Price of mini sprints
 

HI,
I just had to start a post in hopes that it may sometime change racers as well as chassis builders and parts distributors. I have been racer for 15 plus years and by far in that time my favorite car i ever raced was a mini sprint. But something happen in the last 5 or 6 years, the PRICE has Sky rocketed to the moon for these cars and as well as the parts that go on it.. Why you ask, I tell you the racers and the chassis builders .. People this was supposed to be affordable sport for people that wanted the feeling of running a sprint car but could not afford the a full size sprint.. Ok I am not calling anybody out or anything and i will not point a finger, but just using as a example there is a 2012 car on here that is a roller for 10,000. am I the only one that see something wrong with this.. HELLO... I CAN BUY A RACE READY 305 RACESAVER OR EVEN A RACE READY SPORT MOD FOR THIS.. There is a guy in southern ohio trying to bring the lighting mini sprints back by making it affordable and do able. This wat I am talking about lets help the little people so they can race to...

The parts, engines, and materials have sky rocketed, I can tell you for a fact not all of us are making much money selling parts.

If has wheels or heels it ain't cheap!!! Bottom line.. Im going to race the southern ohio series this year and I have to say I have a chunk of change in my setup.. but all about what u want.. sure u can find a car for 3500 but is it going to b up to date and compete with 2012 or above?? Probably not..

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

I disagree. Their are many $7000-10000 race ready GOOD cars for sale, and the TOP OF THE LINE 2 year old Hench with a fresh ZX12 for $14000 OBO. All ready to race. These are GOOD CARS. The $10000 roller is what it is. Their are many affordable cars for sale and they are still the only car I know of, that is bad fast, where you can replace an engine for under $3000. Cant do that in a 305 .

there are many cars out there that are race ready for under 8000 dollars but u have to keep in mind if u buy a car for around 5 to 6 grand how many races are on the motor, is it wore out, there is another 1500 to 2800 for a motor. Then look at condition of the car, does it need new bearings or axles and how is the body and wings. Bottom line is if u want a clean new looking car it's gonna cost more. I for one look at condition of car and motor. I would rather buy a roller then buy my own motor so I know what I have. Just my opinion

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

I run a 1994 Bailey w/a stock 06 gsxr 1000 (motor I paid 800.00 w/165lbs compression), no fancy gas shocks, but just did my homework in other areas and she still wins...

Personally I think the people who spend tall coin on motors and fancy cars are fools..Then again if I sh#ted cash id be that fool to..

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

sms50 i feel your pain on certain subjects, new parts are a little crazy especially when you pick it apart, for example speedway sells alot of parts so its an easy comparison, but a 2" 44" 4130 midget front axle is $239 yet a sprint car 2 1/2" 4130 50 or 52" sprint car axle is $189 both like a "speedway"or M&W brand....... now im no rocket scientist but wouldnt a 2 1/2" 4130 piece of tubing 6-8" longer be more money then a 2" piece only 44" long ???? i think its just the market theres not much of a market for these type cars so for companies to make and produce parts only to sell 1/3 of what they do for sprint car stuff they have to get a good chunk of change for it for it to be worth while..... also engines a becoming few and far between everyone want motors that are tried and true like 07-08 gsxr 1000's well their 7-8 year old engines that people have been abusing since day one of production there still out there but are few and far between if you find one you'll pay for it newer stuff alot of people dont want to mess with or just arent proven any good...... same thing happened with hot rodding used to be junkyard $300 350's real cheap pull them apart and build it now its LS swapped cars and integrated newer electronics have $3,000 in motor and harnesses etc but its just easier to get a hold of, junk yard ford 9" rear ends but try to find one now most yards around here dont keep anything older then 10-15 years old anymore..... you want a 9" its just easier to call currie or strange etc and get a fabricated 9" housing for $12-1800 rather then pull your hair out looking for one and when you do its $5-700 used .....

I use to run a mini sprint before moving on to a sprint car. I also see a big jump in the cost of cars. I just hope you guys don't follow the same path as the mod's and Late models have. I have never owned either one of these cars. But friends with several that do. The most common story is the sky rocketing price of them.
Just my 2 cents worth. Like I said I no longer have a dog in this fight.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

I believe what you are seeing is the raised cost of racing across the board, The younger generation has no idea of what it was like to find junk yard parts and how to build a part to make it work for a less amount of money. My family has been racing since 1946 and I have never seen so many pre-madona racers running around. is there any thing wrong with that .. no ... but if you want to play your going to have to pay anymore. Im guilty as charged too as I sink a fare amount of money into my sons racing indevors. Its just the next generation of racers.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

it costs a bucket load in Australia aswell since we don't really have proper mini sprint/lightning sprint chassis builders. everyone is importing henchcrafts and is almost like a 1 make series in some states. they buy them and import them for around 10-12g win the odd race and try to resell them for 18-20g. if you don't have a henchcraft you havnt got a chance at winning a winged race here. prize money well that wouldn't even cover the running costs for a meeting. the Australian title pays around $1500 to win. chain drive stuff is hard to come buy unless you use henchcraft parts. ive got a bailey but to hard to find off the shelf gear for it over here so ive just picked up a stealth midget chassis and converted it to chain drive and use all off the shelf bolt on parts.

U guys have have 1500 to win every weekend? That would be a crash fest around here lol

Stupid. This is not a post to talk about price of cars it's a post to bash mini sprint racing and abviously you are a 305 fan which I guarantee you to win at that level you better have 20-30000 in your car or your going to be running in the middle to back. If you can't afford to race don't race. There is no such thing as an affordable race car. It's all expensive in the grand sscheme of things... chassis builders don't make hardly anything and the reason costs go up is because of the cost of building those parts go up...employee costs , metal, aluminum all thathat has rose over the past 10 years. . As far as the southern ohio group. Good luck .. stupid gas rule will kill your club... 90% of cars run on alcohol. Bradley is doing a good job with midwest and that's the future of our sport !

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

no the austrailian title only happens once a season. most weekends its about $300 to win

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

the thing that's killing it in Australia is the guys with a big budget who will spend stupid amounts of money on their cars. a few guys have spent that much they could of bought a really good midget or sprintcar. some have tried stepping up to higher divisions and went from being front runners in lightning sprints to back runners in midgets or sprintcars and didn't like finishing down the back so went back to easy winning with lightning sprints.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

Im in the process of getting a upright I honestly think there cheaper then go karts if you dont put one on its top... I use to race go karts in early 2000's. The flatheads cost about as much as a 1000cc engine and you need to pack valves every 3 races max to get the right float out of the valves ($60) a pop... pay out $90 to win for 30 some karts in class... crazy!... Wka rules has killed that whole deal, then people went to clones to cut cost but now wka got there fingers in it now you cant get anything out of a go kart at least around here anymore.. Problem is you have to draw the line somewhere to get the little guy in I like the idea of gas not only does it cut down on up front cost but the headache of flushing the lines every race... yea helps with heat but i hear about people building up engines to get the edge at least in the AMSA and feel its going to turn out like the wka keep them stock and stop making it harder on the little guy. they need a national organization for rules so if people from Indiana or where ever they race other uprights can race in other states and don't have to change anything.. they need to tech more at tracks or a buy program which would i feel put a stop to it..
:deadhorse:

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

My old engine on gas wouldn't run below 230. My new engine on alky wont run above 180. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to figure out which one your gonna get more out of. Not bad for a few hundred bucks of injectors and a fuel management program. Nothing needs to be done inside the engine. You can have aftermarket bolt ons and stock internals and tech pretty easily (right DAD?)

If you don't have the time to clean out your fuel lines you shouldn't be racing cars. What other basic maintenance are you overlooking? These things are fast and dangerous so if you aren't fully dedicated to it then don't put it out there with people that are. That's putting your driver and the other drivers in a bad position.

Are costs out of control? Not compared to three years ago with open engine rules. Are they higher than they need to be? Probably. Are the cars still the best bang for the buck in dirt racing? Definitely.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

i understand what your saying i just been researching the guhl injection is over couple hundred and seeing all these different series popping up with different rules its hard to be flexible. I think it would be nice if everyone was on the same page to keep the cost down.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

I'm sure there will be some debate on this subject for a good while but a couple of points to make here .
Racing is Dangerous!!!!!!
Racing is Expensive !!!!!!
Not to be mean .....But if you don't have enough to do it in a safe manner ,Get Out , I see to many out there running junk and crying about how much it cost.
Saftey gear is a big one for us , I see guy's with holes in gloves and uniforms , old helmets with large chips out of them .
That's bad ......Buy the best you can afford , but you still need to upgrade from time to time .
As far as Gasoline vs Methanol....no brainer ....yes it cost , but it's the best option ...
This isn't little league .......It's racing and if it was cheap everyone would be doing it ......now suck it up and go get that second mortgage !!!!!!
:5:

Well said

Im not about cutting corners on thing specially on safety.. the thing that im talking about is the flexablity of the sport it drives cost when u have to have 2 motors switching back and fourth if one series/track runs alcohol and another only runs gas and one lets u do head work and the other has to be all stock. For example at waynesfield u can build engines up which u will have to probably to be competitive since its a pretty big track but then if I want to run southern ohio lightning ill have to get another engine to race with them and switch to gas so now im maintaining 2 engines switching computers flushing system see what I mean? Like wka u bought a flathead have it sent out have over 1000 in it when ur done if they just had a tag program switch to alcohol it would be so much cheaper for people. Same with minis if they had a tag deal or buy program and alcohol/gas whatever they came up with everyone be on same page then and wont have to have all these rules and can run anywhere.. wka was nice for that, engines just were so much for what they pay out. Killed it

May I ask what you race, are you a car owner, driver... Or maybe a track owner?
Noticed you are new to IOW..

Looking into getting an upright.. im not hear to start something.. just what I notice and my thoughts.. what u can save can go to new gear or tires instead of motors

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

Since were on a rant about the cost of minis and the sol group and waynesfield keep coming up im surprised your not complaining about the fact that they went to a american racer rr at jackson but everywhere else runs hoosier.. So if you like the idea of cheap heres a food for thought... The sol series is running sat nights also at brushcreek.. So you can run against the same cars that run on fri night mayb a few more for the guys that cant get off fri to race. Yes to run waynesfield you most definately will need that big motor and alot more to run up front. But as i see it if your coming from a kart chances of you beating those guys are going to be slim.. Idk how many races youve watched or been to but alot goes into these things other then which tire prep to use.. Not slamming karts or anyone that comes from them but ive drove them and its def not a mini sprint.. So basically my point of this post was if you wanna race cheapest way possible stay down south and run fri jackson and sat at brushcreek.. Ive taken some good amount of time off and just getting back into it and as of now these are my intentions only because my car is on gas... However next year i may look into different avenues... I also probably wont run every race due to working for a arca team.. But needless to say sol series if fits you better i guarantee as a beginner youll have a good time... Thats what its about right!!!! :22:

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Not only southern Ohio is running gas n stock. Michigan has there gas n stock motors and running on premier dirt tracks. Our car counts are on the rise this season also. Merritt speedway and Cherry speedway has full schedules and the we have a couple races at Crystal speedway. I have been down that go kart trail, chased the pro kart tour for 3 years $$$$ . It really doesn't matter what your going to race the facts are if your not winning and you want to win your going to be pulling out the check book. Pick your poison and lets go racing!!! IMO

Wonder why no one talks about how much safer alcohol is or how much cooler alcohol burns... go talk to any engine builder out there especially the drag car builders who produce massive horsepower... there going to tell u that gas makes wayyyy more power! And they are rite! I proved it and other guys have proven it ... problem is its not as safe and you can't get the motors to run cool enough . So if this is a thread of cost I'll bet the gas guys over a few years will spend just as much money replacing motors than they would with alcohol conversion. Also there are many alcohol conversions out there... expensive and economy... bang for your buck call Bradley racing and he can fix you up on alcohol for very little cost !

Okay this is my problem and many others in northwest ohio.. I live about 30 mins from waynesfield but my dad lives in southern ohio he wants to get a legend car.It would be nice to take work off and go to bushcreek and jackson together for a weekend be a blast but now I have to buy a different motor.. thats what im saying there is no flex.. im stuck in amsa unless I want to spend alot of I feel unnecessary money and time to do both. I think thats what hurting this sport the most ur stuck at certain tracks and people complain about payout I think it would help bring big pay out shows bc they know they will get the car count bc everyone would be on the same rules. Plus if I buy a car racing at waynesfield is going to cost more bc of the motor vs one from north or south but then I have to spend money in the motor to be competitive and be stuck at one track..

Its has nothing to do with cost of maintenance or cost of safety to u or others that comes with the sport.I have no.problem with that it just the unnecessary cost of motor I feel keep it stock cam, head, bore and stroke and have a good tech program with alcohol conversions thats up to the drivers I feel theres probably not enough displacment to make much gain

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

And you would be correct. Stock internals and a few hundred dollars (which are reusable if you go through multiple motors) in an aftermarket alky system is far and away the best long term plan for these engines. Also much safer.

My big concern is the exclusivity of certain combinations. Why some series ban mechanical injection, alcohol, or certain compounds of tires blows my mind. Why wouldn't you want anybody and everybody to be able to come race at your track or with your group? Rules need to be set in order to keep competition fair, but "my way vs your way" isn't strengthening any series its killing it.

I live in Cincinnati with a decently competitive car wherever I go. However if I travel 2 hours to the east I have to fall under one set up rules, 2 hours to the north another, and 2 hours west a third. If I'm coming from the kart ranks- I see this class of car that appears to be affordable (by racing terms),\ and are bad ass, but limits where and how often I can race based on a $500 difference (5% of my total investment in a $10,000) in fuel delivery systems; I would consider something with more flexibility. What's nice about UMP mods (even though I think they are atrocious to watch) is they race everywhere under the same rules. You can run Moler Friday, Florence/Lawrenceburg Saturday and actually get to use your investment. In this class you have to put all of your nuts in one basket, conform to one group's schedule, and hope that you don't get rained out in order to have 1 race to go to that weekend. Maybe that's why most of the Cincinnatians are out of this class. It's nuts.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

I thought the "National" rules were supposed to fix all this (tongue planted firmly in cheek).
I also thought this was the Classifieds (even more firmly in cheek)...

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

both good points Jim. But the national rules aren't national if they aren't accepted by the groups. They're still in the early stages. Don't know why this is in the classifieds, I just address where needed.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

I forgot it was in the Classifieds until I tried to "Like" your comment Jim. And I understand that trying to get so many diverse groups to agree on a common rules package is a lot like herding cats...

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

Well,Well,Well........Lets see if I can think this out , if I want to race all these tracks both days on the weekend every weekend.
I need a couple of motors , one for methanol, one for gas , then one thats been massaged by the master of HP, but I cant afford all that .
What do I do ?????????
Well now ...the logical thing would be to pick the track closest to me , buy or build a car that would be legal there and GO RACE THERE AND LEARN......
You don't need all the fancy stuff at first ,invest in a good safe car and saftey equipment ....AND LEARN.....
You will find out what you need to be competitive as you go and you will find out what you like ...
I think it's pretty simple ....Don't you??????

I understand what ur saying visitor but what im trying to say is tracks are wanting to get bigger counts with no flex hard to get people interested to get more people in it

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

Not to sound mean ......but thats the tracks problem,you need to find the place you feel comfortable running , if it's at one of the tracks that allow motor work and you want to spend that kind of money then go for it .
If it's at one of them that are using the the stock motor rule package I think you would be on a more even playing field.
Like I said before ...get your feet wet first and then see how far you want to go.
We don't run in your area, We run in the central P.A. area with a small traveling series that visits maybe a half a dozen different tracks .
We use our own rules package , stock motors , spec tire ,weight rules......and it works , the tracks don't normally tell us what to do as far as our general program.
Relax ...it will come to you ......

Without stock motor rules you might as well buy a full size sprinter... Or midget.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

^^^^ Yup.

Re: Price of mini sprints
 

-

Even without stock rules sprints and midgets are way more expensive ... no matter how u slice itt..done both and it's just the way it is... ya you can run a sprinter cheap and a midget but you won't compete whatsoever.... sorry just reality of racing

May not be able to buy a top running sprint car with what u got in a top mini but it would just seem more pratical to have a big car.. I know I'll buy a sprint car b4 I get 20-25k in a mini.. just me tho.. but I agree all racing is crazy expensive..

Mini sprints are one of the best bang for the buck series out there .Bottom line .... You don't have to spend a boatload of money to compete and win . Everyone thinks sprints are just as cheap ??? It don't matter if it's 305 or 410, kart , r/c car , or the new thing .r-factor . There is always going to b people /teams that spend tons of money for what they have. It happens on every scale .

As Ole DAD would say . 9 out 10 times its "glittering b.s. "