Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Was envisioned to be a stepping stone between the Silver Crowns and Indy Cars. Just wondered how many folks remember it.
David.

http://www.can-am-cars.com/productca...&idproduct=484

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

I did not remember that, David. Thanks for posting the link.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister:
Was envisioned to be a stepping stone between the Silver Crowns and Indy Cars. Just wondered how many folks remember it.
David.

http://www.can-am-cars.com/productca...&idproduct=484

I DO! GEORGE SNIDER DONE A LOT OF TESTING IT! IT WAS A V6!:checkered:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

:idea:

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
I did not remember that, David. Thanks for posting the link.

WHERE YOU BEEN?:idea:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Cheaper than a new gen Silver Crown !
:dologob:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

From the internet snooping I've been doing, the cars/series never got off the ground here in the states. However, there was an "exhibition" race held in Japan. Various drivers were invited to take part, including the Bettenhausen brothers, Stan Fox and others. And the price didn't seem too crazy. Under $70,000 race ready. Maybe USAC should revisit this idea. That's cheaper than the NASCAR/New Generation Silver Crown car! :thumb
David.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

This car was designed by Eagle and Lightning designer, Roman Slobodynskyj and built by Edmunds AutoResearch shop. It was tested quite a bit by George Snider.

I believe all of the cars stayed in Japan after the exhibition.

Frankly, this car was a much better car and better idea than what the new super silver crown car turned into.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
:idea:
WHERE YOU BEEN?:idea:

Not in Japan, the only place they ever hit a race track. You are getting to be a real sad joke, Duke. You can't reply to anything without running your mouth and trying to put somebody down. A real classless act. Do us all a favor and take a flying f*&# into a rolling donut.:moon:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
Not in Japan, the only place they ever hit a race track. You are getting to be a real sad joke, Duke. You can't reply to anything without running your mouth and trying to put somebody down. A real classless act. Do us all a favor and take a flying f*&# into a rolling donut.:moon:

THANKS FOR YOUR KIND WORDS! YOU SAID I WAS CLUELESS? BUT I SEEN SNIDER TEST THE CAR AT THE IMS! RUN ABOUT 165 MPH! WHY DID YOU NOT KNOW THIS? YOU WORK THERE???????????? THERE ARE SOME THAT ENJOY MY INSIGHT ON REAL RACING! NOT YOU I GUESS!:applaud:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
Do us all a favor and take a flying f*&# into a rolling donut.:moon:

Huh?? That sounds like some kind of obscure olympic event that NBC has been unwilling to televise or something. :eek:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
THERE ARE SOME THAT ENJOY MY INSIGHT ON REAL RACING! NOT YOU I GUESS!:applaud:

OK, stand up and be counted - both of you!

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by illinisprintfan:
Huh?? That sounds like some kind of obscure olympic event that NBC has been unwilling to televise or something. :eek:

It is televised on the Spice Channel.:D

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
Not in Japan, the only place they ever hit a race track. You are getting to be a real sad joke, Duke. You can't reply to anything without running your mouth and trying to put somebody down. A real classless act. Do us all a favor and take a flying f*&# into a rolling donut.:moon:

Speaking of classless.

Too bad the rest of us can't get away with a response like this. There's a few people I'd like to tell to take a flying **** into a rolling donut.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

I get a kick out of SuperDuke.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

They tested the car at IRP as well.
:dologob:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

:kookoo

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
OK, stand up and be counted - both of you!

I HAVE SEEN MORE DONE MORE AND JUST TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN AUTO RACING! WHAT IS YOUR CLAIM TO FAME? A RIDING MECH.? PARTS WASHER STOOGE SHOE CLERK TELL US WHAT MADE YOU EXPERT IN AUTO RACING? :thumbsdown::moon:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
:kookoo

I HAVE SEEN MORE DONE MORE AND JUST TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN AUTO RACING! WHAT IS YOUR CLAIM TO FAME? A RIDING MECH.? PARTS WASHER STOOGE SHOE CLERK TELL US WHAT MADE YOU EXPERT IN AUTO RACING? :thumbsdown::moon:

This shouldn't have to be explained to an intelligent human being but I'll give it a whirl. Duke, it isn't about what you've done, what you know, etc. It is about simply giving a reply without trying to put the other person down. Basic common courtesy. In most of your replies you fail to do that and that is why I have replied to you the way I have. Also, you have been told more than once that using all caps and countless exclamation points amounts to shouting. But, you don't care about anyone else so you continue to do it. And, as far as knowledge of racing - I have worked for NASCAR, URC, RSCA, PRA, X2RA, and a few unsanctioned events. I have written for Illustrated Speedway News, Cavalcade of Auto Racing, Area Auto Racing News, and other publications. I have attended over 3000 events at 273 different race tracks since 1952, including some of your races, Duke. If you really would like to get in a p--ing match about knowledge of racing history bring it on. I would embarrass you. I've wasted enough time here. You are now on my ignore list.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by D.O.:
They tested the car at IRP as well.
:dologob:

Seen it run that night. I believe it was one of the thursday night thunder races. I remember thinking it didn't look to steady and Snyder didn't look to comfortable when he got out either.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

:moon:

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
This shouldn't have to be explained to an intelligent human being but I'll give it a whirl. Duke, it isn't about what you've done, what you know, etc. It is about simply giving a reply without trying to put the other person down. Basic common courtesy. In most of your replies you fail to do that and that is why I have replied to you the way I have. Also, you have been told more than once that using all caps and countless exclamation points amounts to shouting. But, you don't care about anyone else so you continue to do it. And, as far as knowledge of racing - I have worked for NASCAR, URC, RSCA, PRA, X2RA, and a few unsanctioned events. I have written for Illustrated Speedway News, Cavalcade of Auto Racing, Area Auto Racing News, and other publications. I have attended over 3000 events at 273 different race tracks since 1952, including some of your races, Duke. If you really would like to get in a p--ing match about knowledge of racing history bring it on. I would embarrass you. I've wasted enough time here. You are now on my ignore list.

I'VE FORGOT MORE THEN YOU SEEN! TELL ME QUICK HOW MANY SPRINT CAR RACES DID AJ FOYT WIN IN THE STATE OF OHIO?

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Dwight,

This is O/T, but the picture in your avatar.... Isn't that one of the old Joe Fiore sprinters from the URC days???

Oh, and never get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man!

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

:checkered:

Originally Posted by sprintcar64:
Seen it run that night. I believe it was one of the thursday night thunder races. I remember thinking it didn't look to steady and Snyder didn't look to comfortable when he got out either.

SNIDER SAID IT WAS A REAL HANDFULL TO DRIVE! :checkered:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Alright "kids" let's chill out. Dwight could probably rattle off some stats/memories that would baffle Duke. Duke could obviously tell some tales that Dwight could never have known, and on and on. Both of you guys are accomplished in the racing world. Let's leave it at that, unless you two want to challenge each other in a neutral arena, like Guitar Hero. Now that would be a sight to see.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Mike McCormick:
Speaking of classless.

Too bad the rest of us can't get away with a response like this. There's a few people I'd like to tell to take a flying **** into a rolling donut.

Go ahead Mike. Seems like it is open season right now.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Fisher79:
Alright "kids" let's chill out. Dwight could probably rattle off some stats/memories that would baffle Duke. Duke could obviously tell some tales that Dwight could never have known, and on and on. Both of you guys are accomplished in the racing world. Let's leave it at that, unless you two want to challenge each other in a neutral arena, like Guitar Hero. Now that would be a sight to see.

i would pay to watch that:rolling

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

To steal a line from a former poster, YOU ROCK:D

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Back on topic,:)

Does any body remember the American Racing Spirit (ARS), a "Spec" series that was to run on ovals in Indiana and the Midwest using cars that were built/designed by Mark Alderson (Alderson AC-03). I think the one time they scheduled a race (Winchester?), it was cancelled a few days in advance since nobody had bought the cars, or bought into the idea. Alderson had a few cars built that he was going to have some USAC drivers run, but there was not much more in the way of participation so the race was never run.
Seems he had the car on display at a race or two back when he was trying to get the series going (early 90's).

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
Do us all a favor and take a flying f*&# into a rolling donut.:moon:

I got a buck that says the Duke pull it off!!:applaud:

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by itsanonwingthing:
Back on topic,:)Does any body remember the American Racing Spirit (ARS), a "Spec" series that was to run on ovals in Indiana and the Midwest using cars that were built/designed by Mark Alderson (Alderson AC-03). I think the one time they scheduled a race (Winchester?), it was cancelled a few days in advance since nobody had bought the cars, or bought into the idea. Alderson had a few cars built that he was going to have some USAC drivers run, but there was not much more in the way of participation so the race was never run.
Seems he had the car on display at a race or two back when he was trying to get the series going (early 90's).

I believe those cars ended up in LasVegas, at some sort of CART "Walter Mitty" style "driving experience" scam designed to separate rich guys from their money.
I also recall someone dying in a crash out there, possibly, as a result of a heart attack. ??????

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
This shouldn't have to be explained to an intelligent human being but I'll give it a whirl. Duke, it isn't about what you've done, what you know, etc. It is about simply giving a reply without trying to put the other person down. Basic common courtesy. In most of your replies you fail to do that and that is why I have replied to you the way I have. Also, you have been told more than once that using all caps and countless exclamation points amounts to shouting. But, you don't care about anyone else so you continue to do it. And, as far as knowledge of racing - I have worked for NASCAR, URC, RSCA, PRA, X2RA, and a few unsanctioned events. I have written for Illustrated Speedway News, Cavalcade of Auto Racing, Area Auto Racing News, and other publications. I have attended over 3000 events at 273 different race tracks since 1952, including some of your races, Duke. If you really would like to get in a p--ing match about knowledge of racing history bring it on. I would embarrass you. I've wasted enough time here. You are now on my ignore list.

Dwight, I remember 30+ years ago when the announcer (Terry Baltes?) at Eldora would introduce Dennis "Duke" Cook as a "legend in his own mind". I think that statement is still true today. I also sort of recall that the late great Rich Vogler had somewhat of a "personality clash" with Duke back in the day.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by itsanonwingthing:
Back on topic,:)

Does any body remember the American Racing Spirit (ARS), a "Spec" series that was to run on ovals in Indiana and the Midwest using cars that were built/designed by Mark Alderson (Alderson AC-03). I think the one time they scheduled a race (Winchester?), it was cancelled a few days in advance since nobody had bought the cars, or bought into the idea. Alderson had a few cars built that he was going to have some USAC drivers run, but there was not much more in the way of participation so the race was never run.
Seems he had the car on display at a race or two back when he was trying to get the series going (early 90's).

Keith,
Those (American Spirit Cars) were the cars that did end up being used as Driver School Cars out in Vegas. They were also then part of a CART Driving Experience deal. Sorry for the double answer mac......
Also, If you look close in the movie blockbuster "Driven":rolling they used those Alderson cars for a lot of the driving scenes in that movie when they were not using actuall race footage with the Reynard Chassis. I was with Pac West Racing just prior to that being released.
Not sure if they are still being used in any kind of "driving experience" company today or not.

Ken Joyce

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Found some great info and some photos. Not a bad looking car. Too bad about the lack of interest. I wonder what tracks they were planning to run at?
David.

"USAC was trying to put together a one-make normally aspirated single seater series in the late 1980’s, as a next step for Sprint & Midget drivers and Teams. Roman Slobodynskyj designed 2 prototypes known as “Sabre Cars” to start, Alan Turner (former Team Manager of Graham Hill’s Embassy F1 Program) was in charge of building the prototypes at Jim Chapman Developments in Southern California. The cars had a normally aspirated V6 Buick, the chassis had an Aluminum Honeycomb lower with a composite upper which was made by Swift Race Cars. (Swift was in a unit in the same building as JCD at the time) The car had a Weismann gearbox, used Champ Car tires & wheels with 6 lug nuts on each wheel! Lug nuts were used since USAC sprint and midget teams all used lug nuts therefore they would not need expensive new wheel nut guns, etc. The car was tested and demonstrated at a few short Ovals as USAC was trying to see if there was enough interest in trying to do a series. The car even ran at Indy turning laps around 190mph, George Snider drove. However there was little interest at the time and the project stopped at 2 cars, until a gentleman named Tomonori Tsurumaki decided he wanted a race series to go with his new track Autopolis in southern Japan. Remember Autopolis sponsored the Benetton cars of the late 80’s. Tomonori Tsurumaki ordered 30 cars as complete runners, the cars were assembled at Roman’s shop in Anaheim, CA, which was called USA Race Cars, Swift again supplied the composite upper chassis and JCD assembled the chassis and made the suspension parts. 30 complete running cars were delivered for the Grand Opening of Autopolis in November 1990. The original plan was to have numerous CART drivers do a demonstration race, however because of the conflict at the time between CART and the FIA (remember Autopolis was trying to secure the Japanese Grand Prix and did not want to upset the FIA) numerous USAC regulars were selected instead, along with local Japanese drivers. Stan Fox, Johnny Rutherford, Dick Simon, Gary and Tony Betenhausen, were a few who came over and did a demonstration race. After the grand opening Mr. Tsurumaki hope was to have a series of races with the cars now know as FC-45 “Formula Crane” however just a few races were run in 1991, with just a hand full of cars. Not long after and having failed to secure the Japanese Grand Prix Autopolis filed for bankruptcy, all assets including the cars were sold at auction. The track is still used for numerous Japanese national events."

Stan Fox
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...stanfox5om.jpg

Aerial view
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...topview1gs.jpg

Starting lineup
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...dupreva3kj.jpg

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Dwight, I remember 30+ years ago when the announcer (Terry Baltes?) at Eldora would introduce Dennis "Duke" Cook as a "legend in his own mind". I think that statement is still true today. I also sort of recall that the late great Rich Vogler had somewhat of a "personality clash" with Duke back in the day.

Funny how you'd stoop to a personal attack in a post that was meant to align with Dwight's, which ironically said that you shouldn't put people down in posts.

The fact remains that Duke was a racer, and a good one, while it seems like the majority of those who bash him on here are lifetime fans and nothing more. I guess because it's so easy to drive the racecar from the stands, it must be easy to take potshots at an accomplished racer on a message board. I may not agree with every single thing Duke says or how he says it, but he has my full respect and attention because of his driving days.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

David,

This is some great info and photos. You are not only the Ovalmeister, you are also the Infomeister. I'm gettin' old and so is my memory. This brought back some stuff back to light for me that I had completely forgotten about. Nice work.

BTW, how dare you - starting a thread and then bringing back on topic!

You da man.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

This thread has taken more turns than Watkins Glen! :O:
David.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Fisher79:
Funny how you'd stoop to a personal attack in a post that was meant to align with Dwight's, which ironically said that you shouldn't put people down in posts.

The fact remains that Duke was a racer, and a good one, while it seems like the majority of those who bash him on here are lifetime fans and nothing more. I guess because it's so easy to drive the racecar from the stands, it must be easy to take potshots at an accomplished racer on a message board. I may not agree with every single thing Duke says or how he says it, but he has my full respect and attention because of his driving days.

Duke is the one that started this crap on this thread. So if he can't take it then he shouldn't dish it out. Where is the personal attack on my part? My views/opinions align with Dwight much more often than Duke.

If Duke was a good racer in your eyes, then good for you and your opinion. Other people may think differently.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Thanks for the pictures, those cars are actually pretty cool looking. They remind me of the F-1 cars of the era more than the indy cars of the same era.

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Good stuff....maybe USAC should revisit this....

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Duke is the one that started this crap on this thread. So if he can't take it then he shouldn't dish it out. Where is the personal attack on my part? My views/opinions align with Dwight much more often than Duke.

If Duke was a good racer in your eyes, then good for you and your opinion. Other people may think differently.

PLEASE TELL WHAT YOUR TAKING ABOUT? THE CRAP ON THIS THREAD?????????:kookoo

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister:
This thread has taken more turns than Watkins Glen! :O:
David.

YOUR RIGHT! IT NEVER FAILS!:headbang

Re: Remember the USAC Sabre Champ Car?
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Dwight, I remember 30+ years ago when the announcer (Terry Baltes?) at Eldora would introduce Dennis "Duke" Cook as a "legend in his own mind". I think that statement is still true today. I also sort of recall that the late great Rich Vogler had somewhat of a "personality clash" with Duke back in the day.

THE LATE GREAT GARY PATTERSON MY FRIEND GIVE ME THE LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND! SO WHAT DOES RICH VOGLER HAVE TO DO WITH THIS? I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU! AND YOUR GOOD FRIEND DWIGHT WHO SAID I WAS CLUELESS?:kookoo:moon: