Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

accord speedway in NY and new egypt in NJ are doing something similar but with the 602 crate motor i believe

Here one of the cars.

One more

Anybody have any opinions on this?

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

I think this will be a good deal if it gets rolling with car count. I know that they have been offered at least one night at Angell Park this summer as well. With the abundance of 410 and 360 winged cars in Wisconsin, I believe this will help more cars go non winged racing. The initial motor cost is minimal and I have heard you can run these sealed motors for multiple years with no rebuilds. As well as help USAC car counts up in this area when they come around. We have debated building a car for this series. I hope it takes off!

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

As long as it stays wingless they should open it up to either crate motor or any steel block wet sump flat tappet cam 305 motor. Most of the 305 class rules in this country match up pretty well against each other wingless, and the 604 crate motors match up fairly closely to them as well....as long as it stays wingless.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Honestly, what I would like to see is an open non winged series at Angell Park. The winged series up here run very very few Sunday shows. And as we know from the Indiana bull rings, horsepower is WAY less important without the wing. I dont remember where I saw this, but I saw an open non winged club somewhere in the country this past year that had 305, 360 and 410 cars all win features. Honestly I think open non winged sprint cars is one of the most sensible racing forms in all the world. 360 and 410 cars are already plentiful in Wisconsin, and I know a good paying purse for non winged shows would draw a lot of those guys as well

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Stealth....you are talking about the WAR series here in Missouri.... our tracks go dryslick 99% of the time and any engine that pulls from 3-7000 RPM is competitive wingless in that series....but even then the guys with 305s have to be absolutely perfect through 50 corner entries, middles and exits to run up front....tires and shocks have gotten pretty good at letting you use more horsepower when it slicks off than you used to be able to use.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Regardless, I still think a $1500-2000 to win ($300-400 to start) open non winged series at Angell Park on Sunday nights would draw 20+ cars every night they ran.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Neat idea i guess, but anywhere but Wilmot. I just can't seem to like that place.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

i think that payout would get 20 plus midget at angell park as well. just saying.

Open nonwing sprints at Angell Park. I'd move for that!
Nick Landon

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Too bad it costs 3x as much to freshen a midget motor than it does a decent (non big named) 410.

Growing up in the area I absolutely LOVE midget racing. Its what I grew up watching every Sunday night at APS. But until the sanctioning body (BMARA) does something to get more cars out of the garage, midget racing will continue to die in the area. And unfortunately it may already have reached the point of no return in Wisconsin. Non winged sprints are the next best option.

I guess i just dont understand all this non wing restricted motor stuff. You can buy a good used all aluminum 12 degree 410 for $8-12,000 and be more than competative on most smaller (less than 1/2 mile tracks). I like the idea of the 305's etc but for the same $ you can build a non wing 410 and increase car count signifigantly for existing classes and tracks instead of fragmenting the sport more with more classes.

How many cars are actually built for this class? If they would have just gone back to having weekly sprint car races id bet they would get 20-25 cars on average.

Could have even made the rule nothing more than a 12 head motor to even the playing field a little better and bring some of the cars in the area out.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

is this thread about the car count (or lack of) at sun prarie, or the new sprint class at Wilmot?

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Read the title. :)

So, a used 410 is 8-10 thousand and it is probably ready for a freshen at that price so add at least $3000 brings total to $13000 and it will need to be freshened every year. Compared to a brand new crate for $5500 plus $2000 for all new bolt ons. This engine will last 60 nights before it needs to be freshened if you take care of it.
Just the facts you decide what's better.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Will this increase the attendance at Wilmot? The number of us non wing fans in cheeseland doesn't compare to the wing fans. This is a question, not a slam against the whole idea.

Id go with the used 12 motor that is already fresh for the 8-10k and have something that is a little more widely used. Hopefully this class works but from what ive heard from more that dont see it working what kind of hot rod are you gonna build when this class doesnt take off with that motor nobody wants? I still know of only 1 car.

I know of 10 as of now! The 604 crate is the the most popular crate used with over 6200 engines sold to date.

New crate $5500. Sell after 3 seasons for $2500. That puts your running cost at $1000 per year.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Quoted from the Wilmot website regarding this new division: To be clear, this class is a “entry level” weekly sprint class that will run for a purse fitting that description, and contrary to any rumor will NOT pay more than the Modified division. We’re not trying to mislead anyone with the intention of this class. Additionally it is NOT meant to compete with, or take away from, the IRA, MSA, PDTR, or take away from Wilmot’s own winged 410′s. Also, it is not meant to eliminate any current Wilmot regular division. We have been approached to create such a division by several racers, from various racing backgrounds.

Latemodel55, not to put you on the spot, but do you know: What is the expected car count to start the season? What class are most of the drivers coming from? What is the payout for winning a modified feature? Also, looking at Outlaw Race Parts a complete 604 crate engine accessory package is $2600. So I would expect a new engine with all the bolt-ons will be at least $8,000?

Does that include all pumps, plumbing, filters, etc? If not double the price and you are at same cost point of a good used 12 degree motor

While ill admit non wing does put on a good show and cool to see once in awhile wilmot has always been a winged track

I thought the mini sprints were the beginner/budget sprint car class? Again instead of taking away from the minis that seemed to be getting good car counts again and doing something to bring sprint cars back out already in the area by having weekly shows why try a new division? How long are they going to run and pay a division with a weekly car count of 10-15?

Also i understand not wanting to hurt car counts with msa and ira but is wilmot more worried about keeping the track going and getting more people back or what ira and msa are doing? They are both traveling clubs not weekly race tracks. If anything bringing back winged sprint cars weekly might have helped car counts at some outlaw and ira shows on occasion. If guys wanted to travel or could they can run ira vs weekly wilmot. Maybe too much conflict in intrest between ira and wilmot?

One question that has to be asked. Who is behind the start up of this division? If you can answer that. That will answer why there are not weekly 410s at wilmot. Think about it.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

It's clearly stated in the quote given that they don't want a class that takes away from the IRA. From what is stated, Steve is taking the reigns on this class because of guys like you that no longer want to run minis but are not able/willing to run a traveling 410 class. Also, I would assume if the numbers were good enough they would eventually become a support class for the IRA.

I was hoping you could answer my previous questions as I was looking for serious answers as to how many are expected and what is the mods payout (to estimate the wingless payouts). I assumed you would have an idea since you are fielding a car in this new class.

Not only am i fielding a car in the class I also have a 410. To answer your questions I would expect to see at least 12 car the first year. I have no idea what the mods get paid.from what I here guys are coming from a lot of different classes. Parts can be bought cheaper else where if u shop around.Hope that answers all your questions.

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

thank you, good luck this season

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

Is this also an attempt at running a few races at Angell Park just to keep that track alive?

Re: Wilmot (WI) to debut Wingless Sportsman sprints in 2015.
 

I heard that there was one date guaranteed at Angell Park if the series wanted it. If it was a success, then more dates could be added. I have a feeling this series will only pay around $400-450 to win on any given night. But that is just a hunch. Time will tell

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