Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint division..
 

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

That is just the cost of the engine. That doesn't include converting over to being sprint car ready. What is that cost?

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

this needs a LIKE button !

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by 69racer:
That is just the cost of the engine. That doesn't include converting over to being sprint car ready. What is that cost?

Don't know the exact cost but when asked about this it was said they would like it to be cheaper then the new Racesaver 305 Wing class at Bloomington and it's the same class as the one racing at Ohsweken Speedway in Ontario, Canada. They didn't say if the new division would be Wing or Non-Wing.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

From what I've seen and heard, Ohsweken IS a crate motor, and they are way more $$$ than that to be race ready.
That been said, I was quite impressed with just how well the show 'looked'. It would have been spectacular if they had gone non-wing.

My two biggest expenses its diesel fuel for the truck and tires for the car. Too many people are convinced that engines and shocks are what's wrong with racing. The price of everything has went up and the pay out hasn't changed. The answer is not cheap under horse powered engines racing for $500 to win and $100 to start. I spent the same amount to race every night running my 360 as it did my 410.

Donny Schatz and Ron Shaver has been pushing this for years and have yet to gain traction with it. If I remember correctly, he ran it in an All Star race and was competitive with it. How much do the fans want to hear a screaming 410 or a crate engine? There are so many different ways you can go with this argument. Hell, get rid of the single tire provider rule and see what happens to tire prices. Just have a durameter hardness rule. Bet the tracks and some sanctioning bodies would screen bloody murder. Would love to see American Racer back on sprint cars. Back in the day we had three choices and that was great. Sorry, went a bit off topic.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

The WOW series in Oklahoma has been gaining traction. Their rules are pretty simple. No wings. 360 ci max, 2 barrel carb (not a 15-2000 injection), spec IMCA heads, no cockipit adjustable stuff, Guys are winning with supposedly 7-8000 under the hood.

Would be cool if they went with the same rules as Wilmot Raceway. Might be able to draw cars from each other .

Originally Posted by sprintracer82:
My two biggest expenses its diesel fuel for the truck and tires for the car. Too many people are convinced that engines and shocks are what's wrong with racing. The price of everything has went up and the pay out hasn't changed. The answer is not cheap under horse powered engines racing for $500 to win and $100 to start. I spent the same amount to race every night running my 360 as it did my 410.

Exactly!!!! We run a 360 and engine is one of our lower costs. We can spend $400 to $500 in tires a race.

We have a winged 305 class starting in our area as a "cost savings" class and a couple drivers I talked with are not running the races that are an hour away due to travel costs, so the $7,000 engine didnt make much difference.

Motors are really only an issue at the national level.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

I hear so this is 3rd party that the 6R racing group are behind this concept. Also Larry Kemp that has alot of knowledge on Create motors is behind this also along with Rich Farmer and Joe Gearte. Hear are my thought on this looking forward.I am glad to see they are giving it some time to make sure it is the best it can be before saying" hey we got this idea and we are going to start this in 2 months" Also i think open sprint racing is still good but 15 years ago you had 40 cars show for a weekly show now maybe 24-25. I hope that maybe instead of someone quiting they just step down and keep enjoying there hobby. I believe they are shooting for a $5000-$5500 bolt in you roller car and go race. I would hope to control cost have No Carbon, No Ti, Max shock price rule of $200 per shock and if a manufacture want or can make it adjustablefor that it is that companies advantage. No Cockpit adjustments ( including wing if the would ever chose to run them) stay on 3/8 mile tracks or smaller. and maybe a $6000 engine claim. Just some thoughts.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

We got all excited about the possibility of a spec 305 sprint car series in the neighborhood. Then we visit AJ and look at a Sprint car and I say to myself>>>Boy that thing is sure big>>>will it fit into our shop and would we have room to work on it>>>we don't know of 2 or 3 reliable people that could or would help move that thing around the pits and race track>>>how much fuel did you say.

Come to think of it this little midget is just right>>>it might be a bit cramped for Doug but we can make it to the track without help>>>push it around with just one of us>>> and drive it right to the starting shoot and then drive it right out on the race track and on a quarter mile track we are just as fast and exciting.

We are "Living the life of Riley" and sometimes don't realize it.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Originally Posted by racerX:
I hear so this is 3rd party that the 6R racing group are behind this concept. Also Larry Kemp that has alot of knowledge on Create motors is behind this also along with Rich Farmer and Joe Gearte. Hear are my thought on this looking forward.I am glad to see they are giving it some time to make sure it is the best it can be before saying" hey we got this idea and we are going to start this in 2 months" Also i think open sprint racing is still good but 15 years ago you had 40 cars show for a weekly show now maybe 24-25. I hope that maybe instead of someone quiting they just step down and keep enjoying there hobby. I believe they are shooting for a $5000-$5500 bolt in you roller car and go race. I would hope to control cost have No Carbon, No Ti, Max shock price rule of $200 per shock and if a manufacture want or can make it adjustablefor that it is that companies advantage. No Cockpit adjustments ( including wing if the would ever chose to run them) stay on 3/8 mile tracks or smaller. and maybe a $6000 engine claim. Just some thoughts.

This is kind if what I was trying to say in the original post but wasn't exactly sure how to word it do I just posted what they had said about the engine. Also your correct it was said at the banquet that Gaerte and Mr.Kemp are helping a lot behind this.

Like I said hope they can get the right and it works out.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Jim you are correct on that. I ran in the WOW series last year and going to run this year as well. I built my motor in my buddies garage. Motor is almost stock. We run the EQ Imca heads, 5.7 rods, flattop pistons, stock weight crank, Hyd cam vacuum rule of a min of 12lbs at 1200 rpm's. These motors will not turn anything over 7500 and if you do turn in more than that your are probably going to call up your engine guy. We have a guy in the series ran the same motor for about three years, last year was the third year, and he finished third in points. I would not be surprised to see 25 to 30 cars at some point this year. I am on a very limited budget but I was able to make the majority of the races last year due to the way the series is set up. If you would like to check out our webpage it is http://www.winglessoklahomawarriors.com/. Most of us are either older guys that have raced forever and still want to race but do not want to spend the money for ASCS or guys like me that are out there for fun and do not have any plans going to ASCS.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

I just called behlings in Wisconsin. they provide all parts to put a crate 604 into a sprint car. I was told the whole package with a new 604 was about 7000 dollars. not bad. if all cars have the same hp racing will still be good. behlings phone is 1 262 783 7474.i know at grundy speedway in morris ill the national midget class is shrinking but the sportsman midget class started years ago by Laverne spencer and others is growing. cg

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Whatever you implement, make sure it's easy to tech. Flat top pistons, cam timing, etc. The 602 crate modifieds in NY state are a mess because guys are screwing with them and not enough tech is being done.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

I've never really got the whole "BUDGET CLASS" concept.
Modifieds were a budget class, Now you got three different classes of mods
ASCS, NRA etc were all 360 budget class. Now a motor will cost as much as 410s.


You can have a Econo class alone by having a low purse. 4-600 to win and your not going to have USAC guys or even most track champions showing up knowing they coudn't even break even by winning.

Leave the budget up to the racer. If they buy a sprint an can only put a 5g motor in it and run a RR that would last ten races. Thats where they'll run Against others in the same boat. If so happens they stumble into some sponsorships or $$$ They can buy the 15-50g motor and go race with USAC if they want.

Pretty much every racer I know that doesn't have a lot of sponsorship or $$ behind them, Runs what they can afford and where and how often that they can afford to do it.

Not saying something that could draw and create new racers is bad if in fact what this does is that.
But making another class isn't any kind of a solution IMHO. Run NW Racesaver.. That way you can draw in and have a big race or two, while the majority of the season is your regulars and beginners.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Charles we run for 400 to win 100 to make the A. Here in in Oklahoma we are the only non wing series. The other sprints in the state are all winged cars. The two other series in the state are OCRS and ASCS and those motors are your 15 to 50 grand motors. That is why our series is growing. Those guys that can build a cheaper motor and want to race a car still can. They do not have to watch from the stands.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

This would be like supercross there is a 450 class which would be the 410 sprints, and there is a 250 lites class which would be the 602 motor sprint. You hardly ever see a 450 rider step down to a Lites bike. But you do see a Lites rider step up to the 450 class. And I believe the concept would be the same with the sprint class. The key is TECH!!!

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

behlings called me back today. the price of a 604 and all parts to install in a car is closer to 8400 dollars.still not bad for a new motor and all parts. C.G.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

I get very nervous when someone tells me I will save money by buying something new, and that same person is the one who will sell it to me.

The last person that should be consulted when considering new engine rules is an engine builder.

Who is speaking to the racers?

How is that ASCS spec head class going, cost-wise, right about now? I thought that was going to save sprint car racing?

How about 305 motors? I see ads for special block lightening, DMI has a lightweight 305 class rear end. Where is that going to end?

305, 355, 360, 410, yada, yada, yada. The right rear wheels all cost the same. The drive lines and frames, front ends, etc. all cost the same.

Give me a weight rule, as much for safety as cost, give me a spec right rear that will last more than one night (the late model guys have them), no wings (tip-over? that will be $600), no cockpit shocks, pay enough to get me back the next week, but not so much so the rich guys stay out and I'll be there. I believe Paragon has more cars on a weekly basis, year in and year out, than just about anyone. I'd be there every week if it wasn't so far.

If Plymouth wants to blaze new ground, good for them, I wish them nothing but the best. Keep 410 non-wing and we'll be there every week. But, when I start racing again, if they want a spec class (that I can't race anywhere else) I will drive right pass them on my way to Gas City or Kokomo.

I have/run a a4mp motor. Sometimes saving money gets really expensive.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bj-b0COKcp4

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

There has been alot of intrest in the Sprint Lites. This class is not for everyone. 410,360,305 engines will always be there. But how many people have said they want to run a sprint car but what stop them is the cost of the motor and the time to take care of it. You can find used roller cars out there for $5000 and add a $7925 New motor with all new parts to just bolt it in. You have less than $15k in a Sprint to race that the motor should last 2-3 years. For More Information Call Larry Kemp 317-416-6854 or Joe Gearte 574-223-3016. Again the key to this is TECH!!! I always liked Outlaw Late Models but the cost got out of hand and now look they are lucky to have 8-12 cars weekly at a track. If you are passionate about sprint racing, you will support Larry Kemp on this. I even heard Doug Wolfgang say that he wishes this would happen in Souix Falls so his son Robbie Wolfgang could start back racing again cause the cost of the motor has forced his son to park his car.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by CTtoPA:
Whatever you implement, make sure it's easy to tech. Flat top pistons, cam timing, etc. The 602 crate modifieds in NY state are a mess because guys are screwing with them and not enough tech is being done.

so, of course, thats the motor palmer and valsing are gonna use in their non wing crate class.......

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by racerX:
There has been alot of intrest in the Sprint Lites. This class is not for everyone. 410,360,305 engines will always be there. But how many people have said they want to run a sprint car but what stop them is the cost of the motor and the time to take care of it. You can find used roller cars out there for $5000 and add a $7925 New motor with all new parts to just bolt it in. You have less than $15k in a Sprint to race that the motor should last 2-3 years. For More Information Call Larry Kemp 317-416-6854 or Joe Gearte 574-223-3016. Again the key to this is TECH!!! I always liked Outlaw Late Models but the cost got out of hand and now look they are lucky to have 8-12 cars weekly at a track. If you are passionate about sprint racing, you will support Larry Kemp on this. I even heard Doug Wolfgang say that he wishes this would happen in Souix Falls so his son Robbie Wolfgang could start back racing again cause the cost of the motor has forced his son to park his car.

The cost of WINNING has forced him to park his car. :42::

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by racerX:
But how many people have said they want to run a sprint car but what stop them is the cost of the motor and the time to take care of it. You can find used roller cars out there for $5000 and add a $7925 New motor with all new parts to just bolt it in. You have less than $15k in a

No idea who this guy is selling this 410, but why not spend another $600 to buy a block and heads that can be fixed along with being raced anywhere for a better purse.
https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=82969
Affordable 410's are out there, but it takes work.

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by racerX:
There has been alot of intrest in the Sprint Lites. This class is not for everyone. 410,360,305 engines will always be there. But how many people have said they want to run a sprint car but what stop them is the cost of the motor and the time to take care of it. You can find used roller cars out there for $5000 and add a $7925 New motor with all new parts to just bolt it in. You have less than $15k in a Sprint to race that the motor should last 2-3 years. For More Information Call Larry Kemp 317-416-6854 or Joe Gearte 574-223-3016. Again the key to this is TECH!!! I always liked Outlaw Late Models but the cost got out of hand and now look they are lucky to have 8-12 cars weekly at a track. If you are passionate about sprint racing, you will support Larry Kemp on this. I even heard Doug Wolfgang say that he wishes this would happen in Souix Falls so his son Robbie Wolfgang could start back racing again cause the cost of the motor has forced his son to park his car.

When might you guys have rules out for this new sprint class?:10:

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by racerX:
There has been alot of intrest in the Sprint Lites. This class is not for everyone. 410,360,305 engines will always be there. But how many people have said they want to run a sprint car but what stop them is the cost of the motor and the time to take care of it. You can find used roller cars out there for $5000 and add a $7925 New motor with all new parts to just bolt it in. You have less than $15k in a Sprint to race that the motor should last 2-3 years. For More Information Call Larry Kemp 317-416-6854 or Joe Gearte 574-223-3016. Again the key to this is TECH!!! I always liked Outlaw Late Models but the cost got out of hand and now look they are lucky to have 8-12 cars weekly at a track. If you are passionate about sprint racing, you will support Larry Kemp on this. I even heard Doug Wolfgang say that he wishes this would happen in Souix Falls so his son Robbie Wolfgang could start back racing again cause the cost of the motor has forced his son to park his car.

When might you guys have rules out for this new sprint class?:10:

Crate classes or spec engine classes just simply do not work. Guys will always cheat whatever grey areas they can. It's just how it is. I agree with some people here...start and winning payout is the only true governing factor. It costs the same for EVERYONE...and there can only be one winner. How many cars would actually show up to a $10,000 to win show but only the winner gets any money. Everyone else is left with a "thanks for coming". Seriously...

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Originally Posted by cmiracingvids:
Crate classes or spec engine classes just simply do not work. Guys will always cheat whatever grey areas they can. It's just how it is. I agree with some people here...start and winning payout is the only true governing factor. It costs the same for EVERYONE...and there can only be one winner. How many cars would actually show up to a $10,000 to win show but only the winner gets any money. Everyone else is left with a "thanks for coming". Seriously...

Thats interesting because a great racer that post on here sometimes told me once that he went to tracks based on what tenth paid. One because if they weren't good enough to run top ten. they should have just stayed home, and second, Because many tracks didn't pay any further than tenth.

So if a track put a whole 17,500 purse in the top ten and nothing else, Who then would show up?

Originally Posted by cmiracingvids:
Crate classes or spec engine classes just simply do not work. Guys will always cheat whatever grey areas they can. It's just how it is. I agree with some people here...start and winning payout is the only true governing factor. It costs the same for EVERYONE...and there can only be one winner. How many cars would actually show up to a $10,000 to win show but only the winner gets any money. Everyone else is left with a "thanks for coming". Seriously...

Really? Then explain Fastrak & Nesmith for late models! For those that are putting in their two cents why don't you wait and see how thinks work out for those trying to creat this class before you complain about it in some way shape or form. I give these folks credit for trying something different. We don't even know what the payout might be for this division either. If it's close to what their sprint payout is now for the 401 non-wing sprints then I would say its a good start. Nobody knows for sure how this us going to play out a few years down the road. Like I've said before; just be happy you have a track to go watch races at and stop being critical of the track and let's see how this works out and hope they stumble apon something that others that have tried to start a spec class haven't and this works out. The only thing I will say is if this is going to work it will likely be based on how good they TECH each and every car that is in that division.

Crate, stock, whatever you want to call them, to the uneducated, sounds great, I, as well as others, can go and buy one, then go and race with others who have the same engine, and win, or at least be competitive with the field? To that, I say meadow muffins! The only time I ever saw this work, was a friend of mine in central Illinois, owned a go-kart "ranch", best way I can explain it, some of you may know about it, but if you desired to race a go-kart, he could make it happen! If you just wanted to try it, you could go rent the whole thing, kart, suit, helmet, the package, just like bowling, or any other combination, plus all of the other 50 classes, but, the way he made it work was, he owned ALL the engines, you paid your money, and you got a brass tag, with a number on it, which you gave to one of his other kids, who went to the shelf, put the tag on a hook, pulled the engine, and gave it to you, ready to install, add fuel, which you got at his pump around, and you went racing. They maintained all the engines, which weren't numbered, so your chances of getting the same engine again were slim, he had a name for the class, and it became very popular, that's the only way this can work ! Bob

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Glen Niebel was one of the smartest guys I ever run across he was also one of the nicest guys to talk to. He also helped put Tony Stewart get in the record books.

He did this with a little known engine he found laying around in a junk yard, and combined that with a little home grown ingenuity and skill to take advantage of a rule in the USAC sprint car rule book. I think the car and Tony where about the same age but they somehow worked very well as a team.

The engine Glen used was a little V6 odd fire Chevy. The kind they used in Pick Up tucks back then.

Junk yards are now full of fresh even fire V6 motors with dual overhead cams and electronic fuel injection. These motors are light weight investment cast aluminum blocks with a bottom end designed to run 200,000 miles under very harsh and low maintenance conditions. You know like an oil change every year or two.

There is very little speed equipment out their for these engines and they really don't need much to make them fire breathing dragons. Look at the specs on the new Chevy Camaro V6 motors, starting at 325+HP in a stock on the street daily driver.

If it is a 50 year old v8 design motor with a million dollars worth of cheap speed parts available >>>don't race it. If you want a stock or spec class motor look elsewhere for your engines.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

Re: Possibly looking at starting a spec engine Sprint divisi
 

From personal experience with Larry Kemp all I can say is "RUN FAST RUN FAR"
Larry is for Larry that's all I can say.

Originally Posted by baileyracing7:
From personal experience with Larry Kemp all I can say is "RUN FAST RUN FAR"
Larry is for Larry that's all I can say.

I think if we had personal dealings I would remember you, and I don't.
Maybe if you actually listed your name I might. I have been in the business for more than 30 years and have developed many contacts and never have been openly accused of any misdeeds that would warrant such an attack on my character.
I will be providing an update on the entry level Sprint program in the near future.
Larry