weekend in my opinion. buying Ti bolts are specific to the application and designed to be light weight with same strength characteristic. Now you just went into the Grey Area of the rule book about the actual design of the bolt and the rule Grade 8 only..lol

I dont really care if people are allowed to use Ti or not, people are going to spend money in other areas they could have spent on Ti so it balances out. For instance, im 40lbs over weight, instead of being able to buy Ti bolts to reduce weight im just going to buy a light weight seat, lighter steering wheel, lightw weight motor plate. So as you can see i spent the same amount actually more just in a different place. As long as there is a min weight rule, who cares. So either way your spending money.

Buhr

Did you stop to consider that just maybe a 1/2" grade 8 bolt might be a bit "OVERKILL". Indy cars and Formula I race cars use 5/16 and 3/8" sized bolts to perform the same function.:) We race 75 to 100 pounds over weight and still manage to run up front.;) Do not worry so much about weight and Horsepower the secret is someplace else. You will spend yourself broke trying to beat some racers.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Believe me, I work in other areas and do not get caught up in that aspect. Ill take an overweight car with an awesome setup any day :) Our car is setup today weighing in at 1168 when minimum is 1125, and yes I have weights on the car because i want to meet certain numbers to make ut handle better. Wanye can validate as it is a car in his series..

As far as the grade 8, im suren if you call the bolt manufacture they will advise against it weather it is still the same strength or not to cover there ass...im just saying your basically making a light bolt using other means and accomplishing the same out come.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Would you be comfortable mounting your seat with these altered lightened grade 8 bolts?

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by Andrew S. Quinn:
I'm amazed at the number of teams that dont have any machine tools. Been in a number of shops over the years and lucky to see a drill press in most of them.

I just drilled out some grade 8 bolts for a friend recently in my lathe. Had fun chatting while drilling /turning them.They asked how much I paid for the lathe. I paid a lot less than most people would think,and add tooling as I find it cheap

X2!!!
I don't think I could breathe or sleep at night if I didn't have a lathe or milling machine close by! I don't know how people live without them. My mill and lathe are both from South Bend. They are much younger than me as they were among the last ones made here, and I'm sure they'll continue to do their jobs long after I'm gone.

Just food for thought....not everyone thinks a like and have different outlooks on topics, thats what makes the world go round..

I look at this topic of grade 8 bolts. I choose not to go the drilled and milled down method as i personally think in my mind it weakends the bolt integrity. I would prefer to buy a fabricated light weight bolt designed for complete safety reasons in my own mind and the safety of my son...i know we are both accomplishing the same outcome just in a different manner. Did I spend more, maybe maybe not..i would buy bolts, you bought a lathe and used existing bolts that was purchased with car or bought additional new bolts. I know you already had thr lathe but did purchase at one time.

Besides i dont habe room in my garage as it is....lol

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by buhrracing:
Believe me, I work in other areas and do not get caught up in that aspect. Ill take an overweight car with an awesome setup any day :) Our car is setup today weighing in at 1168 when minimum is 1125, and yes I have weights on the car because i want to meet certain numbers to make ut handle better. Wanye can validate as it is a car in his series..

As far as the grade 8, im suren if you call the bolt manufacture they will advise against it weather it is still the same strength or not to cover there ass...im just saying your basically making a light bolt using other means and accomplishing the same out come.

buhr

Did you know that there are actually manufactures that are taking 4130 tubing and threading it and then welding nuts to the other end thus making light weigh bolts. Racing is all about experimenting and taking things to their limits. Drilling fasteners is old school racing>>>grade 8 bolts are under stressed that strength specified is probably 1/2 of its real yield strength is. Wonder why they drill torsion bars? Would a chassis built out of 4130 bar be stronger than one built out of 4130 tube? The strength is not in the middle of the round rod the strength is found on the outside of the part. Sounds like a good time to do some reading and research?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Smokintires....Um NO!!

DAD...i do not have a machine shop at my disposal in my garage. My point is there are different ways of accomplishing the same no matter how you choose to do so. Its the piece of mind and how i process things in my head and what i think is the right way, no matter if everyone else diagrees.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by buhrracing:
DAD...i do not have a machine shop at my disposal in my garage. My point is there are different ways of accomplishing the same no matter how you choose to do so. Its the piece of mind and how i process things in my head and what i think is the right way, no matter if everyone else diagrees.

Buhr

I race my kid also>>>and would do nothing to place him in danger.

For the price of the titanium and carbon fiber you could buy a nice used 9" lathe and a small Milling machine later. Whittling metal is like whittling wood a very enjoyable experience and once you have used that stuff a few times it will be a toss up of who leaves first the wife or your machines.:)

A true learning experience for your kid. Did I mention that I started my working life as a shop teacher before those smarter than me decided shop was too expensive and not a worthwhile endeavor for students.

Buhr>>>Are you guys racing pavement?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I also have a South Bend Lathe. The O'Brien brothers were the Henry Ford's of the lathe business,in making the most fundamental of all machine tools, the lathe.


There are more than one way to skin a cat,but you can hack away on things very crudely, or use a lathe and mill,and make nice parts.

I think back to my younger days in Maine working on friends Figure 8 cars that were built very crude,and wonder how we ever got those cars built without a Lathe and mill. Life would have been much easier if we had them at our disposal back then.

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

This was not intended to be a discussion about Ti bolts vs. grade or who has a lathe or who does not. I was suppose to be about gathering "DATA" on engines rules such as to:

2.5 max or 2.4 max
after market parts vs. stock
cost of engine configurations
how to kept cost to a min. vs allowing more $$$ to be spent
Stock components vs stock mix and match


unlike other racing organizations I was giving the racer the opportunity to have a voice but it seems that I hear a great verse of a song in my head:

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall and did it my way

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

National midgets should be allowed to compete (maybe with a spec RR tire or something). The national midgets make up 95% of the midget population already, so they would help car counts shoot through the roof. It's working great for Montpelier...

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by Wayne Davis:
This was not intended to be a discussion about Ti bolts vs. grade or who has a lathe or who does not. I was suppose to be about gathering "DATA" on engines rules such as to:

2.5 max or 2.4 max
after market parts vs. stock
cost of engine configurations
how to kept cost to a min. vs allowing more $$$ to be spent
Stock components vs stock mix and match


unlike other racing organizations I was giving the racer the opportunity to have a voice but it seems that I hear a great verse of a song in my head:

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall and did it my way

Wayne

Thank you>>>I didn't think you was ever going to bring it up? The way I see things and keep in mind I am a little over the hill and my brain and some of my other body parts don't work as good as they once did, My love of the sport has never waned one little bit.

Racing should be about using your intelligence to build a better mouse trap and not your ability to empty your pocket book faster than the other guy. Racing should be about making things better and more efficient>>>improving the breed so to speak.

I hate rules just for the sake of filling up rule books and making racers resort to thinking of ways to skirt the limits, (a fun part of racing).

After reading the rules several time and sleeping on them a few times during the day their would be only 2 rules that intrest me.

1. No cockpit adjustable shocks. I bought into the concept at the inception of the Idea. First it was just the left rear shock and the ability to adjust rebound to meet track changing conditions. A bit pricy back then but we still race with the same shock, so if I get my accountant to depreciate them out over 10 years that brings the cost down to $50.00 a season. In the hands of a capable driver they can sure save you from yourself on occasions. When they first appeared Tony Stewart was driving for my buddy in Indy. Tony was young and full of knowledge and would invariably come in with the shocks adjusted the wrong way. Ralph pulled the pin out of the adjuster cable and let his young driver turn the knob as much as he wanted to.

Many times things like rebuild-able shocks are a wise investment over the cheaper variety and by only requiring one shock to take the place of 4 or 5 shocks we also save money there.

2. Engine displacement and after market parts for the internals?

A. I like the displacement of 2500cc's over 2400 cc's. Why well when we set it a 2400 cc's we are using the favorite motor at the time the Ecotec as a base line. Most engines are based on 1000cc> 1500cc>2000cc>and 2500cc. I don't know why but they do. We are talking about a difference of 100 cc's or 6 cubic inches about the size of a good weed eater or mo-ped. For this extra 6 cubic inches you make motors like the new Ford Mazda duratec>Nisson and Toyota and a bunch of other motors legal to race. There might be some winners in these other engines but we wont know unless we give them a chance. This is from the mouth of an experimenter.

You mention porting for the little Focus motor they need it to be competitive but this is an added expense for the non DIY racer. Right now Ford has a 2500cc motor in the system maybe it would be more competitive than the little 2000cc version with the porting option.

We noted where Esslinger the Ford 4 banger specialist have expressed interest in the D II class. They want to take a little Focus and with just a few slight of hand tricks like Stroking the crank and boring the block make a competitive Focus. There went the neighborhood.

For that extra 6 cubic inches why not give up Rods and pistons? Allowing decking for compression but take that set of $1000.00 pistons and $1000.00 rods off of the table. You can still twist her but the internals will limit for how long you twist her. Cam shafts and valve springs I guess would be OK but stock valves should stay. Lets keep tec as simple and objective as possible as we can with a bore scope.

Whenever after market machine work or parts enter into the equation the cost starts to take off like a rocket ship.

I think there is a place for the after market people. They need to make motor plates that accommodate a starter. They need to make headers and mufflers (maybe even a hone we can hone the inside of the pipe for that extra surge of power.) They need to make bolt on fuel injection both Mechanical for the purist and Electronic for us better informed and lazy racers. There is even a need for air cleaners. But keep them out of the insides of the motor, or we will be talking about sy\ky rocketing cost of Division II racing. On part mixing let them do it stock looks stock and you don't need part numbers stamped on them to be sure they are legal. How else could Bobby and I run our YamaSaki motors???:D

Next>>>>>looking a head motors don't stay in the system for 50 years anymore, instead the salvage people simply melt them down to their elements and make newer and more efficient motors. The 1000cc forced induction motors are on the horizon we need to start researching them and figure how they will enter into our equation. Then we go to Electric cars and Batteries all we have to do is ask Casey Shuman about them Beasts.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

DaD, no strictly dirt down here in Florida. Sorry if i implied not concerned about safety, i was referring to my thought process and why i choose to do the things i do...

Wayne,
The original post implied engine packages and other things...So that opened the door up for other conversations..:)

All the chatter is useful information that could be absorbed into decisions that are being made as tou can see there are multiple thought processes of racers and crew chiefs in the way tjey see the light of different topics..

I understand the motive to make all series an equal rule book and thats all good It doesnt matter if you allow Ti or not, it just makes people like me spend money elsewhere to see the car go fast, so if it is to make it affordable to not allow Ti, then your wrong. It will be spent elsewhere. We are racers at heart and want to as fast as we can.

Just like tires....by mandating tires only henders the choices but your still going to buy them. For instance you mandate rr tO SP2 only, at our tracks you will be biying a tire every race, by allowing options you save my sp2 to allow me to run sp3
I live to tace another week without buying a tire..lol

I know this is not your intention to get into all this, so im done...ill send you an email..

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by buhrracing:
DaD, no strictly dirt down here in Florida. Sorry if i implied not concerned about safety, i was referring to my thought process and why i choose to do the things i do...

Wayne,
The original post implied engine packages and other things...So that opened the door up for other conversations..:)

All the chatter is useful information that could be absorbed into decisions that are being made as tou can see there are multiple thought processes of racers and crew chiefs in the way tjey see the light of different topics..

I understand the motive to make all series an equal rule book and thats all good It doesnt matter if you allow Ti or not, it just makes people like me spend money elsewhere to see the car go fast, so if it is to make it affordable to not allow Ti, then your wrong. It will be spent elsewhere. We are racers at heart and want to as fast as we can.

Just like tires....by mandating tires only henders the choices but your still going to buy them. For instance you mandate rr tO SP2 only, at our tracks you will be biying a tire every race, by allowing options you save my sp2 to allow me to run sp3
I live to tace another week without buying a tire..lol

I know this is not your intention to get into all this, so im done...ill send you an email..

Buhr

The reason for the pavement question is most dirt racers race off of the blocks, Pavement racers race off of the scales. We take our basic set up off of the block with maybe 1/2 turn added to the right rear for a heavy track and adjust as we go. Placing weights all the way around the car is just not done up here on dirt. If you haven't already a guy named Steve Smith and Jimmy Sills got together and wrote a book and Jimmy did a video that is very informative and gives a lot of advice on Midget set up. Also a must read for Midget racers. even better than staying at the Holiday Inn but not quite as good as staying at the La Quinta Inns.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Ronnie we have covered the Ti issue with an addmen that will be in the rules for 2016-18

2-6-15 Section 2.3e NO TITANIUM ALLOWED PERIOD other then lower jackshaft in rearend...Update: Titanium bolts allowed EXCEPT when rotating such as but not limited to wheels, hubs,axles

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by RickyBobby:
National midgets should be allowed to compete (maybe with a spec RR tire or something). The national midgets make up 95% of the midget population already, so they would help car counts shoot through the roof. It's working great for Montpelier...

Rickey

At this point in time National Midgets do not compete well with one another. There is one engine out there built with tons of un-obtaneium. It is not readily available to the standard wealthy Midget racer and would probably cause several of these guys to spin off a few extra racers to the D II Division. I would love to see the old VW's, Sesco's, Gurdy's, and Pontiac's be allowed to race also but even they bring fear to the hearts of many racers. However when one of these guys come up with a $6000.00 motor repair I think they just might switch over and put their old motor in their living room. If 95% of the Midgets out there are National Midgets right now that is great>>>BUT I am hoping for a 10 fold increase in the Midget Population.:)

I am still hoping for a skinny Div II spec tire, I think that would really help out both in fairness and making for better future drivers.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

If were going to fantasize about ridiculous new rules (skinny spec tires), maybe we should consider swapping the right rear over to the left side and going backwards on the track too?

Re: Engine rules for D-2 2016-2018
 

Originally Posted by smokintires:
If were going to fantasize about stupid stuff (skinny spec tires), maybe we should consider swapping the right rear over to the left side and going backwards on the track too?

Smokin

In open wheel race cars generally when you are smoking your rear tires you are probably losing sight of the racers out in front.:);) It is all about being in control of your race car.

Honest Dad himself:6::6: