Night Before The 500
 

As we all know Pavement midget racing is going away which sucks because its amazing racing. But I think USAC has ruined the value of the Pavement series in General (sprint and Silver Crown Also). I think this years Night Before will be the final one because of no USAC pavement midgets. On the bright Side, they will always have a chance to race With STARS at Grundy County. Awesome racing there!!!!

USAC has had this in their plans for a while. How could they not see this coming 5 or more years ago?

5 years ago at that race they had 40 some cars, look it up! USAC tanked it when they separated the pavement from the national championship. There is still pavement sprints out there and pavement midgets out there, no one wants to run with USAC. They just keep shooting themselves in there foot with self serving rules and decisions being made to cater to a few and not the club as a whole. They can't figure out how to make the racer want to run with there organization.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

always love message boards that ***** about everything and provide no solutions, unfortunately that's pretty much every auto racing message board in existance and is why I've always found discussing racing on the internet quite the thankless chore

("NASCAR should be ashamed that a bunch of reddit nerds exploited the fan vote to get Josh Wise in the All-Star Race!")

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by rj1:
("NASCAR should be ashamed that a bunch of reddit nerds exploited the fan vote to get Josh Wise in the All-Star Race!")

Why, you think that Danica was somehow pushed to the curb? At least Josh Wise has won races throughout his career.

Originally Posted by rj1:
always love message boards that ***** about everything and provide no solutions, unfortunately that's pretty much every auto racing message board in existance and is why I've always found discussing racing on the internet quite the thankless chore

("NASCAR should be ashamed that a bunch of reddit nerds exploited the fan vote to get Josh Wise in the All-Star Race!")

Nobody asked you for your $0.02 worth. If you don't like reading these boards, then please! By all means! Excuse yourself from them!

Re: Night Before The 500
 

There was no exploitation of the fan votes. It is just that, a vote. Period. They helped fund the guy so damn right they're going to vote him into the all star race.

Also, just because someone uses a website doesn't automatically make them into a nerd. I'm sure you're a really cool dude though and you've got it all figured out.

11 cars. Should make for a nice 50 lap heat race. I laugh because 3 years ago there was 35 cars! Great job everyone!

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Usually when someone starts the old "I remember back when.........." stuff, it is a reference to events of way more than 3 or 4 or 5 years ago.

Shocking that the USAC (pavement) midgets have sunk this far in such a scant few years. :7:

:16 But I do recall the Night Before the 500 midget race being contested on dirt a few times back in those days some of us old farts love to reminisce about.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Kevin has done a fantastic job!!! In his tenure at USAC he has killed off the pavement sprints, destroyed the Silver Crown series, after the turd he laid tonight he has killed off pavement midgets! All his "stars" are off racing other places tonight instead of competing at the (before Kevin) most prestigious midget race in USAC !! Now, he is down to 8 sprint car teams!! Once POWER-I wakes up an notices that there are only about 6 USAC midget teams that will be the end of USAC midgets!! But, I do owe a big thank you to Kevin and Jason Smith for retiring me prior to destroying what myself and many good men spent a lifetime building!

Re: Night Before The 500
 

How are those guys still employed? Anyone in their right mind would have fired them by now.

Originally Posted by ossuks:
Kevin has done a fantastic job!!! In his tenure at USAC he has killed off the pavement sprints, destroyed the Silver Crown series, after the turd he laid tonight he has killed off pavement midgets! All his "stars" are off racing other places tonight instead of competing at the (before Kevin) most prestigious midget race in USAC !! Now, he is down to 8 sprint car teams!! Once POWER-I wakes up an notices that there are only about 6 USAC midget teams that will be the end of USAC midgets!! But, I do owe a big thank you to Kevin and Jason Smith for retiring me prior to destroying what myself and many good men spent a lifetime building!

Why don't you go work for them again and fix all these problems since it seems you have the solution. All you do is bash USAC when you post my guess is you have burned a lot bridges in your day and can't even be considered for it anymore. I get tired of people whining about USAC this USAC that but no one seems to have a legitimate solution. Come up with a solidified solution to the problems even if it's just one of many they may have and submit to the USAC office. The best way to help USAC and the racers is to support them and bring a friend to the track. Not sure where you get 8 sprint car teams either last I checked they have never had a show with that low of a count at a sprint car event.

Again everyone just needs to support them and help them grow instead of bashing your not solving anything just hurting the sport more. Submit something to spridge if you have the answer to fix a problem he will listen and pass it on.

Originally Posted by on_the_edge:
Why don't you go work for them again and fix all these problems since it seems you have the solution. All you do is bash USAC when you post my guess is you have burned a lot bridges in your day and can't even be considered for it anymore. I get tired of people whining about USAC this USAC that but no one seems to have a legitimate solution. Come up with a solidified solution to the problems even if it's just one of many they may have and submit to the USAC office. The best way to help USAC and the racers is to support them and bring a friend to the track. Not sure where you get 8 sprint car teams either last I checked they have never had a show with that low of a count at a sprint car event.

Again everyone just needs to support them and help them grow instead of bashing your not solving anything just hurting the sport more. Submit something to spridge if you have the answer to fix a problem he will listen and pass it on.

See that's where you are wrong, USAC would have been better off to keep the championships together.. Pavement and dirt all go for one champion. That is why they have 11 cars and which I bet there won't be 8 cars at the next pavement race

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Look at who was at the little 500 sprint car race. You can't be in two places at the same time.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Most of the midget guys running the little 500 are there because they or their car owners got out because of the impending death of pavement midget racing. Gone are owners like steve lewis, gone are sactions like namars and arca, gone are the drivers, like clauson, and usac will be too.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

The funny thing was is a lot of USAC officials were actually at the little 500.

I say move the night before the 500 to the newly paved speedrome, or move it to dirt somewhere in Indiana.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Back in the early 2 k's a high ranking Western States person told me that " Dirt is dead". No names here but he has been on the Hunt............for pavement cars ever since. Same time frame a person who was and is VERY connected with Turkey Night told me that "Turkey night will never go back to dirt" It did, and so did NASCAR. One of the reasons for the overall downturn in short track Motorsports is that, for the most part Racers and sanctioning bodies alike are very good with Math, but poor with arithmetic. We go out and win $200.00 and think we MADE $200.00. :10: The tracks and sanctioning bodies schedule too many events, and we don't know when to say when. As far as U$@C goes, they will be fine. They have a wonderfull cash cow called the Point Two Five Midgets. Not only do the parents (and children I believe???) have to join the association and pay an entry fee to compete but then are rewarded with...........TROPHYS!!! Many of us may not like 16th St., but we sure can't call 'em stupid.............

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by on_the_edge:
Why don't you go work for them again and fix all these problems since it seems you have the solution. All you do is bash USAC when you post my guess is you have burned a lot bridges in your day and can't even be considered for it anymore. I get tired of people whining about USAC this USAC that but no one seems to have a legitimate solution. Come up with a solidified solution to the problems even if it's just one of many they may have and submit to the USAC office. The best way to help USAC and the racers is to support them and bring a friend to the track. Not sure where you get 8 sprint car teams either last I checked they have never had a show with that low of a count at a sprint car event.

Again everyone just needs to support them and help them grow instead of bashing your not solving anything just hurting the sport more. Submit something to spridge if you have the answer to fix a problem he will listen and pass it on.

He did work for them when Midget racing was thriving.............. THATS HIS WHOLE POINT.

A lot of good people who worked to build it up in the 90's 00's got thrown away.

Whats left, A few success's USAC had very little in creating. Sprint Week was formed by promoters and ran several years before USAC. Midget Week is a spinnoff Four Crown, Earls Idea and was basically dead at one point itself. Can't get a full field of midgets now and used to get 40

Bellelville, Hanging on by a thread

Without Andy, Id think Silvercrown would be dead by next year.

Yeah, Kevin walked into a disaster of finance that was created by a series of screw ups. I don't know if the ship is righted or not but the product is going to hell in a hand basket. IT SHOULD BE WHERE TEAMS WANT TO RUN, NOT BEG TEAMS TO RUN IT. Free pit passes, free tires. PLEASE SHOW UP.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Some of you guys make me wonder why I have anything to do with auto racing at all.

Originally Posted by team3521:
Nobody asked you for your $0.02 worth. If you don't like reading these boards, then please! By all means! Excuse yourself from them!

Please check out this address. There are over 100,000 photos there and yet I rarely post any of them on any message board. Threads like this are the reason I "excuse" myself.

http://fscpictorial.smugmug.com/

Jim Fisher

Originally Posted by fish:
Some of you guys make me wonder why I have anything to do with auto racing at all.

My guess is because you get in FREE every race you attend!?!
Have you EVER paid to attend a race?
Would you have anything to do with the sport if you did have to pay to attend like the majority of us?

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by R A K:
My guess is because you get in FREE every race you attend!?!
Have you EVER paid to attend a race?
Would you have anything to do with the sport if you did have to pay to attend like the majority of us?

Yeah, it's because of the $30 pit pass I get for free that I attend the races.

I forgot to add. I put together a newspaper last night that reaches 20,000 people. It had all kinds of auto racing in it. And yes, I got paid for it.

How many times have you looked at your local paper and had a shot of a pavement sprint car on the front and another on an inside page doing a wheelie?

I attempt to promote auto racing to the stick and ball crowd. And do it all for thankless people like yourself.

Are you being KINGDOM-minded?

Originally Posted by fish:
Yeah, it's because of the $30 pit pass I get for free that I attend the races.

I forgot to add. I put together a newspaper last night that reaches 20,000 people. It had all kinds of auto racing in it. And yes, I got paid for it.

How many times have you looked at your local paper and had a shot of a pavement sprint car on the front and another on an inside page doing a wheelie?

I attempt to promote auto racing to the stick and ball crowd. And do it all for thankless people like yourself.

Are you being KINGDOM-minded?

Mr. Fisher, I stand corrected.
I had no idea the impact you have at promoting this sport.

Personally, I applaud ALL photographers and videographers. We ALL have a lot of great pics and vids at our disposal to view, for free. OWNING said pic or vid may be a different story, but we can almost always view them for free. Sidenote: I once entered the pits directly behind a reporter from a prominent open wheel magazine (about 4 yrs ago) that was mad that he had to pay to
get in. The lesson is, that they don't always get in for free. And even if they do, that's ALL they get. I imagine, photogs please chime in, that gas, wear and tear, hot dogs, and sodas are never covered. Would love to hear from Danny Burton, KO, Jim Morrison, Dave Merritt, Chris Pederson, Carey Aiken, Dean Mills, Sean Buckley, etc., and many, many more that I've never even heard of yet, to see what THEY spend to attend. There are also countless FANS that spend a LOT of money just to attend our races. It's quite humbling actually.....

Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
Personally, I applaud ALL photographers and videographers. We ALL have a lot of great pics and vids at our disposal to view, for free. OWNING said pic or vid may be a different story, but we can almost always view them for free. Sidenote: I once entered the pits directly behind a reporter from a prominent open wheel magazine (about 4 yrs ago) that was mad that he had to pay to
get in. The lesson is, that they don't always get in for free. And even if they do, that's ALL they get. I imagine, photogs please chime in, that gas, wear and tear, hot dogs, and sodas are never covered. Would love to hear from Danny Burton, KO, Jim Morrison, Dave Merritt, Chris Pederson, Carey Aiken, Dean Mills, Sean Buckley, etc., and many, many more that I've never even heard of yet, to see what THEY spend to attend. There are also countless FANS that spend a LOT of money just to attend our races. It's quite humbling actually.....

I've been shooting for over 18 years now and I pay my way in every race I go to. Sam, I believe what RAK is trying to illustrate is these guys (racers) strap in every race and they PAY to get in. I do believe you missed the point RAK was making though.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Perhaps I misunderstood post #20, to which my post was directed... I should have quoted post #20.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by on_the_edge:
Why don't you go work for them again and fix all these problems since it seems you have the solution. All you do is bash USAC when you post my guess is you have burned a lot bridges in your day and can't even be considered for it anymore. I get tired of people whining about USAC this USAC that but no one seems to have a legitimate solution. Come up with a solidified solution to the problems even if it's just one of many they may have and submit to the USAC office. The best way to help USAC and the racers is to support them and bring a friend to the track. Not sure where you get 8 sprint car teams either last I checked they have never had a show with that low of a count at a sprint car event.

Again everyone just needs to support them and help them grow instead of bashing your not solving anything just hurting the sport more. Submit something to spridge if you have the answer to fix a problem he will listen and pass it on.

1- Would never work for or around any organization that puts money in front of safety...

2- I did not have all the answers / nor do I claim to ever have.... I worked with a group of racers ..Men like Roger McClusky Mike Devin, Gary Sakola, John Capels, Greg Staubb, Arnold Edgar, Norm Shields, all racers....they were men of their word, men that had a passion for racing...men that ALWAYS put safety first...basically the key word is they were MEN!!!

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by ossuks:
1- Would never work for or around any organization that puts money in front of safety...

2- I did not have all the answers / nor do I claim to ever have.... I worked with a group of racers ..Men like Mike Devin, Gary Sakola, John Capels, Greg Staubb, Arnold Edgar, Norm Shields, all racers....they were men of their word, men that had a passion for racing...men that ALWAYS put safety first...basically the key word is they were MEN!!!

1) How does an organization make more money from allowing their cars to be unsafe?

2) These all sound like very admirable men. Men that would stand behind their word with their name.

Jim Fisher

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Never mentioned anything about unsafe cars....have no idea what you are reading ??? And everyone on this board that attended more than 1 USAC race knows my name!!.... When an organization lowers their medical requirements to save a few dollars that is sacrificing safety! When mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, ect, have trusted you to provide that safety!!!...I have been been a part of situations that a life was saved because the quality of medical personal was available....I refuse to be a part of a situation when that is not the case so there will be $700 more to put in the Detroit savings account!

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by ossuks:
And everyone on this board that attended more than 1 USAC race knows my name!!....

And all this time I have been going to the races,I have been trying to remember the drivers names. I dont know what your name is and I have been to many USAC races. Why dont you just use your own name like I do?

What does the other side of your record sound like? We know side one is "I hate USAC"

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Hes stated on here before his name...its Bill Carey. Definitely not afraid to tell it like it is

Originally Posted by ossuks:
1- Would never work for or around any organization that puts money in front of safety...

2- I did not have all the answers / nor do I claim to ever have.... I worked with a group of racers ..Men like Mike Devin, Gary Sakola, John Capels, Greg Staubb, Arnold Edgar, Norm Shields, all racers....they were men of their word, men that had a passion for racing...men that ALWAYS put safety first...basically the key word is they were MEN!!!

My point was why don't you be constructive in your comments about USAC instead of just telling everyone how much you dislike them. Everyone knows the pavement stuff is dying that's obvious, but what do you think will make it come back to life? Im still relatively young and would like to attend USAC races the rest of my life where you can see the best of the best. Im not a big pavement guy but most of the USAC guys have to run more than once discipline to do it for a living, so again tell us what you think they need to do to improve the sport? All this bashing does nothing but drive people away from the track because many people view this board and see what is being posted so that makes up their mind that they will not support this "dying" club. Do you think they have their hand in to many different things? Obviously you feel Kevin Miller has a lot to do with it. Can the pavement stuff rebound or is it beyond gone? Should they just do away with it and focus their time and money into the dirt series? Should they branch out more and gain the true national meaning? I just want to know what you think needs to be done in order to turn it around.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

1- You work a tire deal with a manufacturer, 1 compound RR and LR tire , let the tire company bid, that way there is some competition and the price will come down some.....tire prices are the key!! Hoosier gave a kick back to USAC to be the sole provider or tires and Gary Sakola gave that money back to the owners...where does that money go today ( see#4)!!

2- There are several motor choices under $35,000

3- Signed Honda as a sponsor but put 0 dollars back in the owners pocket? Where does that money go (see #4)

4- Cut the 1.5 million dollar USAC payroll, MSCS has one guy, MSR has one guy, POWER-I has 2 guys...

5- It cost around $2,000 to buy USAC memberships for a owner and his team members..Where does that money go (see #4)

6- Do away with entry fees, do POWER-I or WOO or MSCS 0r MSR charge an entry fee? USAC is the only organization in entertainment that charges its participants to participate!!!


7- Think about that again 1.5 million per year for payroll... LOOK IT UP, they are a non-profit organization and their payroll is public knowledge!! They pay the Sprint Car owner $10,000 to win the National Championship,,,Kevin make $250,000 per season!!!!

Yes, I have no respect for the debacle that is on west 16th street....Hopefully they will soon self implode and someone will come along and give the racers what they deserve.

All good points, but most do charge an entry fee, including power-I . It's 30 bucks to pull the pill.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Thank you, they must have started that practice since my retirement. Is there a fee for transponders?

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by vitron:
All good points, but most do charge an entry fee, including power-I . It's 30 bucks to pull the pill.

opps!

Wow....1.5 million payroll, that's a lotta money to organize races when owners and drivers seem to need every dollar they can get to survive...

Re: Night Before The 500
 

I'd love to see a breakdown of this 1.5M. That sounds like a number you made up & thought would get a reaction. And it looks like a pavement midget owner can license for $250. Same for driver. I guess maybe all your numbers are inflated. That's higher than it should be, but nowhere close to your numbers.

And it's rare to find any form of racing without an entry fee anymore. Sorry.

Don't take this as an approval of Kevin Miller. But your sour grapes and embellishment and probable made-up claims make it pretty understandable why he cut you.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

Originally Posted by quicktime3:
I'd love to see a breakdown of this 1.5M. That sounds like a number you made up & thought would get a reaction. And it looks like a pavement midget owner can license for $250. Same for driver. I guess maybe all your numbers are inflated. That's higher than it should be, but nowhere close to your numbers.

And it's rare to find any form of racing without an entry fee anymore. Sorry.

Don't take this as an approval of Kevin Miller. But your sour grapes and embellishment and probable made-up claims make it pretty understandable why he cut you.

When I left it was 1.2 million , est, raises and additional employees and it could be higher than ,,1.5?
Most drivers have a combo license that was $700 if it has not went up! $250 to register the car, then the owner and 3-5 crew members, throw in your wife, $2000 pretty close, some will spend more, few will spend less!!
There is no question why he cut me, I gave him a choice....told him I would not work any events without a ALS unit (advanced life support).

Originally Posted by ossuks:
1- You work a tire deal with a manufacturer, 1 compound RR and LR tire , let the tire company bid, that way there is some competition and the price will come down some.....tire prices are the key!! Hoosier gave a kick back to USAC to be the sole provider or tires and Gary Sakola gave that money back to the owners...where does that money go today ( see#4)!!

2- There are several motor choices under $35,000

3- Signed Honda as a sponsor but put 0 dollars back in the owners pocket? Where does that money go (see #4)

4- Cut the 1.5 million dollar USAC payroll, MSCS has one guy, MSR has one guy, POWER-I has 2 guys...

5- It cost around $2,000 to buy USAC memberships for a owner and his team members..Where does that money go (see #4)

6- Do away with entry fees, do POWER-I or WOO or MSCS 0r MSR charge an entry fee? USAC is the only organization in entertainment that charges its participants to participate!!!


7- Think about that again 1.5 million per year for payroll... LOOK IT UP, they are a non-profit organization and their payroll is public knowledge!! They pay the Sprint Car owner $10,000 to win the National Championship,,,Kevin make $250,000 per season!!!!

Yes, I have no respect for the debacle that is on west 16th street....Hopefully they will soon self implode and someone will come along and give the racers what they deserve.

Those are things that are constructive and make sense. Ideas are better than bashing and people from USAC read this board maybe those things will be taken back into consideration. Things I see that would help rebound the USAC name.

1. Larger purses for the drivers. Now drivers are having to work and race in order to survive in this world. 4,5, and 8k on fine to win but drivers need more incentive to show up.

2. A tire pricing program for their drivers. USAC should have enough pull with Hoosier tire to have set prices for USAC members.

3. Bring back the contingency prizes for every race now just certain ones throughout the year. Make the drivers advertise the USAC product sponsors. Getting product names on all the cars is a marketable technic for example the WOO make all drivers place all series sponsors on certain parts of the car.

4. Make sure all members are involved in changes within the organization. Give them a voice and know what is good for all not just what is thought to be good by some. Have a ballot vote on changes to be made and make sure everyone feels like their opinion matters.

5. The point about Kevin Miller making 250k a year seems excessive since I don't recall seeing him at the races interacting with the people who keep USAC going aka the drivers and owners. The people in charge need to be out there and listen to what the members are saying and just the fact then being there showing they care. Im sure he is busy and has a lot of office work, but needs to let his presence be known.

6. I feel like the pavement series is dead because it cost to much money and does not pay enough to run. Can they limit the amount of tires that can be used in a night to curb some cost?

7. Promotion, promotion, promotion. I can not express how important that is. Events have to be promoted heavily in order to get people excited to come to a USAC race to see the best drivers in the world. Teaming with Buckley and MavTv is one of the best moves I think they have made. National TV exposure is key in today's society. NASCAR racing is on the decline and to expensive to attend so let's wrangle that crowd and show them how exciting real racing is.

8. Curbing cost and teching cars after the race needs to become a thing again. Someone is always going to have more money and be fast but tech the cars to show the other competitors they don't have an unfair advantage like a larger motor, traction control, soaked tires, etc.

Just some things I think would help in the long run to keep the USAC brand alive and thriving for years to come.

Re: Night Before The 500
 

I provide the following information for fact purposes only. Not to support any particular view. It has been stated that they are a non-profit which is a relm I make my daily living in. So here is some publically available information that may or may not support some viewpoints.

According to their IRS form 990 for the fiscal year ended 11/30/2012

Total Revenue: $5,102,264

Total Salaries: $1,393,999

Total Expenses: $4,583,733

Revenue less expenses: $518,531

Total Net Assets: $2,249624

Reportable Compensation:

Kevin Miller $434,000
Jason Smith $95,000

Two main sources of revenue: (not a comprehensive list of all revenue sources)

Race Revenue: $3,013,203
Sponsorship Revenue: $1,530,502

*****All of this information was taken from a 29 page document that is public information.