Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Well Kawasaki has introduced their new 1000cc Motorcycle, the NinjaH2R rated at 300+ horsepower.

I can see the comments now. Ban it and the BMW both. WELL Gang "Times They are a Changing". I can remember back to discussions about the very very expensive electronic injection that was going to make racing too expensive, then to the new and improved mechanical injection that was going to do the same thing. Before there were 1000cc motors all we had were the 1200cc Motors, they was expensive to race. Along came the 1000cc motors and changed all of that, racing got less expensive and most of the 1200cc motors were retired.

Manufactures don't wait on us racers to move they move in ways that they see growth. I can remember when Kawasaki introduced the ZX10R I couldn't wait to get my hands on one. Then I got it and I couldn't figure why they moved the generator to the top of the transmission and spun it a twice crankshaft speed, (Now I know Why).

Kawasaki has always lead the way in engine development, can you imagine that Yamaha, Honda, and Suzuki don't also have such projects on the drawing board. Ford Motor company recently introduced a Turbocharged 2.3 liter 4 cylinder motor that outperforms motors three time its size. Everybody is working on getting more out of less.

What do we do stick our heads in the sand and overlook these new developments or get with the program and race the things. Scroll down and play the videos.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2015-Ninja-H2R

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Go to a local motocross race and tell me how much technology and the 4 stroke motor has killed a mature MX.. Not the only reason but a big part of it.

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Racer

They sure took the wing ding out of MX. I can remember when the Essnor came out and what it was going to do to MX. Money took the private racer out of MX.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

The local yfz dealer told us they are about to announce something big as well.

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Andy

Like a "300 Horsepower Gorilla". This is what we have to look forward to. Paul Davis stripped his wheel splines out with a BMW That Kaw should twist the axle in two.:5: What we are seeing is continued development of the breed. What they are doing is getting more HP without the revs needed by our non pumpers and just might make them live longer.

With the short lifespan of our motors the fleet is going to head in this direction pretty quickly, and this will probably make us very competitive with our big brothers.

Times change and we should change with the times.

Like Tony Stewart said when he was running Indy cars, Yeh It's MMSA and their blankity blank "Pop Off Valves"

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

that's same engine w/turbo, right? rule is--NO TURBOS...Paul was using an 1.75 axle....should have a 2"...I think something might have got loose before it stripped splines.

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

"Built as a race-only bike, the H2R is said to produce a whooping 300hp max--straight off the showroom floor--with a supercharged 998cc, inline-4 cylinder."
C'mon, Dad; much ado about nothing...

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Jim

I'm looking for one. The only place it is legal to race right now is in a straight line. Wonder how high you can adjust that pop off valve??

The rest of the manufactures will follow.


Ron, have you read the MMSA's new rules as posted on their web site yet??


They went with straight supercharger so no lag to worry about. Whether We like it or not forced induction is what is in our future, just like 1000cc motors and electronic injection. We race what they give us or we race 10 year old worn out and expensive "JUNK".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Well looks like building a 305 sprint car is starting to look like a good idea. I personally Will not spend that kinda money on a lightning sprint (midget) whatever you wanna call them now days .when i can build a sprint car for the same price as lightning sprint are getting to be

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

• 998cc supercharged inline-four
• 296bhp / 115lbft (est)
• 200mph+ capability

If only they could make 100 more HP with out a supercharger or turbo...

Lets start a unlimited class where ANYTHING goes....... Cost is no object!

Only rules, go fast and turn left!

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

bobby

The 1000cc midgets will still be the cheapest and the fastest race car for the buck on the race track. I figure one of these motors will start out at about $6000.00 and drop quickly to $4000.00 or so pretty quickly. All we do is mount them in the car switch them over to Methanol and go racing. Knowing the Japanese I bet they are bullet proof also providing you don't mess with that pop off valve. In fact I think that should be the only rule placed on them.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Kawasaki is still making the zx10s in 2015, plus none of the mini sprint clubs have ever allowed supercharged engines. Although I don't think any of these ecotech/Montpelier groups say anything about it. It would be cool to get an H2R and play with the midgets :31:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Ricky

http://www.midwestminisprints.com/1469_001.pdf

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_b7...dlE/edit?pli=1


We got in such a hurry to do away with BMW's and Dry sumps that we forgot to put in the induction thing. But we got a rule that nulls and voids all the other rules so what the heck. Think if we could get a oil pump company to sign on as a sponsor we could get the dry sump thing to be legal?

Rickey

I went back and read the ILSS rules also. Looks like there will have to be changing going on>>> although I wish they would just wait and see what happens.

Change is not a bad thing, and is the thing that has made our race cars what they are today.

By the way AMSA and the old MMSA rules both included natural aspiration. Pretty good for old backward looking "FARTS" don't you think. Like electronic injection back in the 90's Air Pumps are going to have to be dealt with and will do nothing but improve the performance and desirability of our race cars.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Searching the web revelaed the street-going H2 version is expected to go for 20,000 Pounds Sterling, or $32429.00; where ya gonna pick one up for six grand? I doubt they'll build enough to fill the junkyards...

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Jim

All we need to buy is what we call the car kit, engine and parts to make it run. What does mass production do to cost? Forced induction is coming. Who would have thought that the big three would be putting electronic injection on all of their cars and now even the little bitty cars are switching to Turbo and Superchargers. Go figure. :);)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

....

If you dont have $50,000 you aren't getting one so dont get to crazy on this news.

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Looking on Ebay the new Gen ZX-10 and the BMW RR are still $3800 and there is only one each on there. Make them a kit your looking at $4500?? If you can find them.So looking at the new H2 motor if you can even find one in 3-4 years I would say $8-10K for a car kit.....

Bill while studying our rules you must have missed the most important one:

Spirit and Intent: Guidelines offered in this publication are subject to the term "Spirit and Intent" and apply to the technical aspects of lightning sprint racing as well as to the actions of drivers and crewmembers. In this book, “shall” is mandatory and “may” is permissive. It is expected that all participants will adhere to the “Spirit and Intent” of these rules. These are guidelines for fair and equitable competition. They are not the basis to "read between the lines" in order to circumvent the intent. Mid-America Lightning Sprints (hereinafter referred to as MALS) does not intend to become bogged down by internal litigation. If you are the type of person that is intent on finding loopholes, then it is imperative that you re-evaluate your association with MALS. The "Spirit and Intent" clause allows the Race Director to make timely decisions and resolve disputes.

Car count is up, pay is up,new racers are up, tracks that want lightning sprints are up...... Yep we were wrong you were right. What were we thinking.:15::15:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Mark

With a rule like that one who needs a seven page rule book in front of it. It seems it all boils down to go to Mark or Phil to get approved if we like you it's OK to run. If Not????

What happened to "naturally aspirated" Guess you cover that in that last rule, right. What happened to Oh My God we can't allow those "Engler Injection Units" (remember all of your posts on your web site) it will destroy us, How about our cockpit adjustable shocks that have been in our race cars since they were introduced in the 90's, what makes them any different from a wing slider or a brake proportioning valve (your Opinion is what). Your rules are based on racing as you guys see it. Using an ad-hock committee guided by "The In Crowd" is just why many race groups around us in Indiana have come on to hard times. The racers eventually see through the smoke and mirrors.

MMSA is doing pretty good with car count something to do with the region I guess >Your car count doesn't look too good yet probably also the region. MMSA had a much better car count 3 years ago something to do with the economy I guess.

Mark, what I would call it is "Back Room ********" and rule by the elite who know how to treat their subjects to achieve a desired result.

The motor deal was only a wake up call, Suzuki, Yamaha and even Honda probably have these project in their planing stages. Just like Electronic injection was in the 90's, Air Pumps will be the Buzz word in the near future of automotive development, and pumps will not add to the cost of racing like the electronic injectors were supposed to do in the 90's, or the BMW's were suppose to do in the present.

Part of the fun in racing is taking on a challenge and then finding the answers. That is what improves the breed, and some people really enjoy that aspect.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Seems to me the simple answer is to put a rule in the book, "No motors built after 20XX." Then when the new huffer motors start showing up on eBay in kit form for a reasonable price, change the year to let them into the game. Either that or simply open the motor rules up, and take the wings off the cars...

Bill

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Bill

I really like the idea of wingless Sportsman Midgets I think they may just take off.

Maybe we could relegate it to pre 2004 that was when the Horsepower wars started that we are the beneficiary of today. Also brought about because of Kawasaki.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Who isn't naturally aspirated?
Bill your doing that thing were you take a good turnout and try to make everyone look like a-holes...

Do you not think a guy with knobs in the car has a direct advantage over the guy who has the only tie down he owns on the LR.

> electric wing motor is $100
> adjustable shocks $1200

You have to remember you can't stop people from spending money you can only limit how much that money actually matters in what we are doing.

Every year a different manufacture will come out with something "new" or better and the rest will follow, the 2 year window in the rules allows for that..

Once feared engines:
Cross plane R1= Turd by standards
The first X plane R1 Allen bought was $3800.. Now they the same as all the other R1s..

BMW, we have witnessed this engine, not overly impressed, btw I have stripped magnesium wheel centers with a 600...


As far as a sportsman midget is concerned you can say sportsman midget as much as you want.... People will still call it a Minisprint.

The idea would never work because it opens too many doors for smart guys like you who should own a National midget or a sprint car.

How's the ford coming along?

Uh Dad...........You don't have to ask Phil anything for approval. As we have told you numerous times.....the "National Rules" that were agreed on involved members from five central United States Lightning Sprint groups. Not just Mark and I. This is about the 3rd or 4th time you have reminded me about the naturally aspirated clause in the rules. The rules update this winter will address that. Fortunately, you are the only one with an issue about this......everyone else knows the intent. I would imagine if you came rolling into a race with a turbo'd or force induction motor, I wouldn't be the only one pitchin' a hiss fit.

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Andy

MMSA is doing great. You guys have worked your butt's off and it shows. My big gripe is in rush for a national program you guys added a lot of stuff you shouldn't have and left a bunch of stuff you shouldn't have. The MMSA did not need a national rule book to be successful it was so on it's own right. The National group needed MMSA because of their success. When racing with the MMSA no one said anything about Engler Injection it was accepted. If that is your route to happiness so be it. No body said anything about suspension adjustments either, different approach to the same problem. Like someone once said "Just trying to be faster than you".

Now MALS people thought that mechanical injection was the worst thing since "Ebola" and crusaded to ban them from their organization. While taking up for mechanical injection on their web site Mark and I developed our relationship. You guys buy into the program and all of a sudden Tim is a sponsor and mechanical injection is a OK. If you guys want to put a $1200.00 mechanical injection on your car that is fine with me. I realize that you see it as a piece of Jewelery and it makes your "MINI SPRINT look more like a Midget which it is after all any how. The right rear shock on our car was on it when you guys started racing, it cost a whopping $700.00 back then which was a heck of a lot of money, but over the years it has been depreciated off of the books. That is a good investment in my books.

We do not need to be following their rules, they need to be following ours. Their 7 pages of rules is a far cry from the 1 page rule that you threw away to gain favor with them. How many MALS cars have attended any of our races? Is $700.00 to win going to encourage someone to travel 1500 miles to race.

Stay local do what is best for the local racers, Invite Focus, Kenyons, and Echo-tecs to race with us, find several tracks central to your membership>>>> go out and have fun.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

I do not own a mini sprint or a midget. I race sprint cars. However, I have a 12 year old son who loves racing and also have an 11 year old nephew who races 1/4 midgets. Both of which will eventually be driving something in the near future. You guys seem really passionate and also seem like you really want to grow your segment of open wheel racing. However, the way this class is being presented on IOW right now is not helping your cause or in anyway pursuading anyone to come join you. It sounds like from the outside that you guys have a bunch of rules, spend way too much money, and someone is always trying to cheat their way in to victory lane. Please don't bash me for this post. I just want you guys to sit back, think about what a prospective car owner/driver would think about these posts if he's considering jumping into your class. It screams, stay away from lightning sprints, or midgets, or mini sprints or whatever your calling them these days. I know from watching them that that is not the case. They put on a great show and look like a blast to drive. So maybe take a second and think about the perception of the posts. Just my opinion, not fact, not pointing fingers...just an outsiders view.

I think what we are doing is working just fine, and all though these National Rules have maybe kept a few from coming out, they are far outnumbered by new faces. As long as I'm helping with this deal I will be standing with the National partners.. MALS, ILSS in 2015, and everyone else that agreed to those rules.

One thing is for certain. Not everyone will always be happy.

You wouldn't be dissapointed. Just get a good chassis and a stock engine from Andy Bradley. Leave all this drama and pot stirring behind ya and go race. Best bang for your buck.

Jensen44........Really do appreciate your input and I can totally understand what you are saying. However.....Lightning Sprints/Minisprints are an excellent class. Please don't let the banter on this board persuade you otherwise. I have raced about every open wheel class there is over the years and can honestly this class is the most economical for the return of racing entertainment I have experienced. Every group I have been around has been friendly, competitive and simply fun to race with. Don't let a few complainers convince you otherwise.

So you understand what has happened here..........a group of us got together last winter from the various midwestern organizations to discuss simple rules to help contain costs and create closer competition. Basically get the motor costs under control. So far......it looks like it has helped tremendously. Competition couldn't be any better where these rules are applied. Costs have become even more realistic and affordable as compared to other classes. Speeds are up. Safety is paramount. Life is good. The rule book that seems to be the problem for some is quite simple. Is it perfect? Some evidently say no. It's a work in progress. A lot of it is the typical boiler plate stuff for procedures, safety. Actual technical stuff boils down to a some simple chassis and motor rules. All contrived to contain costs but not to sacrifice speed. The main thing.......5 groups basically agreed to the structure and decided to implement the basics with the agreement to discuss possible adjustments at a later date if need be. It's a group effort that seems to be working as hoped.

Trust me...........this class needed this. Costs were spiraling, motors were getting out of control and groups were going in different directions on certain rules and areas. The bottom line.......car counts are up and fun meter is pegging out. I think most will agree..........this year has been an improvement across the board thanks to the central region groups getting together and coming up with what we have to date.

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Jensen

You have several paths after 1/4 midgets or just starting out. Go Karts not cheap as some believe, and dangerous in my opinion, Sidewinders (over sized go karts with roll bars, and Mini Sprints>Lightning Sprints>and here I will change the name again Sportsman Midgets. Mini Sprints are changing>> new blood and management has taken over. We have been racing these things for about 20 something years now and still thoroughly enjoy it. In the pits I am quite as a church mouse, but When things don't strike me quite right I have been know to vent my spleen here on the IOW.

Our group the MMSA has always raced in a small geographic section of Indiana and Ohio. Our new leadership has branched out to a larger area and adopted a new set of National rules. Needless to say I am the only unhappy camper or at least the only one that sometimes speaks up. I try to keep positive but sometime interlopers chime in and I kind of go off.

Several years ago I got off on a deal about how much I appreciated competition not only in racing but life in general, that is what keeps us at the top of our game and makes things better.

Our cars have always been inexpensive and very fast, the reason is instead of putting thousands of dollars into our engines when one let go we go to a salvage yard and buy one that is newer and faster. Thank you Bike Makers!!!! Now all of a sudden people get into the sport and see nothing but doom and gloom with the introduction of a new motor technology. They want to spend thousands of dollars keeping the old motors running much like the T/Q's have done for many years now.

What I have tried to express is a dissatisfaction in a bunch of what I consider to be un needed and over specific rules and the fear of the progression of technology in future engine designs along with the use of ******** to make these rules.

Beleave it or not we do get along pretty good at the race track, like in a good marriage we leave all of this discussion at home in the recliner.

Andy: I am still working on my "Car Builder-Engine Man" on the Lincoln Motor deal> wish me luck.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

DAD, lets make a deal, you say nothing more about TQ's, and I'll never say another word about whatever it is you're talking about. Deal? Bob

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Bob

One might consider you to to be thinking out of the box a tad also when it comes to TQ's. My point is change is going to happen and to let one self get caught in the past is not a good thing.

Now Ford is working on a little 4 cylinder motor that will Spank the 6 cylinder one before I can get it in a car, "Times they are a changing". As technology and machine operations improve things that were once very expensive to produce, Electronic fuel injection components, Turbo Chargers and 4 Valve heads are now becoming common place and relativity in expensive.

Great for racers if they take advantage of what is out there. I think I will draw the line at an electric Motor and Battery, or should I have said "Dynamo".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

DAD, I bin thinking outa th box since I was 8 or 9 yrs old, and not doing anything that isn't in our little thin , 3page rule book, like I said before, KISS, and that's what we got, and if folks want to spend big bucks, let em, just make sure they follow the inside of the box! BTW, I was offered the chance to put a "GREEN" motor in my car, in fact, the engineers from the factory had already measured the space available, and all, but then they dropped the "project", that was about 7-8 yrs ago. Bob

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

Bob

It all boils down to "Green Motors" They are all the time trying to outproduce their competition and making "Internal combustion Engines" that are new and different and fast. Then all of a sudden it gets all out of hand and I am saying disparaging things about TQ's. I apologize, there by but for the grace of God I might have been racing one of them and I hope having fun.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

I woulda liked to tried the electric motor, cause I like experimenting, and when it doesn't cost me anything, I like it even better, I never had that much trouble with the old Honda's, yeah, I built a grenade one time, all legal, just light parts, and an awesome cam, but we over revved it one night, and I figured it was wounded, but what th hey, I only had my time in it, all the parts were someone else's throw aways, so we went ahead a ran it, almost finished the season before the wounded rod let go, still sold all the parts for more than enough to put together the 600 Yamaha, that ran trouble free for at least 6 seasons! Bob

Can I call all 3 Timeouts at once??

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

cb

Time out!!!!!

Great things are on the horizon for both Motorcycles and Motorcycle engine powered race cars.

I hate to think however that someday we will be racing an over sizes RC car without the RC,

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

K

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

H&k

Turn down for what!!

Re: Kawasaki's New H2 1000cc Bike
 

CB

K didn't mean nothing to me so>>>I went to internet slang.com>>>I don't use this stuff >>>>in some ways I'm kinda backwards >>>so I said that don't make sense to me but what the heck>>>> I don't even use Facebook or text, IOW is as far as I go and that is probably a good thing.

Honest Dad himself:6::6: