lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

waynesfield rules state that you have to use the ecu or black stock box the track I plan on running at Jackson wants to adopt these same rules I assume that means no power commanders is it illegal to have the box flashed or is this considered tampering with the box and makes it illegal.can you make your engine run right on alcohol with the stock box. I talked to Ryan Greth at Hyper racing and he told me that the engine will run on alcohol but not correctly but it would run does anybody no for sure getting the alcohol conversion is mighty expensive to find out that it wont run right he told me they might have to flash the box serveral times will tuning it on the dyno to get it right rules say 900 for gas and 925 for alcohol am I wrong to think that if you allow alcohol you are setting up for someone to stretch the rules and how would you enforce this rule if you allow alcohol

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

cb

This is what I came up with for rules at Waynesfield. http://waynesfieldmotorsportspark.co...inisprints.pdf

I did not see anything about ecm's. The motor is asked to do a much different job on the motorcycle that it came off of than it will have to do on a race car. motorcycles are designed for the mid range part throttle mode to be just a tad lean for better fuel mileage. On a race car this is not a good thing either on gasoline or methanol. The best way to correct this is with an add on like a power commander, You can look on their website for different program maps that might match your engine combination, or you can purchase one from a dealer. It is a good idea to use larger injectors for methanol. We use the Siemens 60 pound injector that can be bought for about $60.00 each and make our own fuel rail from blank rails that can also be found on the internet. Since most of your time will be spent wide open, a suitable map can be achieved by simply adjusting your fuel pres. If you are new to tuning an expert's help might be advisable. Really fast might be too lean for sustained operation.

Methanol is not going to turn your car into a giant killer. Your driving ability and set up expertise is going to have to do that for you. But it will make your car run cooler, and is much safer fuel for racing than gasoline.

I hope Jerry will chime in with is intent on the rule. I would take it to believe that no Motec after market racing type box ect. would be allowed. Without some very high price hardware and software that that is used to flash these boxes a tec can not tell if they have been altered or not. When one states Methanol conversion allowed I would think that some form of ECM changes would be allowed on factory ECM's whether it be add on type devices or internal flashing. Flashing the box makes the wires under the hood a little neater.



Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

I was also at the meeting. I e-mailed Waynesfield and they allow power commanders, which I have on my car. I hoped they would just run Waynesfield rules. That way people could run both tracks, now I have to choose one. I'll probably just go to Waynesfield and keep my car as it is now.

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

correct me if i am wrong the black box is the ecu right in the rules there is no mentioning of power commanders one way or the other if you are allowed to run them it should be stated in the rules deadhorse30 i am going to call chris after the holidays and see if he can get a hold of jerry who is running amsa up there I think and see if we can get a better clarification of this issue we need to all run the same rules so we can run what ever track you want

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Jerry is who replied to my e-mail. I agree the rules should be the same, but I got out voted.

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

What organizers need to take into consideration is>>>>If you can not or do not have the expertise to enforce a rule after a race in a short period of time it is a pretty useless rule. Maybe the rule should read "No aftermarket performance ECMs like MoTec will be allowed. And even after being this specific there is no more power to be found in any ECM. All we can hope for is a smooth delivery of power for the driver, and that is done by the tuner with the aid of the add on.

A few more RPM's maybe available with a flash or a box but the engine delivers the most power below the rev limit anyhow. That RPM is handy when we miss on the gear but next time the gear will be a tad higher for that track. If anyone thinks they will win races with more RPM's they are just behind the barn piddling.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

PS I can furnish you a guy to tec your box's at the race track it would require $500.00 per night and $300.00 per box to check them out.

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

deadhorse30 sorry to say but I may have been one of the persons who went against you I was just hoping for the rules to help keep the cost down but after doing some research I can see I may have been wrong chris wants to have another meeting in feb but that may be to long to wait would be getting very close to the season to change any rules like I said earilier I will call chris after the holidays to see if we can get the issue cleared up like i SAID WE NEED TO KEEP THE RULES THE SAME SO WE CAN RUN AT OTHER TRACK AND DRAW OTHER CARS DOWN SOUTH

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

No hard feelings here, you where doing what you thought was right. I've talked to Chris and he mentioned having another vote. Let him know what you think, I'd like to be able to race Jackson again next year.

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

in any rule book it is always "that depends on your definition of is is". Jerry has a pretty good set of rules. The important thing to stress is common sense. You are racing a motor that generates the most horsepower per CC of any motor in the world, racing or non racing in it's stock form right off the bike. You can not get any more out of it, all you can do it make it more drivable and cool it down if you can. Racing on gasoline you will probably need a large radiator and electric fan to keep it cool. Methanol will make it cool much better under racing condition and do away with the need for a fan.

If you got a guy that has the need to spend lots of money on his race car to be happy, by all means make him happy and allow him to do so. If he needs a 53 foot toter-home so what. A good driver and mechanic can still beat him any day of the week at almost any race track.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:
Merry Christmas Everybody:6:

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Sorry I have to ask a question that started this post. Are you talking about Jackson speedway in Michigan? They are a 600, micro sprint track, are they running upright, 1000cc engine/cars next year?

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

No. It's Jackson County in Ohio.

The age old injection argument. The stock box is untechable, unless everyone runs gas.

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
The age old injection argument. The stock box is untechable, unless everyone runs gas.

????

When we started it was carburetors and that darned new electronic injection was going to put us all out of business (Too Expensive).

Then it was that darned mechanical injection it was going to put us all out of business (Too Expensive).

Nothing worse then a bunch of old wives sitting around worrying about what is going to ruin the program. Then they make some silly rule that only cost the racer more money and does very little to address the perceived problem.

We are lucky to be blessed with motors so perfected at the factory that there is little we can do to make them faster than they already are.

Merry Christmas Andy:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

I understand I have been around these things since the beginning at 35 raceway when Keith built and ran the track I no a good set up with a good driver makes an incredible difference its just that I have run alcohol since the beginning and I am more comfortable with alcohol and yes I do understand alky will not turn my car into a rocket ship just prefer to run alky

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Would that be the old 35? Pre Tony?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

yes it would be

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Originally Posted by cbhhms17439:
yes it would be

cb

That wouldmake you pretty old. We raced at Tony's first 600cc upright race up their. Ohio has always been the hot bed of rip roaring snorten hard farten bad a$$ race motors. Best I can figure it must be something in yous guys water or something I don't know. But I do know that we outrun them guys with a stock F-2 Honda on gasoline. With them mechanical injectors they could pull us on the start but we just perfected the first gear start and they didn't give us any problem. About all one can hope for when hot roding one of these motors is an ill running wicked sounding time bomb. Like the old AA Quarter Midget used to be.

If you guys stuck to stock motors with stock parts and allowed stock bore intake systems of any kind, naturally aspirated of course, not worry about the ECM. You would be much happier.

I have devised a port that can be installed in the valve cover over the intake cam lobe that you can check valve lift with in 5 mins or less.

You can drill and tap the crankcase just over the #1 cylinder and install an 1/2" X 10AN straight fitting with a cap that can be removed to bore scope the rods and crankshaft.

Checking bore and stroke with gauge bore scope piston crown shape and you are ready to go.

Checking Methanol for additives is easy, not so for gasoline. The best way to get a little more power is with gasoline and oxygenated additives that you can not check for at the track. A little U2 or 4 at $20.00 a gallon will get you a noticeable kick in the butt.

This is why I think that cars running gasoline should be made to weigh heavier than methanol powered cars.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Merry Christmas!

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

you might say I am getting old I like to think instead of old as just getting wiser but my kids would probably agree with you the only time I start feeling old myself is when I am playing basketball with my son and grandson then I start feeling my age but I can still run a full feature ( A main ) without getting tired talking old how many sill call it a feature

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Should have gotten a MICRO!!!!

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Micro

Have you ever tried one of these 1000cc cars on for size?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

No I have never raced or owned one. When I went to micros 10 years ago, I looked at them and went the micro direction.

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

Micro

If you ever get the chance try one. You will be surprised. They are very fast and predictable. That longer wheelbase, the bigger tires and upright sitting position make a big difference on rough race tracks, and that 1000cc motor will give you a much bigger kick in the butt than a 600cc motor could when you hammer down.

Have you ever heard anyone compare a micro to a Full Midget. Micro's are neat little cars and definitely require one hell of a good driver to stay on top of things. BUT:::I can guarantee you would enjoy a ride in a 1000cc powered Midget.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: lightning sprint fuel injection questions
 

I have both I like 1000 uprights myself I dropped my micro down to the floor and turned it into and indoor car only would be at the rumble series right now if it wasn't so close to Christmas and family coming in from out of town first one I've missed in 5 yrs back when I started they only ran 250's in Ohio 600 micros wasn't in Ohio as a matter of fact the only place they run in Ohio now is Deerfield and they are only in there 2nd yr and there car count is pretty low less than 10 cars to me one ride in an upright and you would hooked