secondary bypass
 

i have a hilborn brass bypass that stuck open on me last weekend. It has 3 races on it since it was brand new. What would cause it to stick, or is it just the nature of these cheaper bypasses?

Re: secondary bypass
 

248-3621145

Biggest thing is making sure that your fuel sytem is exceptionally clean it doesn't take much to stick a by a bypass open.

Re: secondary bypass
 

I wouldn't class it as "one of the cheaper" bypasses, if it is cleaned properly, and not allowed to sit for long periods of time with alcohol in it, it should be as reliable as any, the aluminum ones are the ones that give the most trouble. Good money spent on an alcohol hydrometer, so you can ck the water content of your fuel, and the use of a good alcohol upper lube, like Klotz Uplon. I'd venture a guess at one of the other, either no upper lube, or bad fuel. What was this being used on? Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

ascs car, I rarely use upper lube, guess i'll have to pick some up to put in the new barrel I have. One thing I noticed when I pulled the secondary out the fuel came out with a yellow tint to it.. When I pulled the main apart it was clean and clear.

This car is new to me. switched from modifieds to sprints, and got this car turn key. We pulled the tank and washed it out, flushed all the lines, std stainless steel filter before the pump and a waterman filter before the barrel valve. The fuel line for the secondary is all brand new, the car did not come plumbed with a secondary so I added it. I wouldn't think the fuel line would be causing it to turn yellow?

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Black-...6-AN,8976.html This is what I used, says its compatible with alcohol.

Re: secondary bypass
 

First off, I'd get a couple of quarts of Klotz Uplon, 1 qt will do a barrel of fuel. The condition of the fuel in the secondary tells me a couple things, hi water content fuel, or, since you've ran it 3 times, and the fuel in it has that color to it, it either isn't working, or it's set too hi. I don't run a secondary, and I know a lot of folks who don't, you'd be surprised by all the changes that are made to a Hilborn, and it work properly, like running the hi-speed off the barrel valve, instead of the secondary, which for all intents and purposes is what I'm doing, I know some who only run the primary, with the pill in it, some of this depends on which pump you have, and how well you understand how things work. I've found that a call to Hilborn once in a while, helps, they know about everything that has been tried, and so far, they've been a big help to me. Good luck, and don't be afraid to ask, get your fuel ck'd, and get some Uplon.BTW, evidently the previous owner wasn't running a secondary, idle bypass I call it, either, you can set the idle fuel off the barrel valve, they have the "how too" on their website, works pretty good, at least it stops the lag you sometimes get, running a sec that isn't set right, or only partially working. Bob

You could have had a piece of debris from cutting and making the new line that stuck it

Re: secondary bypass
 

i've got engler injectors, and I've been on the phone with Tim quite a bit. Everything is set where Tim told me. I'm thinking it must have been some debris that stuck it open. The pump was sent back to waterman and rebuilt after I got the car, and I put a new diaphragm in the highspeed. Fuel system components are 100%.

I didn't have the pre barrel valve filter installed and plugged the nozzles up with trash, that's when we pulled the complete system apart and flushed everything and installed the waterman filter. That was all before the first race. Havent had any issues since, until this past weekends 2 day show. I've got a couple weeks before the next race so I'm going back through all of it.

I was just checking to see if there should be normal maintenance taken on the secondary or any of the other components weekly, other than flushing the fuel out of it if its going to sit for a few weeks.

Many engine builders don't recommend running top lube in high compression Sprint Car engines! You need the fuel as hot as it can get and as pure! As far as the secondary, get rid of the Hilborn poppet type and use a Kinsler diaphram type like you would for your Hi-Speed. We use the regular Kinsler on the secondary and an IRL on the Hi Speed with good methanol and no top lube and have zero problems!

After you make new fuel lines its always a good idea to blow the lines out before putting them on the car.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Are you flushing your tank and lines out with gasoline, by chance? That will eat up and destroy most alcohol bladders. I believe that is starting to change now as they are making them for E85 and other blends, but I wouldn't chance it.

Re: secondary bypass
 

no I just flushed with the garden hose and let it air dry.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Think on this a while, alcohol is about as dry as anything you can put in your engine, therefore it tends to eat rings, makes them wear faster, as well as the bores, I've used about all the upper lubes on the market, and Klotz Uplon gives me the best results, very little to no ring wear, no need to flush before you leave the track, it lubes the valve stems, and it also helps seal the rings, giving a more constant compression while the engine is working, and the small amount used will not reduce the burn rate of the alcohol, in most cases, it will increase it, me, I'm gonna continue using it, as I have ever since it was introduced, back in the 70's, it also lubes the fuel pump, which makes it last longer, I just fail to see what a little lubricant can hurt a highly stressed engine, and related parts, fittings and etc. Do this, don't buy any, just read the information on the bottle, and make your own decisions! Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

Check your rules. If you are running ASCS, additives are not allowed.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Update.....
raced again Saturday night. Had the barrel valve set to 18%, HS set to 72psi w/76 pill, 72 main jet, secondary set to 40psi.

ran 6 laps in hotlaps, came in motor temp was 170, tach showed 7700rpm and the motor felt like it was a dog.

Changed from a 6.18 gear to 6.54 gear, leaned the HS out to 70psi. Heat race time track was still tacky pretty much running WFO for 6 laps. Motor still felt like a dog, water temp showed 190* tach showed 7800. It did have a hesitation on the start.

This is where I'm lost. changing to a lower gear that much should have made some kind of difference in RPMs.

For the Feature, I blocked off the secondary and unhooked the tach. No change in how it ran. Water temp after 15 green flag laps was 180*

I'm thinking the barrel valve is a little lean causing the hesitation/vibration on the starts, but there has to be something else going on, with either the motor, injection, or ignition. Everyone watching says my motor sounds doggy compared to everyone else also.

Also, this was a used motor when I got it. I've got the specs and etc with it, but its pretty much like any used motor, you just have to trust the guy your buying it from.

Couple of things, timing and leakdown. How is your oil looking? How is your inj plumbed, 2 return lines, or none, all just circulating under the hood? With out the secondary you may have to trail brake on starts, or restarts. Barrel valve sounds a bit hi. Was that set with the shutters sitting on .002 shim stock, I guess that is more than a couple. Another thing, with the engine running, look in the tank, if you have at least 2 lines running back, you should have fuel running out of only one, the main bypass, any other fuel returning means a bypass either stuck or leaking. Bob

Run a leak down test on the engine itself. Also check the percentage on the barrel valve with a leak down tester. Yu may need to lean on it some

engler injectors set at .002. Tim told me to set the barrel valve between 18-20%. I'm at 18%. Waterman ultra light pump that is fresh from rebuild by Waterman. Feed line goes to shut off valve then on to top side of barrel valve. Secondary, main and high speed all feed into 3 into 1 block with 1 #8 line going into tank. I'll do a leak down on the motor this week, it only had 12 shows on it since new when I got it.

Main should be by itself, with the pill holder as near the tank as possible, hi speed should be by itself also, but the secondary can be installed in the same return line, behind it. Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

this is what i've got. http://www.brmotorsports.com/injecto...nmanifold.aspx

The block is mounted on the upright bar beside the seat. Main, high speed secondary are all right beside the seat.

This was the way the car came when i picked it up.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Your're running the exact setup we are with the 3 into 1 and about the same settings, our high speed is lower. I would look at timing, we had our mag move and it sounds like the same issues we had

Re: secondary bypass
 

A quick question, did you say your main feed line goes to the shut off valve, then thru the pump? I hope not, good way to destroy a fuel pump, should go thru the pump, then the line from the pump to the barrel valve should contain the shut off, either on the pump, or on the barrel valve, also, the hi-speed sounds really high, I might suggest something closer to 48-56 psi. The thing about hooking all the lines together that bothers me is, one, the fuel doesn't get to de-arieate, it doesn't get cooled by going back to the tank, and if you have a problem like you're having, it's easy to ck, just by looking in the tank. One thing at a time, but it would be easy and quick to ck the timing, make sure it's right, also, if you are using a timing light, make sure it's real bright, you magnets may be getting weak, and in need of re-zapping. Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

yes, the shutoff valve is between the pump and barrel valve. The high speed set @ 70psi is what Tim Engler told me to set it at, I gave him all my pump flow numbers and he set me up where I should be at on the main and HS.

i'll be firing it up this evening to double check the timing. I set it when I first fired the motor, before I ever took it to the track and haven't checked it since.

Are you saying if the timing light isn't super bright, then the magneto could be getting weak or weak magnets in the timing light?

Re: secondary bypass
 

I believe he is saying if your motor is in time that your magnets in your magneto could be getting weak, and not getting a good strong spark.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Yes, the magnets in the magneto. Did you say secondary, and mean h-speed at 70psi? I would think more like 24-30 would be high, for the secondary, unless you're running some kinda awesome pump, like with 3/4 in rotors in it. Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

His High Speed is at 70lbs with a 76 pill ( which seems high) and his low speed ( secondary ) is set at 40lbs. Do you have a pill in the low speed or not?

Re: secondary bypass
 

I went back and fixed it. Highspeed set to 70psi, secondary set to 40psi.


any other home brew ways of testing a mag?

Re: secondary bypass
 

If you could get a good picture of one of your plugs and post it, I'll bet someone here could tell you allot just from that. There are some knowledgeable folks on here.

Or better yet pack up your fuel system and send it to Mark Burch Motorsports to have it flowed. I think it is like $125.00 to flow your complete fuel system.

http://www.markburchmotorsports.com/parts/topics2.asp

Re: secondary bypass
 

ran a leak down test last night, all cylinders were around 5%. checking timing, it was 36* where I set it originally.

Right now I'm leaning towards a weak mag. I've got the older style MSD Pro Mag. I talked with BR Motorsports and told them my issues and he believes its probably an ignition issue.

I've got a buddy who's bringing over his msd mag and box tonight to stab in so I can get mine sent in for rebuild.

Fingers crossed this is it :6:

Re: secondary bypass
 

You should give Daryl Saucier at DSR Fuel Systems a call 317-490-3410. I am sure he can help you with all your settings and get you going in the right direction.

We had similar issues earlier this season. Our timing was off along with a worn mag. Got mag fixed and timed correctly and the issue was gone.

check filter at the end of inlet hose may be stop up

Re: secondary bypass
 

New pro mag/coil setup installed last night. I'll report back Monday if this fixes the issues.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Just for my info, could you tell/was there a difference in the brightness of the timing light? There is a huge difference in a couple of ignitions I have, brighter light, more advance, and add more fuel=more Hp. Bob

A msd timing light has a brighter light than one of those flaming river timing lights.

Re: secondary bypass
 

I have neither, I was just trying to get a fix on the brightness of the same light, used on different ignitions, to be able to tell when the ignition might be getting weak, in other words, using the same light, on a new, vs an older ign, did the light brightness change, the difference in mine was huge, the new ignition also had a longer soak, it was with 2 rotors, one a 120*, and one a 180*, compared to a 90*, same coil used on both! Thanks! Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

new ignition fixed all my issues. Motor ran great all night, 8 lap heat race, took the checker flag @ 210 degrees. 15 lap A feature green to checker @ 210*.

No I couldn't tell any difference in brightness between my "bad" ignition and the borrowed "good" one. I'm using a cheap o'reilly auto parts timing light hooked up to a motorcycle battery out of my 4 wheeler.

Re: secondary bypass
 

Well good, at least someone had some luck this weekend, glad to hear you fixed it, temps are a bit more in line now too, right in the real good range! Thanks for the results! Bob

Re: secondary bypass
 

Yes sir, thanks for the assistance. Now its all up to me to relearn how to drive these cars. Been 8 years since I've raced sprints, won the track championship that year and then switched back to modifieds.

Dry track Saturday night, I over heated the brakes and exploded the inboard cast iron rotor. It lasted 12 of 15 laps. Ooops. I'll have video up sometime tonight. It was quite the spark show lol.