Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

February 7th will be the date for the return of Lightning Sprints with Kenyon Midgets, Focus Midgets and Echo Techs also competing on the Indoor dirt oval. These cars will all run together in this show as a sportsman midget class. If you have other cars that I have not listed and wish to race with us please send me a message so I can check on allowing you to run. We are trying to keep this simple and allow any sportsman midget race with the lightning sprints.

Unlike last time the Karts will not be running. The 600 Micro Midgets and the Jr Sprints will also be racing in separate divisions for this event. It will also be a late afternoon practice with racing starting in the early evening. The exact times have not been determined.

Snow date will be on the 21st of February.
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The rules should be the same for the lightning sprints as last time. Trying to get some rules for the other cars that we have added but we are trying to keep things simple.


Additional information along with the flyers will be posted on here and on various Facebook pages shortly. I am also waiting on the purse structure and format for this race so once this is available I will also post this information.

Feel free to send me a PM or post on here if you have any questions.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Jay

These guys have got it covered http://imraracing.com/rules/4580417183. Their Engine rules should suffice except for 1200cc cars. A bit too detailed for me but they invested a lot of time.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

They (IMRA) allowed 1200's last year, it's a little unclear why you would want to restrict a lower class of motor when they're up against 2.4 liter automotive engines...
(Also not a fan of disallowing a gutted transmission when running against direct drives either but I am a tad biased :D)

We'll be there w/ a different driver

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Jim

We all are biased a little bit but most people won't admit to it.

The gutted transmission was an old time speed secret invented by a bunch of old wives. For those of us that cant count past 2 when counting gutting them was a good idea.;) When the idea first started some of the guys didn't plug them holes in the gear shafts and we lost a few motors.

Automotive engines are one step up from lawn mower motors>>>our engines are one step down from Formula I engines. We get 200 HP per liter They get a little less than 80 HP per liter>>> so it should equal out.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Don

You got a better driver hidden back? That ain't fair is it?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

I trust it will be a better format than the November show. The 14 car maximum for the features, along with the short 15 lap distance, was bush league.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Il

We been bush league for years. Somebody has to do it might as well be us. I think taking the Go Karts out of the mix will go a long way for better racing. A track that would work for us would have most of them bouncing down the track on their heads. That track crew is capable of giving us a very good race track and letting that upstart PowerI bunch come in ahead of us to give them something to practice on can only help.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

There will be a full program and Steve is working on obtaining transponders so we can start a full field of cars. He is also working on adding some seating for spectators. Without the karts this should run smoother.

If I could please have some basic info for those thinking about coming like car number driver and hometown this would be great. You can either post on this thread or send me a pm on here or on Facebook.

This will help us put together a smoother format. Right now we are looking at a large car count.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Is this a Steve Nace promoted event?

Yes Steve is promoting the event and he has asked me to help him.

We will be there in the Aaron Schuck Motorsports SETracing Engines Chevrolet ECOtec number 53.......could we not call them "sportsman" midgets. I have a midget with an ECOtec in it, we race hard.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Amen!!!! nor "limited", Lite or even the word "mini" is a bad word when it comes to race fans...they think we are a "SMALL" 2nd rate red headed step child along with promoters. as in "Oh your a sportsman class so I can give ya $50.00 a car and left over hotdogs"...just the miss conception that humans have...we are a second tier group and a prominent promoter said we are like colleges are, Division I and Division II class or D-2....got to get around that downgraded perception.....Aaron Schuck for President!!!!!!

and HEAVY on the :22: "WE RACE HARD":22: part

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

This is the million dollar question that I talked about today with Steve who is promoting this race. I was asked what should we advertise this race as being? The problem I have is if we call it a lightning sprint race that is not correct either. This would be confusing since we are allowing several different types of cars. Promoter does not want to call this a midget race but I am not sure what else to call it to keep things politically correct.

I am open to any suggestions because I have no clue what to call this race.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Set

Heck I change names once a week. Just can't get a handle on it. I am however are settling in to Sportsman Midget, as opposed to, Mini or Lightning anything. I do know for sure we are a lot closer to Midget than to Sprint anything. I have used names like 1000 cc midget, Metric Midget, Motor Cycle Midget, and even Division II Midget.

I can't help the fact that you use a drive shaft, and we use a chain to get power to the ground. We use Motorcycle Motors with a clutch, transmission and most of the other stuff that came on the motor cycle when it came off the bike. You guys have to change a few more things to fit your motor into the race car. In fact power to weight we are very close to one another.

The fact is that neither of us is a National Midget nor do we want to be. The Division II, or Sportsman defines us perfectly. We race for fun and not for Money. Most of us can not afford to race with the National Bunch. Why would we want to put such a specific name on our cars as Echo Tec or what ever. Motors change every year>>Gm is moving away from the Echo Tec and Motorcycles change every 2 or 3 years. I think that we are close enough together that we can race together pretty competitively and have a lot of fun in the process. We are the perfect for a young gun to start out in or an old pro to settle back in when the pressure of professional racing gets just plain old.

I hope to see a bunch of Midget sized cars at DuQuoin with all types of power plants. I look forward to having a ball.

See you there.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Being old I hate "Politically Correct" any thing call an "Ace" an "Ace".

I could settle for "Midget" with no modifier what so ever. Racing together on a Bull Ring race track the average fan or for that matter me either would ever know the difference.

We would just race under a slightly different rule sheet.

What we need is a Sponsor to supply our first name for us.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Bill,

Just waiting to see that big trophy we was talking about on the phone.

Jay

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Wayne

We are in fact really just plain old unadulterated Midgets. Not Second String Midgets, Not Sportsman Midgets, Just plain old "Midgets" with a different set of rules from other groups. The ARDC and IMRA race Midgets but do they and PowerI share the same rule book?

We need someone to come in and set down a simple non politically motivated set of rules to race under, and one that could used by other local groups to base their rules off of.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

PS . Trendy are you taking in Boarders? I may get deported.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Actually ARDC, USAC and PowrI national are very much the same rules as far as the car and engine is......I don't care what they are called as long as the rules are the same and don't do like tracks do and make the rules so you have to stay racing with them and them only....
Biggest thing I'm up against down here is "WHERE CAN I GO TO BUY A CAR LIKE THIS?" Well you can get a used midget roller buy and ecotec engine, put it in or one with a out of date focus engine or USAC new Honda engine or a lightning sprint with a 1000cc (built/not built/1200?)..See where I'm going with this Bill...if they where all the same buying and RESELL would be much much easier....

You are very damn correct...We need a non political party or body to step in and say....

Here are the rules for all parties to adapt to without any bickering. There are about 10 groups East of the Mississippi along with 7-8 with similar rules west of the Mississippi...

1 thought is:... say 18 groups under 1 big umbrella, after my research on doing this Gator "DIRT" Nationals there are somewhere in the neighborhood of over 400 of these cars (Winged/Non Wing Mini/Lightning Sprints/Ecotec/Duratec/Focus/Honda/Quad 4/Sportsman/Lite/Midgets) out there...AND GROWING....Just on DIRT!!!... That is alot of clout and if we all stood united together with 1 common goal and a uniformed set of rules...WOW....

OK I woke up...having a fantasy there Bill, sorry....America was built on dreams..Hell I'm racing a dream and there is room for everybody...We do this for the love and Passion for the sport (or at least I do) and have not made a dime as a driver/car owner/promoter but I have been able to keep my nose just out of the water and continue the dream.

I am in hope with all that is coming to Florida we can look back and say we raced against the best of all the clubs and series that will be here and we can talk about coming back next year maybe with and even a more uniformed set of rules.

This 2015 Gator "DIRT" Nationals will tell everyone alot as far as who/what/can be competitive with each other.

So people do understand I am a retired-disabled man and spend a hell of a lot of time on this computer gathering data for each series whether it be:

DMA (Dirt Midget Assoc), PowrI Outlaw Midgets, ELS (Empire Lightning Sprints) SideWinders of Pa., USAC Focus East, SSMS (me), MMSA (Midwest Mini Sprints), SOMS (Southern Ohio Mini Sprints), AMSA (American Mini Sprints), ILLS (Illinois Lightning Sprints), IMRA (Illinois Midget Racing), IRS (Illini Racing Series), MLS (Midwest Lightning Sprints), Kenyon Midgets, WIMS (Wisconsin Illinois Mini Sprints), RMLSA (Rocky Mountain Lightning Sprint Assoc), RMMRA (Rocky Mountain Midget Racing Assoc), CLS (California Lightning Sprints), WDM (Washington Dirt Midgets) or the National midgets. We are all together in this and need to be UNITED together.....I know most will say "Blow it out your ass old man" but again one can dream...Thanks for reading..

Look at what happens when you stand UNITED for a common cause!!

ASCS / Canyon Region

ASCS / Gulf South Region

ASCS / Lone Star Region

ASCS / Midwest Series

ASCS / Northwest Tour

ASCS / Rebel Region

ASCS / Sooner Region
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ASCS / Southwest Region

ASCS / Sprints on Dirt

ASCS / Warriors Region

ASCS SoCal Sprint Series

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

How about the "(amount of winning prize money) Midgets"? Like "$500-$900 Midgets"? The higher the number, the cooler it would sound...kinda like "600 Sprints" or anything that adds "600" to the name, sounds better than "micro" or "mini"...I wish "restricted midgets" didn't sound bad...that is what it is...smart people actually have come up with rules to "restrict" resources and try to keep the cost below $40,000...there is nothing wrong with that...

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Or how about "200HP Midgets"? (and then keep the rules & tech so the cars stay in that range...?)

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Jason

Who wants to stay the same. We have been able to improve year in and year out because the manufactures have done it for us. Compare a newer automotive 4 valve engine to a Pinto motor, compare a late model motorcycle to an old oil cooled Suzuki. We are the next best thing to a Full Midget at one sixth the cost. Sidewinders are neat but we are the "Real Deal". I have said for years put a side winder driver in one of our cars and it would be hard to put them back in the little cars.

I am with Wayne hopefully our day will come, we have been very fortunate to date, Money has not really raised it's ugly head, with the Mini Sprints mostly because throwing money at a high performance 1000 cc motorcycle engine is useless, and with the case of the small automotive engine powered Midget because the rule makers have saw fit to make easily enforceable rules to hold them in check.

BEWARE:: While throwing money at a Motorcycle engine does not yield much increase in power the same can not be said for the Automotive type engines. Remember the Lawn Mower and the Formula I Motors. Horsepower is in the Head>>>> durability is in materials and design. We can re engineer an Echo Tec and in a short period of time turn it into a Full Bore $40,000.00 National Midget Motor. That should not be our desire. But Human Nature being what it is, is what will happen without a very good set of rules. A $4000.00 cylinder head could turn an Echo tec into a Monster but the rods and pistons would govern the amount of power that it could develop for an extended period of time.

Midgets lost control when everybody started using purpose built heads, blocks and internals seeking more power and durability over stock. The motor design of choice for a Midget is 50 years old. A lot has happened in those years. Rules have been made to encourage the continued use of purpose built race engines over the development of new engines as they have come on line.

We are on to something in our "----------" type Midgets whether Motorcycle or newer Automotive engines design. We are ready to break out and move up. Lets use our heads and do it right. Heck who knows in a few years we might be racing over sized electric powered RC Cars and looking for high performance cheater batteries. Ask Casey Shuman.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

I like "Just over 2-Litre Shaft/Around 1-Litre Chain Depending on Where You Run Normally Midgets with "Litre" Spelled Funny for Our Mates Down Under".
Relax, I'm kidding; IMRA, SSMS and the Montpelier Midget Series all use the term "Midget" with no modifier to describe their respective clubs. Each has a slightly different rules package but so do USAC and POWRI. At the risk of sounding political, we coud use the slogan "Equal Rights Midgets - We Don't Discriminate!"

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Jim

I knew there was a name I had left out. "Litre Midget" with the down under spelling but then you are putting your self in a pigeon hole again. We started out "1200 Outlaw Mini Sprint" and then the manufactures started placing their interest in 1000cc Motors and we had to change the whole name thing around. Times change.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

That's why I added "Just Over" and "Around", to allow wiggle room. But again it's, ah say it's a joke, son.
What is it the late, great Chris Economaki once said? "Let 'em all run!"

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Jim

"Ah say it's a joke, son" quote: Foghorn Leghorn:D

"Let them all run!" Amen

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

I think for right now D II Midget should suffice. Just attach any name starting with the letter "D" that you want. If you race a Midget regularly with a group like IMRA You would be expected to race with us under their Rules concerning Porting and pistons valves etc. Bring a copy of their rules with you.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

[QUOTE=DAD;399937]I think for right now D II Midget should suffice. Just attach any name starting with the letter "D" that you want. If you race a Midget regularly with a group like IMRA You would be expected to race with us under their Rules concerning Porting and pistons valves etc. Bring a copy of their rules with you.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:[/QUOT


This sounds perfect and simple to me and eliminates making a bunch of rules that already are out there.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Looking like a great car count so far I have drivers from Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Indiana and Missouri.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

This thread is reminding me of the NATIONAL MIDGET FORUM from a few years back. It might be time to think about it again but as a SPORTSMAN MIDGET FORUM. The National Forum gathered all of the Midget leaders together to discuss the state of Midget Racing. They would talk about rules, safety, tires, accidents that happened and how to prevent them, insurance, promotion etc. The forum had no power to make things happen but just by talking it through things did change for the better. Just a thought.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Midgets are Midgets no matter what engine is in them. If you want to change the name to anything call them Speedcars like down under.

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Ray

Somehow Speedcar just does not give me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside and up and down my leg so to speak. Litre is another thing altogether that word is cool.

I think what it is with the Mini Sprints is we have always been Midgets but the new guys racing midgets could not remember back to when midgets were crude and ran chain drive also and did not want to include us in their ranks.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Call them "Regional Midgets"

"Most Discussed Midgets".........lol

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Reminds me of a scene from an old play,hundreds of years old.

Midget:

O Mini Sprint, Mini Sprint! wherefore art thou Mini Sprint?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name;
Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,
And I'll no longer be a Midget.

Mini Sprint:

[Aside] Shall I hear more, or shall I speak at this?

Midget:

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Midget.
What's Midget? it is nor wheel, nor tire,
Nor hood, nor tailtank, nor any other part
Belonging to a Midget. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Mini Sprint would, were he not Mini Sprint call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Mini Sprint, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

Mini Sprint:

I take thee at thy word:
Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized;
Henceforth I never will be Mini Sprint

Times change but things always stay the same.>>> Thank You Mr. Shakespeare.;)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Wow. The Bard of the Ohio doth speakest truth!
I may just print up a stack of these and the next time someone at a gas station asks "Is that a dune buggy?" I'll just hand them one and walk away.
Now if I can just get that image of Dad "Will" Jones in tights and a velvet hat out of my head...

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Jim

The "Devil made me do it". Interesting though that history and events do reoccur. Nothing new under the sun.

Now about me in them tights, I got a picture of me in a purple wet suit somewhere years ago when Doug was little and he called me "Barney the Dinosaur".:) If I can find it I will try to post it, that should cause a bunch of thrills.:5:

One of these days!!!!

By the way >>>>that Play did not end well. Hope we can change our ending.:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Wayne

Would those be your new spec tires on that car?. That sure would take the motor out of the equation. The engines we race with today make much more power than either the little 110 Offy or V8 60 Ford they raced with back then, and the Evenrude would not even be in the ballpark. If you were to walk up to them racers and ask one of them what stagger are you running and what is you shock valving, they would just give you one of them What the heck are you talking about looks.

New movie title "Back to the Future Midget Racer".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Sportsman Midget/Lightning Sprint Race at DuQuoin
 

Wayne

Maybe we are just learning that we can indeed call ourselves "Midget Race Car Racers" and not try to hide behind some contrived name designed to detract from what we really do race. We race Midgets with a defined type of Power Plant.

Have you seen any V8 Hemi Powered Midgets lately. I did see one race many many years ago it was powered by a little V8 Daimler (a Ford V8 60 with a set of Adurn heads sitting on top of the baby V8.)

We Use the same car but choose to vary the specs for our engines. The drive train should have never been an issue.:)

Honest Dad himself:6::6: