Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

This is a poll to guage the interest of the 305 Racesaver Class next year in Indiana. I am not involved in the organization of this class, but am interested in how many cars can be expected. I would like to know what the deciding factor will be in your decision to become involved in the Racesaver program. Most likely it will be the purse and how responsable the rules will be governed. I have made the suggestion that the payout should resemble Eagle Raceway's breakdown of: 1st $700 2nd $500 3rd $400 4th $350 5th $325 6th $300 7th $295 8th $290 9th $285 10th $280 11th $275 12th $270 13th $265 14th $260 15th $255 16th through 20th $250. After researching other RACESAVER payouts across the country, I have noticed that their payouts are similar to Eagle Raceway. PLEASE ONLY VOTE IF YOU ARE A CURRENT CAR OWNER/RACER OR POTENTIAL RACESAVER PARTICIPANT. Anyone that is almost certain they will get a car, I can add your name to the list if you want just send PM.

Please do not hijack the thread with comments about how much you hate wings and the Racesaver 305's. Wing haters seem to be a common thing here on IOW. If you need to address your displeasure start a new thread " Why I hate wings" or you can select option 3 in the poll.

Car count:
#1 Mickey Smith
#2 Luke Bland
#3 Bill May
#4 Josh Web
#5 Evan Pemberton
#6 Kerry Kinser

THAT WILL NOT BE THE PAYOUT I don't believe I hope so.

Interesting results so far.
I would like to see names of those that plan to participate.
I have been surprised by the amount of chatter and interest this has stirred.
It will be interesting to see how many 305's are at the season opener in 2015.

Aim. Get one ready 2014 xxx

I'm not going to vote in your poll because I am not a car owner, but I do want to make a comment.

I feel it is not realistic to expect a purse like you have posted above. The total for 20 positions is $6,300. That amount is too high for a support class.

Here is Bloomington's current purse structure for a 20 car field as posted on their website:

Sprints - $7,895
Modifieds - $3,435
Super Stocks - $2,880
Hornets - $950

The purse you have posted above is only $15 less than the modified and super stock purses combined.

In my opinion it would be unrealistic to expect any track to increase their payout by 41.5%.

To keep the total purse the same, they would need to replace the modified & super stock class with the Raceceiver class. 20 modifieds & 20 super stocks would bring in more pit pass & general admission ticket sales than 20 Raceceiver sprints, so to me that doesn't make sense either.

I suggest waiting until an official announcement is made by Bloomington Speedway regarding schedule and purse structure.

Originally Posted by Panama:
Interesting results so far.
I would like to see names of those that plan to participate.
I have been surprised by the amount of chatter and interest this has stirred.
It will be interesting to see how many 305's are at the season opener in 2015.

I posted this in another thread; Id like to see people on here post on this thread if they plan on running the 305 class next season,so there can be a running list of drivers/owners who plan on fielding a car. I think if people will commit on here, it will help lure out some other potential drivers who may be unsure about putting a car together due to a low car count. I think the two biggest deciding factors for drivers/owners will be the Payout Structure, and the car count. Nobody will want to commit if there is not going to be enough cars to field a class, so I think an ongoing list would help with that.

Also, I like the payout structure Kerry posted, I think if its any less than that it really wouldnt make sense, when compared to cost of operating a car. If they are adding a class, they are obviously expecting an increase in overall purse. Coming from my half-assed driver perspective, I want to race for two reasons; competition (high car count), and a good purse. The second factor will cause the first.

Im not saying 305s are special and deserve more pay, I think purses should be increased across the board. Modifieds should make what the 410s currently make, and the 410 purse structure should be increased to something comparable to one of the weekly tracks in Ohio (Attica, Fremont)

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Yes payout needs to be raised across the board. I have heard from many retired sprint car drivers that in the 80's the payout was close to the same but the investment has certainly increased over the years. Also, I wish the term support class would go away. Some of these so called support classes have put on better races at times than the highest paying class of the night. Not saying these classes should pay as much as the non wing sprint feature but I still think they are worthy of a reasonable payout.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Point of interest

As a support class we are probably racing on back gate revenues. We are there to give the "Big Boys" time to work on their cars, and give the track more time to sell Hot dogs, Popcorn, and Cokes, and to help prevent massive traffic jambs on the way out of the race track. Hopefully the "Big Boys" draw a big enough crowd in the front gate to pay their purse, catch up on the shortage of the support class purse, pay the rent and hopefully give the operators enough money to keep the darned place open.

It is getting harder and harder for them to do that right now. With flack from the homeowners that chose to put up big houses all around a race track because after all it was out in the country at one time, environment lovers that think internal combustion in any form is the new sin of modern society and a government that need more and more taxes just so "they" can survive. Track are falling by the wayside.

Racers need to wise up, unless they want to turn the sport into a back gate only form of racing AKA Go Karts, They need to help those promoters make money and not begrudge them a living.

Fans out in the stands need to become mini promoters and work on friends and co workers to give racing a try, who knows them might like it also.

On many occasions the support class races are better than the main card race. Maybe because I watch them more intently maybe I didn't have time to watch the big race, but whatever the reason they are still support and until the front gate revenues can afford a bigger purse they will continue to be payed like support racers.

An old saying "It takes Money to make Money" In our case it's "loose money" and unless you are prepared to loose money as fast as the "Big Boys" you had better stay in the support role.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

If the purse is $250 to start and $100 tow money, I will sell my non wing 410 tomorrow. That's more $ in one night than I can get running 2 tracks with the 410.

I would think that a bigger purse would bring in more cars , more cars would equal more fans and family attending, which will result in more revenue for the track through the front and back gate. Its like the movie Field of Dreams, but for racing..."If you Pay more, they will come"

Also, while some may see the support classes as a way to fill in the gap or let people get popcorn between the "big Boys" track time, I would think as a driver my primary objective would be to drop the hammer as hard as anyone,and let the big boys know that youve got em in your sights. That's just my way of thinking and I would want to do as good as I could in the 305 class, with the objective of moving up to the 410s.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Originally Posted by Josh Kinser:
I would think that a bigger purse would bring in more cars , more cars would equal more fans and family attending, which will result in more revenue for the track through the front and back gate. Its like the movie Field of Dreams, but for racing..."If you Pay more, they will come"

Also, while some may see the support classes as a way to fill in the gap or let people get popcorn between the "big Boys" track time, I would think as a driver my primary objective would be to drop the hammer as hard as anyone,and let the big boys know that youve got em in your sights. That's just my way of thinking and I would want to do as good as I could in the 305 class, with the objective of moving up to the 410s.

Josh

Life isn't a movie, we don't have writers scripting our every move. Your job as a driver is to push it to your and yours car's limits, maybe just a tad more. Let them know that you are shooting for them but don't work so hard at it that it spoils your enjoyment of racing. Focus is a good thing but I have seen an awful lot of good drivers give up and throw in the towel because they couldn't achieve their goals. And I have seen a few drivers that would step down a division or two and race anyhow because they loved it, they always seemed to be the most happy and content.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

This purse would mean an average of $315 per car if a full field is reached (which will surely be a stretch to start). The point of a "support division" is for car-affiliated income to out-weigh total payback. If the average car includes 4 people ($120 in pit passes), that leaves $195 to recoup by one gate or the other. Tough to do.

This has been proposed as a "support division" all along, meaning the purse would be small and covered entirely (and then some, hopefully, for the promoter) by those directly connected to the teams. Anything over $200 per car seems extremely unlikely.

I will hold my opinion on this added class in Indiana.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Originally Posted by quicktime3:
This purse would mean an average of $315 per car if a full field is reached (which will surely be a stretch to start). The point of a "support division" is for car-affiliated income to out-weigh total payback. If the average car includes 4 people ($120 in pit passes), that leaves $195 to recoup by one gate or the other. Tough to do.

This has been proposed as a "support division" all along, meaning the purse would be small and covered entirely (and then some, hopefully, for the promoter) by those directly connected to the teams. Anything over $200 per car seems extremely unlikely.

I will hold my opinion on this added class in Indiana.

I would be alright with $200 to start maybe even $150. I think that should be the minimum in my opinion. Also I do not see getting involved if winner is paid around $300 to $350. I have seen them numbers mentioned in other posts.

An AVERAGE of $200 per car is more than what modifieds currently get & is probably on the high end for a support division.

If it is to be believed that some of these cars will come in the form of transitioned modified or sprint car racers, what is being gained? They will likely be paid more than a modified or a "B Main" sprint racer, so the track would be losing money on them.

Remember, these cars are now the headliner at certain places (like Eagle, where they replaced a winged 360 class). And as the headliner, they are still only paid $315 per car on a feature purse.

Im just posting from the perspective of being a driver or owner(Im neither) and saying what I think it would take, payout wise, for a person to want to start up a team to go racing in that class. As a driver it would be simple; does it pay enough and are there enough cars to run against. The math equations and all of that don't really do much for me, that seems more like a promoters business point of view, and all I can speak for is the drivers point of view, and I assumed that's what most people on here also try to do; speak for the drivers and try to make things change to benefit them and give owners incentive to field a car. I'm not going to talk down a potentially new class of race cars,just because I'm concerned that the racetrack may lose a little bit of money, they have their own group of people to make those decisions.

And I have no stake in this at all, Im just surprised people would be against bringing another class of sprinters to run, I assumed everyone would be gung ho, mainly because we are on a message board called Indiana Open Wheel.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Josh

Polls are deceptive, sometimes it is how the question is asked that cause responses to skew one way or the other. Sometimes one side is much more opinionated than the other. 305's should do well at Bloomington and with any luck a Saturday night track also. But expecting a purse larger than any other support track is not going to be in the cards. Why would Lawrenceburg run Mods with the sprint cars, the big reason is car count and fans in the stands. Those darned Mods are the 800 pound gorilla of support classes.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Payout from cotton bowl speedway Paige texas
http://www.cottonbowlspeedway.com/payout.pdf

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Anyone who disagrees with payout discussed please give your opinion on what payout should be . We need to have dialogue to see where everyone stands.

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K

Would the purse be coming out of your pocket? If so you should be the one to call the shots. Pay whatever you feel comfortable with.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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I think if I was a promoter I would try and find a way to increase pay across the board. I want to see the racing community grow and would make it my number one priority to assemble a reasonable purse for all classes.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

K

In a perfect world I agree with you. In the real world that we face everyday things look different, hold on to your exuberance as long as you can when you temper that with experience you will probably make a great racer or promoter.

Those promoters are so positive thinking that they can be standing in a pond of water on the front straight away with slickers on an an umbrella over their head and tell you on the phone that the weather looks great at the track and racing should go on as usual.;):)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

i have had non-wing sprintcars sold them because back problems bought mods (easier on back) not wallet regardless of what people think. Run for smaller purse, track promotors dont need to start another class just pay the classes you have more that brings in cars and dont put it all on the top thats why paragon draws 35-40 cars,now if you think iam going to sell mods off and buy a 305 sprintcar for 10,000 to 15,000 not going to happen might as well buy 410 same money.i know people complain about mods taking so long to run a race what do you think going to happen with a bunch of rookies in underpowered spintcars on a tacky track unless they are going to make it black slick which will then cause more problems with 410 complaining about that.and dont really have a problem with 305s just the way going about it, maybe someone from the speedway needs to step up and tell what the purse is going to be.that way everyone will know what they want to do in 2015 :deadhorse:

I was told they are paying 300 to 500 to win 100 to start

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Assuming he can get his modified stuff unloaded, Josh Webb is planning on putting one together for next year.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

That Cotton Bowl payout schedule looks reasonable to me for a startup class.

Bill May

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Originally Posted by KKinser99:
Anyone who disagrees with payout discussed please give your opinion on what payout should be . We need to have dialogue to see where everyone stands.

I think that using Eagle as your point of reference is a mistake. Eagle is an outlier. The promoter and the 360 guys could not get along. He brought in the Racesaver guys to replace the 360 guys. He is paying them more as a bridge between the two groups. Also, Racesaver Sprints are still the premiere class at Eagle.

Racesaver is not going to be the premiere class at Bloomington. Thus, they are not going to be paid like the premiere group. They are going to be paid like a support division. I would imagine that their purse is going to be the same or less than the modifieds.

As I posted in the original thread, when the series started back in the Dallas Fort Worth area 7-9 years ago, it paid well to start but not very good at all to win. It was not unheard of to pay $200 to start but only $300 to win. The idea was that everyone was going to make back the money they spent to get to the track, but no one was going to make money in the class. I have not been in DFW for several years, so I do no know if this is still the case.

I am sure that when the promoter decided to add this class they looked at it being a back gate/cost neutral class meaning that all of the purse was going to be paid for by the back gate. I really do not believe that they added this class thinking that it was going to do a lot to drive ticket sales at the front gate. If the front gate says the same, the money has to come from the back gate.

Finally, you need to look at the home page of the Racesaver web site. It is pretty clear what an ideal purse would be from the sanctioning body point of view.

Did you know that the average sprint car purse pays the winner 10 times the amount earned by the 24th place car? Races run under RACESAVER® plan pay the 24th starter at least 1/2 of the winner's purse. A typical purse would pay the winner between $150 to $300 and the 24th starter $100 to $150. No, that isn't a lot of money, but that is exactly the plan. Big money, brings big problems. You can be competitive for under $150 per night. Now you can race, pay the mortgage, and send the kids to school. RACESAVER® growth is very strong. We now have over 600 cars competing in RACESAVER® regions and tracks. The present and future of affordable racing is RACESAVER® . Join us and race better and more often, while spending far less money.


http://www.racesaver.com/

I here lot talk on this post from people don't have car trying to race it cost a lot I race because it a great sport I like to less cost maybe more people can do it If we like or not cost must come down

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Since this thread has been up 24 hr's I see the "yeas" have nudged out to a 4 point lead over the "nays". I anticipate some quasi-official info being offered here in the not to distant future which should answer some of the concerns of potential racers and could possibly, affect the poll results.

Bill May

I think its crazy drivers are on here saying the payout example is to high. Really? Shouldnt that be the goal? Lobby to have a good pay structure? I think Kerry used Eagle Raceways structure as an example because the 305 that was brought in for the demonstration last week was a weekly driver at Eagle. Its not a situation where people are suggsting that 305s should come in and get paid more than all other support classes. Its basically a statement saying that all classes should pay more, the regular weekly non wing class should pay 2k in my opinion, with the modifieds inheriting the current non wing structure, and Street stocks increasing the same way. Id like for one of the Bloomington Speedway officials to join in on this debate and hit us with some knowledge and official information, or at least share with everyone what kind of ideas they are throwing around.

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There are 31 yes votes so far. If half of them commit there is a field of cars. In my opinion Bloomington speedway should schedule a meeting whith drivers and owners. They can express their viewpoints about the program and a baseline can be established.

What is the age limit going to be for this class? Anyone know. Thanks

We still need another track in Indiana to step up and run this class. Wouldnt think many people would want to buy a car or engine to only race at one track. JMO

I would agree about other tracks running racesaver. There is a rumor about paragon running them. I have heard many rumors involving paragon the past few years. None have been true thus far. Another thing to consider based on outcome of this class is having a series traveling to various indiana tracks.

There is a regional promoters meeting coming up soon, I am certian the new Racesavers class at Bloomington is going to be a big part of the discusions.

It is a process, Bloomington will have a purse structure to announce soon, there people buying and building cars. I know of 2 Racesaver certified engines that have been purchased from Texas that are now in Indiana and a complete race ready car just purchased by a driver that is moving up to this class.

It is coming together. It is going to happen. It just takes time to get all the pieces to fit together.

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

I heard Paragon is running the outlaws in2015

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

After 2 days the poll indicates 38 viewers are interested in becoming involved with the 305 Racesaver sprints, that is encouraging info for track officials, I expect this number will continue to grow and accelerate when track officials make public a planned purse and race program.

Bill May

Re: Potential 2015 RACESAVER participants Poll
 

Originally Posted by old timer:
I heard Paragon is running the outlaws in2015

They have ran there before. mid to late 80's Dallas Kinser has talked about running there that night. I think he sai wolfgang won but not sure

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I remember seeing the Outlaws there about that time when Tim Gee won. Randy Kinser led much of the race but Gee passed him on the last lap. That could have been Randy's only WOO win. I heard him say later that he got a little anxious and spun the tires off the corner on that last lap.

Tim Gee won some races there but it wasn't the Woo race!