MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Next race:

MMSA returns to North Vernon!!!

Last weeks results:



"Andy Bradley holds off Lynn Ambrose for the win at Western Kentucky"

As the rain threatened Saturday night, 15 MMSA Lightning Sprints signed in at Western Kentucky Speedway.
The track crew used the light rain received to transform the speedway into an extremely fast and smooth racing surface. During the heat races it was very evident that WKS was a perfect venue for the MMSA. Most cars fell between the 16-17 sec lap times, and top speeds where clocked near 100mph.

Bradley led the field to green and led the first five laps until a very fast Colin Ambrose went to the high side and pulled from the field. Ambrose pulled to a comfortable lead, at the halfway point the yellow came out for sprint car regular Mark Perry who cut down a tire. During the caution laps disaster struck for Colin Ambrose as one of the coolant lines burst on his #36. With one to go Lynn Ambrose put his #77 machine on the bottom to challenge Bradley but was unable to make the pass giving Bradley his first feature win of the year and his first win as a car builder.

Bradley, L. Ambrose , and Mensendiek round out your top three.

Alex Shipman was the hard charger passing 8 cars to end up 6th, and Luke Cone was the top 600cc.




Results Tab:
Heat 1
#86 Andy Bradley
#37 Doug Jones
#71 Nathan Mensendiek
#39 Damon Fortune
#11m Mark Perry
#10c Chis Baumeyer
#19 Mike Miller R
#77w Dan Wolf

Heat 2
#36 Collin Ambrose
#77 Lynn Ambrose
#87 Travis Stickels
#49 Troy Fortune R
#50 Luke Cone R
#11 Alex Shipman
#88j Jr. Sutton

Feature
#86 Andy Bradley
#77 Lynn Ambrose
#71 Nathan Mensendiek
#39 Damon Fortune
#49 Troy Fortune R
#11 Alex Shipman
#87 Travis Stickels
#10c Chris Baumeyer
#19 Mike Miller R
#77w Dan Wolf
#11m Mark Perry
#36 Collin Ambrose
#37 Doug Jones
#50 Luke Cone R
#88j Jr. Sutton - DNS

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

MMSA

Is it "Lightning Sprints" now? Guess that would make us "MLSA" instead of "MMSA"?
Time to start talking about Twin City?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

pay attention DAD, it's MMSA Lightning Sprints....I like it better than MINI...since the little cars have taken over our:D:D name instead of using their true name MICRO SPRINTS

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Ron

When we was growing up and racing we called them "Micro Midgets". Powered by Cushman's. Villier's, Wisconsin''s, and even a few little 250cc Konig's.

"Mid-West Mini Sprint Association Lightning Sprints" "MMSALS" Right?

Kinda of Like the "American Mini-Sprint Association Lightning Sprints" "AMSALS"

I See Said The Blind Man.:D:3:;):5::6::8:

I kinda of like "Metric Midget's" my self, you know, Full Midget race car's powered by a metric sized motor. I think the USA switched over to the "Metric System" back in the 70's, it's high time we get with the program. We would be racing on a .4/10th Kilometer track.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I ran micro midgets. I think. And Modified Midgets. I think. And Mini-sprints. I think. Before I went to the sprint car. I'm just glad I sold them when I did. Because today I wouldn't know what to tell people that I raced. Lol.

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

leohr

We are still looking for our true identity. You might say we are "Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered"

Do you race Econo 2 bl, 305, 360, 410, winged on non winged, USAC, ect, ect?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

You may want to consider inserting the word "upright" in there somewhere,

MUMSALS, MMSAULS, etc.

The next time they have a "National rule meeting" they should consider the names of

Midget Lites or Midget II's, move up a notch, get away from those "other" cars,

Bill may

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Bill

As a young kids I can remember a few "NUMNUTS" racing with us.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Dad. I just run non-wing 410's locally.
Also congratulations to Andy. We have raced several laps together at Linton. Way to go on also being the car builder.

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Bill

What would be wrong with just "Midget" and or "Winged Midget"? Isn't that what we are racing after all. We take a Midget Chassis and running gear and power it by in our case a 1000cc motorcycle engine instead of a "TRO Toyota" motor. Kinda of like "360" as opposed to "410" Sprint Car.

Less I forget the same people who did not think "Mini" was appropriate also disdain the term "Midget" and I bet "Washington Red Skins". So I guess that leaves us with the term "Speed Cars" doesn't that sound appropriate "Mate".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

if you insist on keeping those awnings on the top of your cars, how about Winged Litre Midget Association; WLMA...

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Jim

I see them things as added protection from Ultraviolet Rays brought about by the thinning of the Ozone layer brought about by overzealous use of race race cars powered by internal combustion engines without proper emission control devices installed as per EPA regulations.

After spending time on the Left Coast I'm sure you understand. They teach it in Grade School, along with use of pocket calculators and Cursive Writing.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

I say (quoting the 5th dimension) "Let the Sun Shine In".
I guess what I run is a NONWATOALM; NON-Wing A Tad-Over-A-Litre-Midget...
Sounds a little Native American, which our cars definitely are. Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and NONWATOALM.
I think I need to leave work early today, I'm getting dingy.

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Dad, I think cursive writing has been replaced in California Public Schools with no-score-keeping T-ball and Bamboo Sweater Knitting 101, among the many reasons I'm proud to be a Cali ex-pat, transplanted Hoosier...

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Jim

Just me battling "Old Timers". Quoting George Bernard Shaw “You see things; and you say ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say ‘Why not?’” . Sure fooled Me? (Sorry Bobby)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Dad, I think cursive writing has been replaced in California Public Schools with no-score-keeping T-ball and Bamboo Sweater Knitting 101, among the many reasons I'm proud to be a Cali ex-pat, transplanted Hoosier...

Jim

I guess you know that a "Hoosier" is nothing more than a "Kentucky Hill Billy" that ran out of money before they got to Michigan.

Ain't that right Ron and Bill.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Originally Posted by Leohr46:
Dad. I just run non-wing 410's locally.
Also congratulations to Andy. We have raced several laps together at Linton. Way to go on also being the car builder.

Leohr

Did you race with a kid named Adam Nigg, I think he was from down your way also.

We race there a couple of time years ago, neat little race track. Best I can remember. I was told that Andy tried to make the straightway down there quite a bit longer one race.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Jim, the reason for dropping cursive writing is, it is impossible to do using only your thumbs, but I hear help is on the way, with genetic induced morf thumbs that allow holding a pencil with one's thumb! Bob

Dad..... I raced with Adam Nigg, Scott and Andy Bradley. Also the Yagles.I also remember you from Little Salem when I ran down there a time or two. I had a Teal color ERC. Number 46

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

We called em the gaggle of Yegles. That sure is a name out of the past.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Don't forget Chansler, Shipman, Mcdonald, Lee Deckard, Jeremy, the potters x3,

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

How about >>>Danny Pitman, Brent Poynter, Gilstrap, Chris Borgman, Jt Stapp, Chris Guinn, Chuck Tarr, Gina Lowe, Dennis Brown, Brad Kuhn, James Deck>>>>>Mike Jones, Duane Brown, Rick Allen>>>> Mark Humphrey, Dane Carter, >>>>AJ Felker

We took a couple years Exodus from Thundervalley back then to race with the "Buckeye Mini Sprints" (Bill May) when the Salem track owners decided we were running an illegal (Stealth) chassis. So I guess we might have missed out on a few racers at ThunderValley.

They thought all of that chassis offset was stupid and would never work, that was 20 years ago. Have you seen the cars lately? It only took 20 years to catch on.;) Wonder what the cars would look like today had we followed Thunder Valley rules and ditched the Stealth back then.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Meanwhile, back at the (thread) Ranch, I plan to attend Twin Cities sat. nite, Hope you Guy's have a car count like at Brownstown a couple weeks ago and more cars back at WKS on the 28th.

The weather looks almost perfect, Good luck to all the MMSA (upright, lightning Sprint) racers.

Bill May

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

OK

We took a rock to the radiator at WKS. Did not find it till Tuesday night after we cleaned it up and couldn't find anything that would work. We are trying to get together for Montpelier.

So what happened at Twin Cities?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
OK

We took a rock to the radiator at WKS. Did not find it till Tuesday night after we cleaned it up and couldn't find anything that would work. We are trying to get together for Montpelier.

So what happened at Twin Cities?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

This was posted on the MMSA Facebook page.

Twin Cities 06/14/14 20 Cars

Heat 1

#12 Michael Roehling
#36 Collin Ambrose
#14 Tad Cheek
#39 Damon Fortune
#25 Colin Parker
#19 Mike Miller R
‪#‎11m‬ Mark Perry - DQ

Heat 2

#77 Lynn Ambrose
#11 Alex Shipman
‪#‎2m‬ Colin Miller
‪#‎10c‬ Chris Baumeyer
#151 Jim Gardner
‪#‎88j‬ Jr Sutton
#49 Troy Fortune – DNS R

Heat 3

#71 Nathan Mesendiek
#86 Andy Bradley
#51 Paul Davis
#00 Cory Meadows R
#111 Daniel Lucas
‪#‎14k‬ Kyle Dugan R

Feature

#36 Collin Ambrose
#77 Lynn Ambrose
#39 Damon Fortune
#71 Nathan Mesendiek
#12 Michael Roehling
#14 Tad Cheek
#151 Jim Gardner
#86 Andy Bradley
#51 Paul Davis
#2m Colin Miller
#19 Mike Miller R
#10c Chris Baumeyer
#111 Daniel Lucas
#11 Alex Shipman
#88j Jr. Sutton
#00 Cory Meadows – DNF R
#14k Kyle Dugan – DNF R
#25 Colin Parker – DNF
#11m Mark Perry – DNS
#49 Troy Fortune – DNS R

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Thanks Jay

About as close as I get to "social media" is IOW. I just can't get into all them questions and things.

What would really be neat would be to also post the starting position of each driver in their particular race as well as the finish position, that would be almost like a play by play thing for me.

Then we could use passing points to set line up for the feature instead of roulette. We might draw a pill for straight up starts or inverted starts for the feature. On some occasions that cold make a very good race for both the racers and fans. We used to do it that way in the olden days and for some reason the race is usually a little more interesting when them fast guys start from the tail. I know we do it all the time!!:D:D and it sure gets me excited during the race.


Honest Dad himself.:6::6::

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
Thanks Jay

About as close as I get to "social media" is IOW. I just can't get into all them questions and things.

What would really be neat would be to also post the starting position of each driver in their particular race as well as the finish position, that would be almost like a play by play thing for me.

Then we could use passing points to set line up for the feature instead of roulette. We might draw a pill for straight up starts or inverted starts for the feature. On some occasions that cold make a very good race for both the racers and fans. We used to do it that way in the olden days and for some reason the race is usually a little more interesting when them fast guys start from the tail. I know we do it all the time!!:D:D and it sure gets me excited during the race.


Honest Dad himself.:6::6::

I will see if I can get the results including where each driver starts and start posting them on here for the non Facebook users. Think your points about the line ups for the features will be voted on by all the members of the MMSA at the next race. If for any reason any member can not make the next race please let one of the officials know what you would like to see concerning the Feature line up procedures.

They will also be discussing the weight rules and how we conduct the weigh in after the race and taking a vote on this as well.

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

LOL...too funny

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

MC

You are becoming a regular reader and "Midwest Mini Sprint Association Lightning Sprint" Fan. Them Ambrose boys are doing pretty good with those MCPerformance Fab Inductions Systems aren't they. Did I tell you so.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Originally Posted by Avon Open Wheel fan:
I will see if I can get the results including where each driver starts and start posting them on here for the non Facebook users. Think your points about the line ups for the features will be voted on by all the members of the MMSA at the next race. If for any reason any member can not make the next race please let one of the officials know what you would like to see concerning the Feature line up procedures.

They will also be discussing the weight rules and how we conduct the weigh in after the race and taking a vote on this as well.

Jay

I am not much in favor of voting at a race track concerning changes of rules and procedures. In fact I am not too fond of the idea of putting anything to a vote period by the members..

MMSA was not founded as a democracy. In fact I was a opposed to the Idea period. It was founded by 2 guys Bill May the guy with the original idea to improve the lot of the "MINI-SPRINT" racers, with a better purse and a better selection of race tracks for us to race on and Allen Ruppenthal the builder of the ERC race cars who was looking for better way to showcase his cars and increase participation in the sport. These guys came up with a rule package borrowing from the AMSA rules with the exception of limiting the motor size to 1000cc's. That rule package worked fine for 6 years.

With the passing of Allen and retiring of Bill May from active participation in the group. MMSA was taken over by younger and more energetic people. The first order of business was to discard the rule package for a new national based rule book. This book shared very little in common with the package we had been racing under for the last 6 years, and in the haste to publish has several rather glaring flaws incorporated into it. We have chosen to overlook these flaws in the spirit of good faith. I don't remember voting in favor of it or against it. (OK maybe a few post on IOW), but no vote.

The way I see things is, Democratic racing groups do not work well, because the group consists of many individuals with many different opinions and agendas. A true agreement will never be possible, and we start down the nasty road of ******** (you do this for me and I'll do that for you). This leaves some and sometimes almost all the members (participants) upset and disenfranchised.

Allen had an agenda for what he wanted. Bill May came to the table as a man (Benevolent Dictator) who could listen to everyone and at times make phone calls to get the pulse of what was happening. He then took this insight and ruled the group in the way that he thought was best for all. I sure didn't agree with some of Bill's rules, but I knew that what Bill said was gospel for everyone in the group and that was that.

When people see favoritism shown for one racer or the other the group is in trouble. I don't need to mention any groups by name because most of us know far to well what happens.

My suggestion would be, Look over and reconsider the MMSA rules of the past. Bill May is retired as Dictator but us old folks know of another term for such people. "Dictator Emeritus", from what I see he is still kicking pretty high these days, and has insight into the working of the mini sprinters mind. Rather than a vote being taken at a distant race track that will more than likely end up being a purely political thing, just ask Bill May.

Rules are rules, If you can believe it we were once DQ'd for being 2 pounds under weight. We didn't like it or believe it, in fact at home on our scales we were 40 pounds heavy. The scales had not been set up correctly, but we took the call. The straw that broke the camels back was when we got DQ'd for a 2" too wide left nerf bar. I sure am glad Bill and Allen came up with the MMSA.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

We should never be using the scales that the tracks have that we visit. Most of the time the scales are for late models or super stocks and are calibrated for those weights. Our cars are much too light for these big scales to get a proper reading. It's a no brainier to be using our own scales. If we have them already, bring them along and use them. And I think 2 pounds light shouldn't be a big deal. It should be if someone is like 20 pounds too light, then there's an issue. 2 pounds shouldn't matter. But bring out a finely tuned set of scales and then we can accurately weigh everyone and there should never be any discrepancies whatsoever. As far as the invert goes...I've never heard of 9 cars being inverted. 6 or 8 at the most, but 9 was just bizarre. But I don't care either way really...I just enjoy racing and want to have a good time. Some people take this waaaay too seriously. Let's remember to have FUN first and foremost.

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

CMI

To me 2 pounds is as bad as 200. We tiptoe across the scales at about 100 pounds over usually. The deal was probably a part scale accuracy and maybe a little light also. I have watched racers go back and forth to the scales before the race trying to just barley make the weight, this is a bit much for me. My advice to the racers is set the car up 10 pounds heavy dry. You wont have to waste your time bolting and un-bolting weight. Carrying around scales can be a problem making sure that the scale person is in fact going to the next race that weekend. Why not get 2 Home Depot 5 gal buckets and fill them with concrete mark them and use them as calibration weights for the track scales? Maybe get 6 buckets and let several crews pack them back and forth to the track. For what it is worth most of those old track scales are plenty accurate as far as repetition goes they could be off several pounds because of failure to "TARE" them. That mud adds up over a night of racing, but that is usually in your favor. The weight rule is about the most fair rule we have in mini sprint racing today, I would like to see it be a bit higher. A good driver can make up extra weight but a guy starting out needs as much help as we can give him. The way it is today we are saying if you weigh over 200 pounds you would best stay with stock cars.

As far as starting positions for the feature race. If you started the fastest racers 9 places back it would make for one hell of a race for the fans, maybe not for the fast guys, but racing would be better. We have started back in the middle of the pack on numerous occasions after wining a heat race (My driver sucks at drawing pills) ( he also sucks at qualifying) so what the heck. Yeh I think it sucks but it sure gives my driver a work out and does get me excited.

Power-I has gone to passing points for feature starting line up. I don't know how it works but they do have a rule book.

If I had my way If a guy won his feature this week he would be guaranteed a tail starting spot his next feature race. (Sorry Collin)

Our job is to satisfy the fans in the stands and not feed our own ego's. We want to put on as good of race as possible, and when a guy starts on the pole and pulls away from the pack that to me is not good racing , and is sure not very exciting. The chances of them fast guys starting on the tail and still winning the feature is still pretty good because when they start on the pole they still manage to lap several cars in the course of the race.

Maybe by figuring passing points for each race and using them to determine season championship points would help. Maybe figuring payout by passing points and the trophy for the race winner.

Heck I don't know what would be best. But it should be left to one person and not in the middle of the race year.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I agree with the invert thing. Fast guys will get to the front regardless. Lynn and Collin both do it every week. And they're the bench mark for everyone else. Try and beat them!
I was just saying I've never heard of 9 drivers to the invert. Usually it's an even number. 6 or 8. That's all. I actually felt kinda bad cause I got 3rd in my heat and Lynn, who won my heat, had to start behind me. To me that doesn't seem right. But then again, he blew by me on the first lap so...my bad feelings were quickly wiped away with the 77 on the tail tank getting smaller and smaller. Lol.

And the scales thing. To reiterate the fact that if we already have them...bring them! They're not that hard to set up and anyone can read the digital number it reads out. Some tracks we go to (Columbus, Charlestown, Thunder Valley?) don't even have scales! So then what? I don't see it being a big deal, and it brings uniformity to a sometimes chaotic procedure. I know that other group used their own scales for the longest time...not sure how they do it now at Waynesfield.

Just my .02 worth

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

CMI

What the MMSA drivers needs to do is go together and sponsor the "Ambrose Sprint Car" and wish them off on another group>:):)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

We can bringem, they are just cumbersome and the ramps are b$tch to haul,

Dad the issue was the Vernon scales read in 10lb increments. A car that didn't even need to weigh, showed 10 under... Basically the call to vote us for procedure not rules.

Can't wait to hit Mt P this week, a great track, and I think some OH folks are coming out!

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Had a blast running my favorite track last week and look forward to running a new bullring on Saturday. Does anybody have any gear recommendations for both a GSXR1000 and an R1? Trying to bring both cars if I can get them done...

Now as a non-member/outlaw/invader of the series I'm not sure if my opinion is warranted or needed. I'm just happy to have people that put time into making the series run. And then have those same people field cars (which is time consuming enough), and then spend most of their time helping figure out why your engine is running on 3 cylinders and fixing it. This is a pretty awesome group.

Had to step away from the impromptu, end-of-the-night meeting to talk with some fans that ventured down to the pits, but I'm aware of the mini-controversies that occurred on Saturday. First the scale deal... that's pretty much one of the most black-and-white rules in racing. Finish up front = go to the scales. There are 5 years olds running karts that can follow that. There are always discrepancies in measuring equipment, so give a grace of 5% or so across the board. If the car is supposed to way 940# then 893# or above passes. Even a set of bathroom scales wouldn't be that far off.

As far as the invert, I think it's a little much as well. I would rather see the top 6 or 8 lined up by passing points for the feature. That way the guys that worked hard to get to the top 2 or 3 in the heat race from the back get rewarded. And the great pill drawers have to pass someone to get up front.

Just my two cents. I have fun running with y'all. A great group to run with. If I lived closer I'd run a bunch more.

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
We can bringem, they are just cumbersome and the ramps are b$tch to haul,

Dad the issue was the Vernon scales read in 10lb increments. A car that didn't even need to weigh, showed 10 under... Basically the call to vote us for procedure not rules.

Andy

Like I said scales are a pain, but they do bring a sense of fair play to the table. I have never seen a scale that measures in 10 pound increments, even the truck scale at the scrap yard we sell mufflers to is good to the tenth of a pound, the old Fairbanks-Morse grain scales could also get down to the ounces. The last time we raced North Vernon they had a regular race car scaled rigged up to the old scale on the hill best I can remember. But what the heck anyhow.

The fixation with weight shared by all racer's intrigues me. If the weight is 940 pounds does anybody really think 950 is going to make a difference in their performance. The minimum weight should be the minimum weight. The "prudent" racer I would think would have a car that weighed at least 10 pounds over with an empty gas tank the minimum weight and that would cover the margin of error of for race car, driver, and scale accuracy in most all situations, and it would stop that frequent trip back and forth to the scale.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

:8::8:Montpelier

Is a really nice Bull-Ring. It has medium banking, has been know to build up a real nice cushion to race off of and usually holds up quite well. This is probably because of the effort of a very dedicated track crew.

Harold has put forth an extraordinary effort to bring back regular midget racing to that part of Indiana, making rules simple enough and broad enough to entice most all Midget Sized race cars, ranging from Full Midgets, to Focus and Echo tec and yes even Mini Sprints with their chain drives being accepted as racing machines. the only problem I could find with the set up is it is about 100 miles too far away from us.

It is going to be hard to suggest gearing for Montpelier because I understand that Harold and crew has done extensive work to both the track and the facility. My guess is going to be between Browns Town and Thunder Valley. You can carry a lot of speed around that little track and race 3 abreast at times.

The last time we were there we lost the race and the MMSA Championship to Collin Ambrose. Doug racing up hard against the cushion and Collin carrying the mail down on the bottom. :9::9:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: MMSA Lightning Sprints
 

2# 4# 10# if you are over. you are over...I have been disqualified over 3#... so has Sammy in WOO...either you have a weight rule or why bother. now do you need (3) chances to roll onto scales to confirm accuracy? say strike three rule? Just so you know, cat scales (truck stop) will jump 40 pounds while you still settin' on them. Saturday a driver was not listening to his radio, as everyone was told which 3 cars were to go to the scales. all this flap is about a 5th place driver that disqualified himself.:11: