Does chassis age matter?
 

I am new to dirt racing and just bought a used sprint car. The chassis is an 04' but comes with paperwork and is straight off the table/checked. Most of the bolt ons are pretty new, maybe 8-10 races old. If the car is dead straight, and the bolt on pieces are in new/good shape, does the year or the chassis really matter? I've gotten a few conflicting opinions, I just thought I'd ask here and see the consensus.

The big difference is the older cars are heavier. But they will also not bend as easily in a crash.
I have been running a 98 or 99 Doemelt.
It's old. It's heavy. It works for me.

I say as long as the chassis is straight and the spuds arent wore out its not much of an issue unless you think so in your head. If on a budget id spend the extra money on suspension,brakes,motor, rotating weight, and most of all good safety gear. I have yet to ever hear a good argument why the year of the chassis matters

Over time the materials can stress etc but I don't think it really bothers things perhaps under the right conditions may be a benefit. As was mentioned earlier they can be a bit heavier. My brother used to drive a tq midget for a guy that was built new in 74 and still won with it.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Originally Posted by badcoupe:
Over time the materials can stress etc but I don't think it really bothers things perhaps under the right conditions may be a benefit. As was mentioned earlier they can be a bit heavier. My brother used to drive a tq midget for a guy that was built new in 74 and still won with it.

Back several years ago, it was bandied about, that the "memory" life of chrome moly was considered 7 yrs, but having built several, and repaired several, I kinda take exception to that thought, I'm sure that one that has been "rode hard, and put away wet", will not probably be as good as one that has had good maintenance, and a somewhat not so aggressive life. Bob

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

j

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

I like mine between 18 and 40.... but, have seen a few as old as mid 50's...But, just as tq29 stated, how hard they been used is important:5::6::

Originally Posted by ossuks:
I like mine between 18 and 40.... but, have seen a few as old as mid 50's...But, just as tq29 stated, how hard they been used is important:5::6::

Are still talking about chassis' or women...? :)

It's not much the age as more importantly the kind of mileage it's been through.

Why you can have two cars off the same table be so different. If the builder say starts welding on one corner working around the car and the next time starts welding another way the metal is pulled different . Its not the same that's why a lot of drivers like there favored car and will have it fixed and fixed to keep it. Molly does not care if its new or 15 years old if its a good car run it if you can adjust it keep it metal memory is crap . If its bent fix it . If the car works good you keep it

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Jim Berry would be the guy to answer this question.

How old was that SPRINT Car that Tony Stewart drove for Glen Niebel the year he won the Triple Crown in USAC? Best I can remember it was almost as old as the driver.;)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Run it until it quits working. I thought the car age thing was BS, but this season I felt the change in mine. I also had it repaired by someone different, which I think was a large part of the issue. If I can feel it, and my crew chief is complaining that he has to make bigger adjustments, well, it's time for a new one. My first car was 8 years old and had no issues aside from weight. I ran that one until I bent it, and I would have had it repaired if there were any good sprint car frame guys in Rhode Island.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Jim is the man I'm referring to lol! Bob Nichols always told us as long as all 4 wheels were on the ground the car didn't know it was bent etc. and could be made to work, it might just like something different.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Best I can remember this life expectancy theory does not hold true as we move up in class. I think the life expectancy of a WOL chassis is somewhere around a dozen shows if they don't wad it up first. Something about the chassis loosing some of its torsional rigidity and not responding as well as some of those drivers would like.

Most of those guys own very sensitive butts, that the average racer does not have access to and it shows in their pay checks. They are more critical in what they are expecting out of a chassis.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Hey thanks for all the input!

I know its not dirt but don't tell Myers and Gerster that age matters. That 50 car is not new.

Originally Posted by snoopy:
I know its not dirt but don't tell Myers and Gerster that age matters. That 50 car is not new.

I built that chassis in 3 days back in 1991. It won its debut race at Salem with Steve Butler at the wheel.

I have had brand new cars from a reputable chassis manufacturer that would not work no matter what I tried while other identical chassis from the same manufacturer were winning.

The chassis Larson won 3 Oskaloosa races with was 4 years old and had major repairs (pulled straight and significant tubing replaced 3 times.

I don't believe the age or straightness matters as much as some other unknown quality in making a chassis work.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

We won DuQuoin this year with a car that is at least 10 years old and a motor that is also 5-7 years old. You can make an older car work.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Once the loads on a chassis exceed a certain point it starts to take a permanent "set". That means bent in layman's terms. Most people are surprised to learn a mild steel chassis [1020] will be just as stiff as a chrome moly chassis [4130] since the modulus of elasticity is the same [30,000,000 psi]. What is different is the load at which they take a permanent "set."
The big tires and high horsepower of today's national midgets and all 360/410 sprint cars are capable of twisting even the best chassis. Our sportsman midgets and most other "lower classes" aren't able to produce the loads needed to create a permanent "set".
Think of all those Kurtis midgets that won races for 20 or 30 years; unless crashed they didn't get loaded enough to bent.
I was once told a midget really starts to handle after it has been upside down. Maybe it serves as a vibratory stress relief. Variation from chassis to chassis could be welding sequence or stress relief related. Theoretically 4130 requires a stress relief, 1020 doesn't. It has to do with carbon content.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

When I was building chassis, I used a kind of free standing jig, square, plumb and level, all the stuff needed, then on each end, I started with the torsion bar tubes, mounted at the height I wanted, then bent the lower rails, and tacked them on, then the top rails, and tacked them on, then the motorplate tubes, and so on, using a digital square, and tube spacers I had made, to keep the tubes the same distance apart, I had stops on the jig to locate the tubing, but not clamp it tight, that allowed it to expand, then return to it's normal state as it cooled, then I had developed a welding sequence, that didn't concentrate a lot of heat in one area, then moved to the other side, and back and forth till it was all done. That more or less took most of the stress out of the chassis, then a good flip relieved the rest, which seems to happen unexpectedly. My car was built in 1998, and can still be set with as little as a 1/4 turn on any corner. I also used tubing that had the same heat treat numbers, especially on the main chassis members. Bob

Informative thread.... I am picking up a car tomorrow that's a bit older but is fresh and has new components. This was a good read. I am planning on stripping it and taking it to someone just to have it checked and re powder coated. That way I can go through it and I am confident in what I have.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Originally Posted by zerospeed:
Informative thread.... I am picking up a car tomorrow that's a bit older but is fresh and has new components. This was a good read. I am planning on stripping it and taking it to someone just to have it checked and re powder coated. That way I can go through it and I am confident in what I have.

Zero

Ninety Eight Percent of the reader racers on IOW are sportsman racers. They have a day job also, of these about ten percent have to have a race car just like their hero races or the guy that is winning the most in the class they choose to race in. All too often a racer new to the class thinking that they can spend their way to victory gets an awakening that just perhaps It might require more than money to race up front, leaving us with a disgruntled racer and a very expensive race car for sale at a discounted price.

If you are new to the sport DON'T hock the farm to go racing, get a hold of somebody with a tad more experience than you and go shopping>>>stay away from those cheap expensive race cars, rather look for a good solid older car 10 year old cars are great for gaining "seat time" after a couple of years racing then it is time to decide in what direction you wish to go. In that time you will be much better prepared to know what is hot and also by that time maybe you will have the seat time to take advantage of a better race car.

Like the preacher said "Do as I say>>>Not as I did";):D

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Just run it Flat Rock! lol

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Originally Posted by wingtrail:
I am new to dirt racing and just bought a used sprint car. The chassis is an 04' but comes with paperwork and is straight off the table/checked. Most of the bolt ons are pretty new, maybe 8-10 races old. If the car is dead straight, and the bolt on pieces are in new/good shape, does the year or the chassis really matter? I've gotten a few conflicting opinions, I just thought I'd ask here and see the consensus.

Wing

You should spend a little money on new bars or having yours checked and getting your shocks rebuilt. You will need all the help you can get, and trying to race a car with unknown suspension problems is frustrating.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Don't know if chassis age means anything or not, but I have been running top 5's with a 1994 non wing 360. It's bent , twisted, and heavy, but the wheels almost point straight... LOL

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Upon reading thiswhy do I keep thinking of Troy Link? :D

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

I was thinking the same thing Gregg. But troy has gone to a Maxim here in the last year or two. That old Comp Welding car, I think he said was a '89 but it was no later than early 90s

The car that Troy was running was built in 2000! That is what Troy told me!

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

I think thats the Maxim thats a 2000 :) I've only seen him run it once and I remember the announcer saying it was a Maxim, But a pretty old Maxim.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Troy has a 2013 Maxim... He bought it at Bernie`s last winter.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Thanks Dan. Haven't actually talked with Troy since before Ember Passed. But always enjoy seeing him out there.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

If you really pay attention to a racing season you will most like likely see some common patterns. Often at the beginning of the year there are more than a few guys who are faster than they were at the end of the previous year. After talking with them you will normally find out that they either got a new car and parts or stripped the older car and had it checked and upgraded the parts. As the season wears along, you will see guys who were once strong starting to fade. Maybe a crash or two and normal wear and tear. Some guys will maybe take time off in the middle of the year around sprint week to freshen the car and they become fast again. Some guys aren't fast until the next year.

Is it a case of money problems or lack of taking car of the equipment, lack of time, or lack of knowledge; I'm not sure. My point is that you can have the best of everything or older equipment, but the key is to take care of what you have, learn about what you have and to take proper care of what you have and you will be way ahead of the game. The old saying is the best saying: Races are won in the garage.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

Race cars are constantly evolving, that's a given, doesn't matter what series your running in there's always someone looking for an edge. What was great last season might at best be a midfield car this season. You always need to be looking for that advantage no one else has got if you want to run up front.

Re: Does chassis age matter?
 

I posted earlier that the car will lose something with age/abuse/repairs. I did not include some caveats, which others have mentioned.

Make sure that the bars are good. I do not use a rate checker, I just replace old/abused bars. The reason for this is that bar rate will not usually change, as rate is a function of material and size. But... ... response of the bar will change on a molecular level. Too much detail there for a message board.

Shocks. Have your shocks dynoed and tuned by a good shock builder. I have had new shocks that overlapped on the rate numbers, i.e. a 3 compression shock that was stiffer than a 4 compression by the same manufacturer. This was driven home one night when I was pedaling a loose car in TT, and I changed shocks from a 4/10 non adjustable to a 4/10 adjustable by the same manufacturer. After the change the car was driveable wide open all over the track. Eye opening experience. I now use a good shock builder and know what my shocks are. My car feel has also progressed with my shock program.

Without consistent shocks and bars I probably would not notice the change in the frame.

I agree with most that age does not matter. We have an 05 coil over micro sprint and in our area most have 2010 and newer four bar micros. I was told my car will never be competitive yet we are very competitive. We have also run older midget chassis with success.

The key is knowing your car and what it needs setup wise. The two critical things we have always made sure we had in top condition were bars/springs and shocks.

A chassis does not know its age. A chassis only knows what you are telling it to do through your driving and setup.

Maintenance and knowledge of your car will always be your best combo for success.