Rain Out Procedures
 

What happened with the money part of the USAC show last night? I wasn't there and don't know, so I'm asking. There has been a bit of "activity" at tracks recently regarding refunds/payouts and I am just curious.

It seems the tracks are wanting to keep all of the racers' (traveling series) money and all of the fans' money anytime they can. I've seen where they didn't run features, so they weren't going to payout, but ran a couple heats, so they called it a complete show and weren't going to give refunds either. We were at a "track" where there were no races at all, and they tried to keep all of everyone's money. Only once the racers basically promised to burn the place down, did they decide to refund pit passes. Saturday night, they said they were going to make us sign something stating we knew we weren't going to get our money back if it rained (very strong chance of rain). The group of people standing there not signing in eventually got them to change their minds.

So what in the world is it with track people that think they have the right to keep the racers and fans monies, but not pay anyone. Is that practice everywhere? Why would we put up with that? Isn't that kind of like having your cake and eating it too? Maybe some tracks do need to be burned down.

Gas City used to give pit pass money back on rain outs. Jiggs had a hand full of $20s and came right to your trailer asking if you wanted cash or save it for later.

I think giving options is something that could resolve a lot of the problem. If race teams and fans can return for a make up or another show (of equal value) then they should be able to keep tickets/wristbands for use at another show. If they can't return, they should have the option to return their ticket/wristband for a full refund. Racer and fan friendly policies usually result in repeat customers and good PR for the track.

Re: Rain Out Procedures
 

Many of the tracks have the procedures listed on their website, usually somewhere in the rules section.

Depending on who the insurance company is normally once a car fires and comes out onto the track the paid dues to insurance arnt carried over. Next is having correct change to give people money back. Most tracks have it posted no cash refunds. For those that can't say come back to Lawrenceburg after last night save there band come back for 2015 sprint week. As far a payouts I'm sure tracks pay USAC before the show cause USAC pays the drivers. It's a no win for everybody involved

Rain Out Procedures
 

Usac doesn't pay drivers the night of the show they mail them checks later

That's why I said tracks pay USAC and USAC pays drivers.

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Sounds like a lot of interest for some one after holding that money for a year --- wonder who ---
take this any way you see fit

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No one's making anything off of interest on money sitting in a bank account these days.

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IMS makes a ton of interest money on ticket sales. If you want to renew your seats for next year, you have to pay for them within 2 weeks of this year's race. 50 weeks of free interest.
steiny
:32:

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Why do fans care about racing business that has nothing to do with them?

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If memory serves me correctly, two years ago LPS was rained out on Thursday night of ISW and rescheduled for Sunday night. The bashing of Joe Spiker and LPS was pretty intense and many fans thought they called it too soon and/or were upset that the makeup date was Sunday and they couldn't make it back for the race. Those are the only folks that lost money?

Last year Tri State was rained out of ISW and the track with the million dollar John Deere equipment was bashed because they couldn't get the track race ready and didn't have a make up date. Tom Helfrich was the bum on that occasion. Imagine that he couldn't pull off a miracle just so the fans wouldn't be inconvienced. Who lost money on that night?

Moving forward to this year, Dave Rudisell is taking the heat. It could also happen to any other track for that matter. Simply put, the promoter just can't win no matter what happens.

Fact #1-Indiana hosts a lot of racing events at many, many tracks around the state. Most of the rain check policies are similar and the vast majority are NO CASH REFUNDS. Tickets/wristbands are good for a certain length of time. If you don't know that by this time, you certainly don't go the races very often.

Fact #2-Indiana has some rather diverse weather and it does occasionally rain here. Much to the disappointment of the car owners, drivers, promoters and fans, rain sometimes happens on race night. As fans we can sometimes lose money due to the rain check policy. HOWEVER, last I checked, no where in life are we gauranteed that everything will be fair. Sometimes we will lose out on a night of racing and not be able to make it back for the makeup. Let the pity party begin.

Fact #3-No matter what you think, you have no idea what it takes to promote a speedway and the time and effort it takes to plan and execute a "big" show like ISW. With that being said, rain isn't a friend of the promoter and he doesn't reap a huge reward from a cancellation. They lose money that can never be regained. They have a business plan that only they can know if and how they can work to reschedule an event. One thing to add that I haven't seen so far is that it was still raining this morning when we left Lawrenceburg. Rudy didn't have the opportunity to "seal" the track last night and right now it is raining there with more on the way. How would that reschedule look now?

Solution for fans. As a fan you have a couple of options. Option #1-Look at the weather reports and make the best call you can that fits your budget and needs. If you can't afford to chance a rainout and/or don't think you can make a reschedule; you need to stay at home and whine to all who will listen to you there. Fair weather fans don't see a lot of shows in Indiana. Remember, it does rain in Indiana.

Option #2-Look at the weather forecasts and make the call that no matter what, I am going to be at the race track. If this is your choice, don't complain about losing the opportunity to see a race. You will be rained out at some point in time. And you aren't the only one losing money. Remember, no one makes money on a cancellation. However, you will see a whole lot more racing than taking option #1. How many times have we seen a great racing program to get in our cars and the rain is starting? Lucky?????????

To all the fans who think they have the best answers on promoting a race track, here is Option #3. Paragon and Gas City are both for sale. Baer Field in Fort Wayne just closed. So this is the ideal time to jump right in and buy one of these facilities and show us all how you can make this thing work. Your time is now. Don't delay.

Now pardon me while I step away. I have an important task ahead of me. I have sock drawer that needs to be rearranged.:10:

It has everything to do with us. Without fans, there is no racing business. Fans want to see what they traveled for and paid to see. It is entertainment and a spectator sport. If it isn't entertaining or the spectators are not happy with the product, it will not last. Fans are concerned because they care and don't want to see the product go away.

Re: Rain Out Procedures
 

I beg to differ that no one makes money. If the traveling series fill the pits and the track tries to keep their money and not pay anyone anything, that's $25 pit pass times however many hundreds of people people plus tran$ponder rental for every car. I would love to go to work tomorrow and make that kind of nothing. I'm sure they spend a little on track prep (very little, usually don't start until we start getting there), staff costs, etc, but they are still making a killing raping the racers. Here's what the rule should be. Pay the purse or refund the traveling racers' money. Period. If the weather is that iffy, cancel early enough to save the thousands of dollars of diesel fuel. The track must know they have a problem if they are trying to get the travelers to sign something that they know they aren't getting a refund if it rains.

You can't pay the purse when the feature isn't ran. Tracks pay the sanction bodies way before the race I'm sure but I might be wrong. I don't know of to many tracks that pay heat races now days. If the tracks cancel early they get bashed, if they try get it in they get bashed, if they move it to a different day cause of weather fans bash. It is a no win situation. They offered you a show at same money if you wish or save your band for 2015 sprint week and they get bashed. Good luck finding very any tracks that refund money. Most it's posted right when you pay NO CASH REFUNDS. I drove to Lawrenceburg for my first time sun. 3 hrs there and 3 back , tickets for 2 adults 2kids plus fed them while I was there. I walked out seeing a new track for the first time. Heats I saw were awesome, track was fast. Very nice facility. Talked to people that I never get a chance to cause I'm always working.
Plus I knew the weather before I went. It was toss up for sprint week at Lawrenceburg or Summer Nationals at Danville.

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There are good and bad things about auto racing message boards. Please use this as an example of that fact.

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How many times have you seen a great race when there's a 40% or higher chance of rain 24 hours before the race? You want to lose out on those events? I know I don't!

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Have you ever bought a scratch off ticket, lottery ticket,or put money in a slot machine, and lost your money ? Did you complain to the lottery board or the gaming commisioner that you didn't win what you wanted? If you went to a movie that you didn't like ,did you ask for a refund ? I'd bet not. Racing fans are rolling the dice everytime with the weather. During the weather delays at The Burg, I toured the pits, Talked with friends in section A and enjoyed the time with my neice and nephew who came from Fort Campbell Ky. Best $30.00 spent enjoying quality time with family and friends. On the drive back to Indy we where all happy that we saw the teams and drivers in the pits, hot laps, qualifications, and 3 great heat races. :8::8::8:

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Where you there ?

The way I have always known and thought is that if you buy a pit pass and an engine has been fired you don't get your pit pass money back. At that point in time I would like to think the track has insurance. If no engines have been fired and your just sitting in the pits its up to the tracks policy for a refund. Now if you have sat through practice ,qualifying ,and three heat races. Sorry about your luck. At that point I think no refunds are in order. Now most tracks that I have been to will offer up at least tow money that is greatly appreciated but not expected . In the case of this last weekend I think what USAC and the burg did was very fair. Now what the nonwing teams in Michigan experienced last Saturday was beyond fair. They fired engines off, ran some practice, and did get all pit pass money back. I haven't seen the rain out policy change much in my 33 years of going to the races. Grandstand passes have always had the 50% rule. If 50% of the show has been ran then its a show.

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Thank you Mud Packer! You explained it clearly and completely.... which means the thick headed whiners (and one aspiring arsonist) still won't have a clue.

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Kokomo last Saturday night is a perfect example.

I believe what tracks need to do is post their rainout policy clearly everywhere they can at the track or their website or their preferred social media site. It does not mean people won't complain because they will but, sometimes they have a legitimate complaints so, many times the track really doesn't have a policy they just go on a whim when it happens and don't really have a plan and that confuses people and then the next step they blow up. At least if people know what your policy is they can still blow up but, they will look stupid doing it.

Re: Rain Out Procedures
 

LBurg Rules page
RAIN OUTS/CANCELLATIONS/UNCOMPLETED EVENTS:
Track officials may cancel a race if dangerous or unsafe conditions arise. If the race is called because of an accident or weather, the payoff will be based on the last completed green flag lap. All cars involved in the final caution will be scored at the end of the last completed lap. For the race to be considered official, at least 50% of the scheduled number of laps must have been completed.

If all of the preliminary races or part of the features have been completed and the weather forces the program to be cancelled, there will be no "rainout". Make-up features will be run in the subsequent nights, if possible, and no new cars will be added to the field. Also, if all of the preliminaries are completed on day on of a two-day show, no new cars will be able to compete on the second day in a consy or feature, unless they were in the pit area on the first day.

If the races are cancelled prior to the completion of all of the preliminary events, a "rain out" will be declared. Your tickets will be good for any race remainder of the year (excluding WOO events or Fun Fest) at face value. If an increased admission event occurs in one of the following weeks, you may use your rain check and pay the difference. No refunds will be given for the difference in the ticket prices in either case.

Exception: If feature event(s) is/are cancelled and the show has been considered a complete show, and no rain date will be utilized, the total feature purse may be split equally among the qualified drivers, if 50% or more of the feature has not been completed. Officials also reserves the right to choose a scenario that best fits the interest of Lawrenceburg Speedway, which may or may not include a make-up night or refunding of all gate receipts.

LPS Track Info page
Rain Out Policy
A ticket may be used at any time during the remainder of the season. It is recommended that a special event ticket be used for another special event. If special event rain out ticket is used for a regular event, there will be no cash refunds. Regular tickets can be upgraded for a special event.

Gas City Website N/A

Paragon
Rainout Policy
In the event of a sudden shower, the starter will halt the races. If the rain, in the opinion of the track officials, is sufficient to cancel the remainder of the contest, racing will not be resumed. If warm-ups and Heat races have been completed, rain checks will Not be honored. However, the missed events (Semi's or Features) will be run on a subsequent evening. In any case, always keep your ticket stub and await instructions from the track officials. There will be NO CASH REFUNDS!

Weather forecasters seem to love to predict rain, gloom and doom. Well... we just don't listen. We go ahead with our racing events whenever we can, regardless of predictions or actual conditions in the surrounding communities. Many fans call early in the afternoon after the weatherman threatens bad stuff. We never call an event early if it looks like rain or even if they predict bad weather. They seem to be wrong 99% of the time. Should we second guess Mother Nature and be wrong, we are sorry.
Please check our website or call the track phones for current weather related messages.

In some instances, events must be cancelled. Although the favored choice, for the safety of both participants and spectators, these decisions must be made. We hope you enjoy Paragon Speedway and become one of our valued fans.

Less than 6 events: Rain checks are used and will be honored for an upcoming event. Rain check will be valid for the amount you paid.

More than 6 events: Considered a complete show and rain checks will NOT be used. Rain out features will be run the next available week, before that evenings heat races.

Kokomo
The rain check policy is as follows: If the halfway point in the program (heat races) has been completed, rain checks will NOT be issued. If the halfway point has not been completed, rain checks will be honored at forthcoming regular programs. NO CASH REFUNDS. Rained-out features will be run the following week, before the evening’s heat races.

Terre Haute
N/A on Website but they have honored rainout wristbands for future shows. Personal Experience.

Bloomington
Rain Check Policy
In the event of severe or inclement weather the flagman will Red Flag the racing. If, in the opinion of the Speedway management and officials, the weather is sufficient enough to cancel the remainder of the racing program it will be called off because of weather. If the halfway point in the program has been completed (heat races and B-mains), rain checks will not be honored. If the halfway point in the program has not been completed, rain checks will be honored at any event at a dollar to dollar value.

Your ticket stub or armband is your rain check. Bloomington Speedway is not responsible for loss or theft of your rain check.

If you choose to use your rain check receipt at an event with a higher admission price you will have to pay the difference. There are NO REFUNDS.

Rained out feature events will be made up if possible and time permits.

Tri-State Faq page

What happens if a race is rained out or postponed?
ANSWER:

If tickets have been sold and we have not completed one half of the events (to be determined by the event itself), the ticket stubs will be honored if the race is rescheduled or at one of the next two scheduled races with the price adjusted if necessary. You must keep your ticket stub (rain check) to present for exchange at the ticket booth when you return. There are no cash refunds.

Eldora
Rain Check Policies – In the event of a complete rainout, a ticket holder has the option of receiving a refund or applying the value of their ticket towards another event. Refunds are issued in the same manner in which the purchase was made. Rain check policies may differ on events that were started prior to the rain cancellation. Please listen to Public Address announcements or refer to www.eldoraspeedway.com for detailed information regarding those situations. A rain check of a complimentary ticket (face value of $0.00) is not a valid rain check.


They're almost all identical and yet we still have the people who pitch a hissy, Say they've never had that happen to them etc.
There it is.

Re: Rain Out Procedures
 

I had no problem with call they made. There are a lot factors that the decision was based on. In fact I felt as bad for the track as I did anyone, because they were out money too. It rained. Something we can't control

Charles you must have a lot of extra time on your hands, lol. This has been very entertaining reading all of this. Comparing going to a race to gambling? Wow. I think the biggest thing people are upset about is Dave not using the rain date that was offered to him. Keep in mind, this is indiana sprint week, not some normal Saturday show. I think people would have understood if one of the first two tracks needed the rain date. But they didn't, a rain date was available, and it wasn't used.

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Eric Smith, Gas City is for sale. Figured you might want to buy it make millions and show everybody how it is done, but my guess is you won't. That would take guts. A lot more than I have.

Re: Rain Out Procedures
 

Brent; He could make millions OR change the name of the track to "100% Satisfaction Guaranteed Or Your Money Cheerfully Refunded Speedway" and go down in history as the only promoter to have made everybody happy every time. :D

Re: Rain Out Procedures
 

I can remember driving to Eldora, several times, ( 4 hours one way) and it rained all the way from FT. Wayne to North Star. No rain at the track. Had the same thing happen the other way, no rain except at the track. We knew leaving the house what the chances were of rain.

Today, you can look at the radar on cell phones etc. we are better updated to make CHOICES. That is what it is, a choice, go or stay home.

GET OVER IT! I have was invoved with some promoting back in the 80's. If you cancel because it might rain, you are a idioit. Then you become known as the track that cancels if it looks like rain. If you try to race with shakey weather, you run the chance of low fan and low count. Its no win for the promoter!!! I was offered a chance to some again about 5 years ago. No way man.

So Eric, get the wallet out and do what as been suggested. Buy a track. Better yet, Mike will gladly let you lease I-96 and you can show us and him how it is done. And make sure it is a cloudy day with a 50% chance of rain!

Keep complaining and soon we will not have anything to complain about as far as race tracks go. (Baer Field etc.)

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I think it is outstanding for Lawrenceburg Speedway to honor my 2014 armband for the 2015 Indiana Sprint week show. I believe they are trying to take the high road to make right something that was out of their control. I think every track should be built across from casinos then disgruntled race fans can go gamble and lose real money to strangers who aren't remotely interested in taking the high road.

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I'm still trying to figure out why everyone is so worked up about this whole rainout deal. It happens somewhere every week and nobody is ever THIS worked up about it. Theres more outcry about this Lawrenceburg show it seems like than Haubstadt last year and lets face it that battle at Tri-State brewing going into the final round last year between Clauson and KTJ would have been a good one, both racing for the rocker.

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No, but I definitely would complain if I bought a lottery ticket and they didn't hold the drawing! :5:

steiny
:32:

Good work now does each track have this posted at their track in plain view for everyone to see. If not they need to. If you have a good policy there is no need to hide it. Some think if the post it it might detour some from coming but, my feeling is if they don't know and then you enforce the rule you have laid out they get pissed and say they are never coming back.

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Big shows should never be rained out but always have a rain date planned in advance.

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Eric thanks for your post , you took a lot of heat off the promoters .

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7 shows, Ten days. Say four of the shows got rained out and had a rain date and you couldn't make that date. You'd be *$*$# same as you are now.

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In fact, With your Arm Band, Didn't LBurg essentially give you a rain date for sprint week 2015 or any remaining show on this years schedule?

I know TSS has theirs clearly post at the ticket booth

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Ooookay my feeling is it's my money so that me boss not the track owner:31:. The track wants to be like that I'll stay home, been goin racing since 1968 never have seen such lousy promoters as lately:7:. Don't advertise, treat people & racers poorly then wonder why nobody comes:15:. Racer told me promoter told them don't like it there's the gate:14:. There's another track about 1.5 miles away on the same night - stupid. Never had a problem w/ refund when it rained in old days, sure 1/2 the races fine no refund. But when all you do is build heat in engine & rains refunds are due. I enjoy racing but lately it's get'n bad. :deadhorse:
Another thing is moan & groan about refund but will race (non wing) at a track w/ no ambulance or fire equipment NOW THAT'S STUPID:14::14:

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There have been times I have went to the promoter and explained I live 4 or 5 states away and he understood and bought my ticket back, those times seem to be less and less. Other times I have been told it wasn't their fault I drove so far and can't come back.

But then again my wife and I still drove out from Kansas for Gas City and Kokomo when They were saying a 70% chance of rain for Saturday when we left. We had to work Monday so we didn't have the chance to gamble on Sunday.

If a refund is not available and I know I can't make it for the rain date I usually look for a local fan, give them my ticket or armband and ask them to take or give it to someone who normally doesn't normally go to the races. New fans means the track will be there when I can come back.