Big money races and low car counts
 

Went to Tri State and saw one of the best sprint races I've seen in years. What I don't understand is how everyone complains about purses at sprint car races. Tri State paid $5000 to win, which is very good around these parts, with a car count in the low 20's.

Then someone will say it didn't pay enough to start , I need more it's a long drive. Well if you're wondering about start money, you've already lost. You go to win, not to start. Yes , I realize not everyone wins, but if you don't think you can, you never will.

You get tired about people complaining about the purses, when it's up to those who race to support the big money shows. It doesn't make sense to have them if the competitors aren't going to support them. Show the promoters you'll support, and it will encourage them to have more of them. If you don't show up it doesn't help at all.

Location and start money is very important to many racers.... Not all of us have the funds or equipment to win therefor making the money to win obsolete.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

differences between a photog and a racer.they see the world thru a lens plus pay no admission.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

The reason I quit this board is the people that get personal. Do you know Chris? Do you know anything about him? If you have something negative to say to him then walk up to him at a race, he goes to more that any on this site ( be very careful how you address him, you might get more than you can handle).

Let us re-word Chris's post...If a promoter puts up big money and only gets the same local cars then why not just put up $1400 to win and have the same show....If the owners do not support the big shows, why have them?

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

18 or 48 it doesn't matter, Tri State races produce epic results on a regular basis. As racing junkies we always for long for a greater car count. I think last night was a result of too many races spreading the car count too thin.(Belleville, LPS, The Burg,Jack Hewitt Classic) all drew away at least one car that would have been there last night. A better question is did you leave happy about your racing experience last night? and even more importantly when will you be back!

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

Last night their were 3 races with larger than normal purses and one with its regular purse. Its obvious that not all of them were going to get a huge car count. Distance I think had something to do with that too when you are talking about TSS. As far a quality goes TSS probably had more than the others but those that didnt feel they had the equipment to win probably went to the track they thought they could do the best at. You all may think I'm full of it but thats just my .02 cents. People have complained about low car counts at big $ shows since Bill created this board its no different now than it was then. Guys are going to go where their budget and their perception of where they can do well leads them. Besides car count has no bearing on the quality of the race, last night proves that point. One of the best races I have ever seen at Kokomo started 14 cars.....but 9 of them were top flight contenders to win. Its the quality not the quantity that makes a great race.

Haubstadt needed NO more cars last night.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I understand both sides of this argument. What gets me is when an event pays a lot to win, and a lot to start, and the car count still isn't that great. I think Racefan 20 nailed it. It is perception, and guys can race or not race when and where they want, or don't want.

Just face the facts, people will always complain about something, no matter what. I think the example of this past week needs to sink in more.....life is precious and way too short.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

There are a lot of Saturday night tracks..I have never been to Haubstadt but plan on going next year. I think distance has a lot to do with it. When Bloomington ran the Sheldon Kinser race they had 22 or something sprints and gas city got 27 that night..it used to be bigger money and a crap ton of cars showing up..its just not like that anymore..but at least cars were racing last night the field had 41, the burg mid 30s, pville 27 thats a good amount of cars running. But reading through updates it seemed like the best race was at Haubstadt. The time have sure changed.

Tyler

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

First of all, Bill I think that's it pretty funny you saying you quit because of people making posts that are personal.:3:

To your point, Chris, I think there are a lot of things that factor into that. A couple of years ago, I was having a conversation with Tom Helfrich and one of the things that was a concern to him was the was some of the technology in the sport today and how a lot of these guys who do this for fun just don't have a chance against some of the top tier of teams. With $5000 on the line, I think quite a few of the guys who could make up the bulk of the field end to going where they think they have a better chance to compete. The same applies with motor differences. Also, this race has always had it's challenges because traditionally, it's run on a very busy weekend. They always have it on the same night as the Bellville Midget Nationals main event. That eliminates the possibility of getting a few more top flite contenders. And this year, it went up against Waynesfield paying $3000 (which is a lot closer for drivers living in the North part of the state), The Burg holding a special race and Putnamville running it's regular show, which usually draws a healthy car count. And gas prices aren't helping matters any.

With equipment and technology differences between the haves and the have nots, the cows are already out of the barn on that issue, so there's no real answer to that. And this time of year the tracks are trying to get the last of their big events in before the season winds down, so the scheduling part will always be a challenge, too. I just hope that the fans continue to come out to support events like this, so they can keep putting them on, because we saw several racers race like they were racing for the last $5000 on earth last night.

Jerry

Couldn't get out last night, so getting my fix checking results of the three races I considered going to, being LBurg, TSS, or Waynesfield, and in thinking about the post on car counts, it occurred to me that if you look at the results from all three, each had some pretty heavy hitters, and a pretty strong field that should have produced some pretty good racing. Especially if you factor in Belleville and LPS also. How fortunate we all are, to be able to choose any one of these great venues, on a Sat. Evening.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I agree bring in 6or7 cars and let's race.

I think, as fans of the sport, the best thing to do to keep it thriving, is to call a freind, or bring a neighbor to the races with us, to introduce new blood to the sport.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I was at TSS last nite and what I learned $5000 to win attracts is not necessarily the high dollar teams, because I don't think Clayton, Cummins, Ballou, and a few others are high dollar, but it drawls the bad @$$ boyz that can flat @$$ wheel a sprint car, with unbelievable pride and they weren't going to be caught cherry picking with $5000 on the line. We fans have to support the promoters that put it on the line, because low car count or not, you're about to get your moneys worth. To all the drivers that showed up, thanks for a GREAT show :6:

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

Lets see, Too many reasons to get em all.

1 is the track itself which will suprise many but its true and many compliment it on its preperation.

OK, So every-time you hit the track its flatfooted 10,000rpm racing. Not just hotlaps and the first few heats. Even the average well prepped track slows throughout the night where max RPM's are not the norm.

2. Location and time zone.
3 85% or more of indianas sprint racing are people with decent motors probably 750-800 horsepower 7-25 grand motors depending on how old, number of rebuilds, how fresh etc. They are solid against the other 85%
Which leads to
4. Big money, Bigger teams, With the 35-55 grand motors 800-920 hp motors that also just happen to have a big torque advantage on heavy tracks. Some of these teams often won't bring the car out for less than 3 grand So if a track puts up $$$ and they're running, smaller teams know where they'll be.

5. Support your local track, Often towing a couple hundred miles NEGATES any gains in the purse and well, Teams know where the better financed teams will be. The goal is winning, your chances are greatly improved running at home or away from where the top teams and drivers will be.

6. High paying shows also tend to draw much better say March-April and Sept-Oct. when fewer tracks are running.

7. Sprintweek has become more of a spectical, A doable racing vacation for teams to see how good they can match up, finish or do against the top teams and a local hot shoe does have a chance.

8. Two races had a racing to honor meaning behind it Hewitt and Soudrette. LPS had Paragon off which helped. Hoosier Sprint Nationals? Sounds like something that should be held Nov 1st Nothing else racing and FOR ALL THE MARBLES

9. Who wasn't there that could have won? Half a dozen, A dozen? Some at Bellville, some at 360 nationals. A handful at LBurg or Waynesfield.

10. Sounds like you still got a heck of a show. Last time I visited they had 15 cars, The time before was 40 cars. I think timing in some cases can be EVERYTHING as far as car counts.

11 Haubstadt looked to have a great crowd seeing vid of the parade lap and 20+ heavy hitters. I call that a Success!

I may be wrong on a couple of these points, Certainly not all.
Edit.
I seen complaints and whining for over a month right up until race time. Why did Burg schedule against Waynesfield, Why did Haubstadt schedule against Burg. Car counts will be thin, Im staying home.

From the person who was home not by choice. I'd of probably picked the local to visit and would have been happy 15 or 50. SITTING HOME SUCKS!
Chuck

Chuck, very interesting and we'll thought out post. Especially point #5, because if gas prices, worry about car count issues at other tracks, whatever has you in a tizzy about which event to attend, you can never go wrong going to your local.

For me the three major factors are:

1.) Location and funds - I'm going to use Spencer as an example. If you live in Kokomo is it really worth it to haul to TSS for a race? You not only have to pay for your equipment, entry fees, etc but you have to pay for your fuel just to get there and back and that's quite a haul.

2.) Number of tracks running which directly correlates to point 3.) which is quality of competition. If there is a big money show at TSS or the Burg and I'm a low budget team I've probably got a better chance to run well at Putnamville than I do against the Dave Darlands or Bryan Clausons of the world who obviously have better equipment. I'd rather run for a $1200 winners share than a 4000-5000 share that I know I have no chance of winning.

Chuck,
As a racer I can tell you the ONLY two things that factor in to where and when I race.

1. DISTANCE. If it costs me over 100 in gas to get to and from a track, I'm not racing. It's a hobby for me, not my life. It already costs enough to do this and I'm not a world of outlaws driver.

2. Weather. This goes hand in hand with the first one. Forecast shows 60% or more...chances are I'm not taking the chance. Again this has to do with cost to get TO and FROM the track. I never blame promoters for canceling based on a forecast. If I ran a track, I'd do the same thing. How many fans end up not going if they think it will rain out? Probably more than you think.

Chris is a awesome guy, he has been around racing enough to know. I know of a couple cars that are trying to rebuild after Sprintweek. So I can imagine their are several others. Racing is not a cheap sport. As a fan a photographer or racer. Even if it payed 100,000 some simply can't make it. From a fan standpoint Cummins and Clayton are worth the price of admission alone at that joint.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I like the input on this thread. It's great to get different opinions other than your own. The different perspectives provide a lot of good insight. You can learn a lot that way.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

When you add up the cost of the ticket plus the cost of the photographic equipment I can assure you Chris is not getting in for free.

Classy post of the year. Oh well, most of us got the gist of the point being made.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I think all is well. Probably 70% of the fans don't notice or care if there are 15 cars or 50.
Another 28% will believe they are seeing the greatest race ever regardless of car count on any given night.
The other 2% probably don't know if they are at a rodeo or race, but they end up sitting by me.

This time of year is tough to draw all the top drivers with so many big events. Not many states could support so many tracks as Indiana does, it's impressive.

Actually this race paid pretty well throughout the entire field and we wanted to go, but didn't know for sure on help, etc. I hope to run the Sept. race down there again. Great Track! You would most likely see a bigger car count at 3000 to Win and 300 or 400 to start. That's why "The Burg" and Waynesfield did better on car count. Putnamville did well because it is much closer for many and Paragon was off too. Travel expense is a lot more than it was 10 or 15 years ago. Haubstadt still had a full field and the fans saw some great racing! Nothing wrong with that! You don't need 35 or 40 cars to make a great show!

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I added it up and there was 127 NW sprints running last night at four tracks and the lowest had a full field. That in fact is pretty darn good for august and considering a few were at Bellville and Knoxville 360 nats.

August is often a rough time of year, Motors dying, some teams are on their third or fourth chassis or fixes and the money to race is kaput.

Like I posted earlier, That show I visited tri state with fifteen cars. If there woudn't have been two track reworks, It would have been done in a hour flat as the mods had about the same count. As it was it took two hours 15 minutes.

I was happy, Wasn't dejected but thought there'd be more. And no, im not complaining on the tractor show, It was what it was and good friends 200 miles from home made it well worth it.

There was a few tracks putting up money Saturday so makes since on a lower car count!! Waynesfield had the jack hewitt classic and I believe pulled in 41 sprints!! Now I don't know how many Indiana guys went but of course you had grant that won in the Hery owned car (piqua oh) and t mez I believe. When you have tracks putting up that much money it's obvious cars will be spread out. I think it's awesome to see how many each track had. The sport is alive and well!!

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I just wish I were racing.

71 cars at knoxville tonight for 5k to win. Maybe you guys should convert to winged sprint cars, haha

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

Not from what I've seen for average winged shows outside PA. Many tracks are lucky to get 12-15

Atomic, Fremont, etc. do better than that!

We have never taken "big money to win" into consideration when deciding where to run. Only one driver can win, the likelihood is you are going to spend much more to race than you are going to win on any given night.......and that deficit is only going to get higher if you start traveling a couple of hours because a track has a "big money" race.

Most of us are recreational racers. We just hope to enjoy the evening and be able to push the car back into the trailer. If we were doing this for the money we would have quit long ago.

This past Saturday at Lawrenceburg we had a pretty mediocre night on the track.......didn't run real well but made the show. The BOSS payout was $300 which pretty much covered our expenses for the evening. The car and my driver were all in one piece when the racing was over.....that's pretty much what I'm shooting for.

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

REALLY !!!! Please stop it !! In CA this last Sat. night there was a King of the West Sprint Car race in Stockton (3K to win) and BCRA Midgets and 360 Sprint Cars (Maybe 1K to win) at Placerville Speedway. Outside of "maybe" one or two local tracks running, that was pretty much it for the State of California racing this last weekend. That is an area that would take up a good portion of the Mid-West…

PLEASE FELLA's for the sake of your racing, don't complain, support support support and be glad you actually have racing to watch ….Very Very Good Racing Too….

Re: Big money races and low car counts
 

I've been telling the people back here in Indiana the same thing for a few years now .