What happened?
 

As I grew up, LBurg and other tracks ran shows with two premium classes and a support. It was always Sprint and Late Models and Beatles or street stocks or a type of modified.

Sprint and Midget shows once in awhile with CORA or NAMARS. I guess the fact that there isn't another org in the area kinda hurts that but Powri has ran a few at Bloom, and Tri State.

Seems now tracks are either LM or Sprint tracks and honestly, Both suffer because of it attendance. Mods are great but its becoming clear that its not the eco class that it was started to be and people are jumping ship pretty quick because to be a front runner you almost got LM funds in the car.

I don't blame the tracks too much but both top classes together would have great crowds.

The first time I ever showed up at Bloominton in 1988 They had a NW sprint and LM night 40 laps each and I think it was 2 grand to win in each There were 40 cars in both classes and I flat out loved it. The fact that Randy Kinser, Bob Kinser and Rick Hood ran three wide and a hard charging Greg Staab rom 17th was knocking on their rear nerfs trying to get by was just a bonus. Bob Kinser edged it out but it was one of the greatest NW races I ever seen. Then we seen Godsey, Petro, Gill and others in the LM's

Im not suggesting weekly, But maybe twice a year, Would it be worth say 25 bucks to see a couple 4 grand to win 40 lappers with the top two dirt divisions and no undercard?

Just looking or creativity, We have our racing favorites now, But I do miss the Downey and Herbert on the High Side and Gillardi and Englin on the bottom LM's as much as The great sprint racing we also saw.

Re: What happened?
 

Not sure about there but here it seems it was technolgy. The more tech the late models bought the more they pressured promotors to get the track glassy and smoth to get maximun return on their investment. And the Modifieds have followed suit. Any kind of cushion is prohibited and every effort is made to not let one develop.
Promoters in this area only through enough water a few hours before racing on a track they have pounded to death all week to get some wheelspin to get the track blackened off as quick as possable. there are times it takes rubber before hot laps are done.
The result is when the traveling sprint car group in this area is on the card they can only basically idle the turns and try to drag race the straights. Or occasionally run single file on a rubbered down track.
Hard to get new sprint fans with that.

We are probably only the only area where race fans pray it rains pretty good the morning of race day. It takes a few hours of rain to soften the hardpan and get any moisture in the track.

Re: What happened?
 

I know and I miss it too!

When I first started going to Williams Grove in 1978 they raced Super Sprints and Super Late Models weekly. It was a great program filled with the areas best in both divisions. The pits and the stands were packed! Port Royal is the only track in the area that still runs 410 Sprints and Late Models on the same card weekly.

You don't think 800 HP motors and 6 tire compounds had anything to do with slicked off race tracks ?

Re: What happened?
 

A lot of things have to do with slicked off tracks.

A Number one is being packed way too hard and not enough moisture down in the track. I've seen tracks go all night with over a hundred cars running on it
without taking any rubber and I've seen tracks rubbered over before hot laps were done.

Wind, Sun and dust are major players even if the track has good moisture in it. If the top of the track drys before cars dig into it. Dust immediately gets spun into the surface and is abrasive to tires.

Two races come to mind for me as examples of good and bad.
50th anniversary race or USAC at Eldora and had a 50 lap feature. The really didn't touch the track all night. It was the middle of august and 90+ degrees. NO RUBBER at all, I think they ran mods and Eldora Stocks with it.

Gas City this spring, I think the first race they had this year and the Drivers Meeting lasted 45 minutes and another 15-20 minutes to get the cars on the track, The track sat over a hour after getting wheel packed. OMG, The B****ING I seen on here and facebook, They worked the track between heats and consis and everyone said those races were great. Talked with a track worker and he said the track was prepped perfect, It just sat for a hour before a car took a lap. INSTANT SLICK!

I know theres going to be back and forth about Tri State and IMHO its two much. Three track sessions in one night, But I sure don't mind one and a little spot work throughout a night to keep a track from Locking down.

I kinda love the way they've been doing Terre Haute and hitting trouble spots between the heats. A couple extra warmup laps and race! Track keeps widening but yet maybe by the end of the feature gets some rubber.

Re: What happened?
 

Originally Posted by dirt in ur beer:
You don't think 800 HP motors and 6 tire compounds had anything to do with slicked off race tracks ?

NO! It's preparation.......

Ok , the more I think about it u guys r right about track prep being responsible. It came to me that I've been to knoxville several times that the Dunkins had the track "too" good . Sorry , I was wrong .

Re: What happened?
 

Originally Posted by cecil98:
NO! It's preparation.......

How many times Cecil could we walk out on LBurg after Sprints/LM's and Stock features and the track would suck our shoes off?

Mel Johnson was the man! Miss him!

Re: What happened?
 

FINALLY it has come out!!! That would the greatest decision ever.... sprints and late models on the same card especially at the Burg! I grew up there, worked there and raced there and in the past that place was packed every Saturday nite when they were on the card. You hear year after year that it will happen and year after year.... NOTHING!! This needs to happen. I don't care if it happens 2 times a year... it needs to be done. I live 10 minutes from the place and can't even use it except for practice or the Merrill Downey race. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bitter.. I am, especially when it comes to this subject. JMO

In the late 60's and certainly through the 70's when I would attend Tri-State (Haubstadt) I seem to recall they always ran Sprint Cars and Late Models. I personally think it would be pretty neat to see them run on the same program. My concern is it might be pretty tough to attractant a good field of LM's w/o promising a substantial purse. Unlike Sprint Cars, I don't think there is a large pool of LM's to draw from in Indiana. Living down here in LM country now, and observing the LM teams down here, it seems LM teams won't make a long haul unless there is at least a 3K winners purse posted.

Re: What happened?
 

We would gladly trade places with anyone who wants to watch late models.

You guys realize that Haubstadt just had this very show and got 12 late models. LM are gone, killed by costs and the introduction of modifieds to split the fields. Tommy ran Wing sprints and Late Models both up through the mid nineties until both fields fell below 15 cars in each and then LM were dropped and soon sprints switched to NW. Those years around 1992 or so were some of the best racing I ever saw, but I'm afraid it won't be back. Hope I'm wrong.

Agreed!!! I'm 5 hrs from nonwing sprintcar land !

Re: What happened?
 

I know we have taken up more than our share of space here this week talking about our races at Lincoln and Jacksonville this weekend... but half the reason is because the kind of shows you are asking for... and we are having this weekend... are high risk shows. They can and do make it, but its not hard for circumstances to make them really, really upside down.

When is the last time you saw 410 Winged Sprints, National Midgets and Late Models on the same card? That's this Friday at Lincoln Speedway. Saturday is both the MOWA Championship and POWRi Championship on the same card. We have had at least 3 of those scheduled this year and lost 2 of them to rain (opening night at Lincoln, and the Herb Barlow Memorial).

But one of the biggest problems is figuring out under what conditions fans will actually show up. I will drive my kid to Champaign to freeze all day bundled up in November to an Illinois football game and watch a pathetic display of football... but if it's 60 degrees in October with a slight wind, people want to stay home from car races. If there's a 30% or greater chance of rain you can count on losing about the same percentage of your crowd. When it's not too cold, then it's too hot if the needle gets above 90. We can't predict the weather when we schedule shows so it's way easier to be conservative - not knowing the factors you will be fighting when the show gets here.

Then if you get stuck with weather where you can see in advance is going to keep people away, you can't cancel without alienating much of your fan base. One of the smartest cancellations of the year was the Gold Crown last week. There was no way enough people were going to show up in that weather to give Kevin and Tammy a fighting chance to do anything but lose a ton of money. But if you read their Facebook page that day you would have swore that they somehow owed it to us to take a huge bath for the good of the sport. How is that good for the sport? Don't begrudge a track that cancels a race simply to live to fight another day.

Then we have the whole issue of people not showing up due to too many classes. The Lincoln show is 4 total classes - 3 of which are the premier classes you are asking for but I've already heard people say that they aren't willing to sit through the stock cars. You have to understand that what keeps the track open week to week for you to come enjoy the big specials are the weekly racers and fans. We need those people in the house at the specials too. They don't necessarily care about the big name driver at the big show... but they will show up to watch their brother or buddy race his stock car every week.... and they have to pay more to do it when the special rolls around. It takes people to have these shows. There's no sense in planning a show where you leave 500 fans home who are willing to come. It makes that hill even harder to climb. It's not back-gate promoting. There isn't a single class in today's world that pays for itself in the back. It's the fans they bring that ads to the overall fan count needed to clear the hurdle. There's a middle ground that most every promoter tries to find... put on an efficient and good show - but put enough butts in the seats to make it work.

It drives me nuts when people complain about Bob Sargent racing a number of local classes on the same night as a POWRi show at Macon. If anybody through the years has figured out the economics of making a race track stay alive - it's him. He races those other classes because they put people in the stands. A race track needs that. Maybe it takes those other classes for you to have the chance to enjoy the midgets several times a year. Look around. Not everyone is wearing a Chili Bowl T-shirt.

Trust that your race track promoter in today's economy is planning shows that give the event its best chance of success. Don't begrudge a track that filled the house one night and made a hefty deposit because I guarantee you that there were nights where one of the factors I mention above required him to go make a sizable withdrawal.

Don't take this as being snippy. I have kind of digressed from the topic at hand. But next time the weather is a little on the questionable side, or a track might have added a class that doesn't interest you... show up. Support your track. Call the promoter and talk to him about your concerns about a show being too long or having too many classes. You will probably find that there was a well thought-out reason behind it... or he might just agree with you and change things next time.

And when a track has made an effort to plan a show that appeals to you... Go if you can. Staying home over some minor inconveniences accomplishes nothing. We're in this together.

If the shows you are asking for... two or three big classes on the same card worked repeatedly then I can assure you that tracks would schedule them. They will happen more often if you support them regardless of many of the above factors being present.

Our shows were planned knowing October weather is less than ideal, that it's harvest season and that there would be a good chance of the Cardinals in the playoffs this weekend. What we have racing is what will give them their best chance of success. We hope you join us... or support another race track this weekend that is fighting less than perfect circumstances. Thanks for the opportunity for the little rant!

Re: What happened?
 

Pulled this quote from a good and committed late model fan on another forum commenting about our Lincoln show:

Originally Posted by :
Lincoln is a good track. Black/Black dirt. When prepped right, and usually is, hammer down fast. Check out the vids from the Summernats this year. Feger and Pierce were both on their roofs that night. Cool temps will mean fast track. Sprints are OK. Powri Midgets don't do much for me. That's when I stretch the legs.

Great example of a great fan 'dealing with it' to support a show that might be less than 'perfect' for him. Not only do we need him in the house... YOU need him in the house.

Re: What happened?
 

Attica Raceway Park races 410 sprints, late models and 305 sprints weekly. All three divisions put on a great show. I'm a die-hard sprint car fan, but don't head for the exit when the late models run when I'm there.

Well what do ya know !!!! Here is the reason for my sarcastic (some didn't get) post on another thread. These guys put an unbelievable amount of thought into their decisions of what classes and shows to run. Running a race track is legalized gambling , a lot like farming. When they do well at it everyone thinks "that lucky moneybags bleepity bleep". But when they go bankrupt people remark is " oh look dumbass lost the track/farm."

There r a couple grammatical errors in this post. I left them there for the people that it bothers.

Originally Posted by speedy20:
FINALLY it has come out!!! That would the greatest decision ever.... sprints and late models on the same card especially at the Burg! I grew up there, worked there and raced there and in the past that place was packed every Saturday nite when they were on the card. You hear year after year that it will happen and year after year.... NOTHING!! This needs to happen. I don't care if it happens 2 times a year... it needs to be done. I live 10 minutes from the place and can't even use it except for practice or the Merrill Downey race. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bitter.. I am, especially when it comes to this subject. JMO

Atomic races Sprints and LM I believe all the time and from what I understand they have good racing and good crowds and car counts most every weekend. The Burg also did not have a concrete Monster wrapped around it back in the day either. You could run a car a hundred foot off the track and not touch anything......My how times have changed.

Re: What happened?
 

In Haubstadts defense...they had a lot of shows running against their LM show.

We at Brownstown had 36 Late Models for a regular show just a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Chris Nunn:
In Haubstadts defense...they had a lot of shows running against their LM show.

We at Brownstown had 36 Late Models for a regular show just a few weeks ago.

...not THAT many, but point taken. Were those 36 super or crate, just curious. I have been to Btown a couple times and havent seen over 18 yet, except specials.

Re: What happened?
 

out of the 36, 9 were crates