USAC and Track Conditions
 

I just want it to be clear that USAC makes the call for water on track at The Action Track. I went home horribly dirty, but I was not as frustrated as some fans were. I don't want to throw USAC under the bus, but if you want to complain, email USAC, not THAT.

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Plus they have a forum on their website too.
They do read the boards,
:dologob:

www.usacracing.com

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USAC DID NOT PREPARE THE TRACK!:moon:

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They did not prepare it but told THAT not to do anything to it after Quilifying.And that came from people who worked on the track

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If your trying to save the track after qualifing it is probobly too late anyway. When I worked at Kokomo we watered everyday.

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So is USAC in charge of watering the tracks the week of Indiana Sprint Week or does the track owners take care of the tracks through the week. :confused:

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USAC did not want to run until the sun went down and the track got so dry in that hour plus downtime, that it could have used a pass or two of water.

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:moon:THEY WILL FIND OUT ITS NO EASY JOB TOO TAKE CARE OF A DIRT TRACK! ITS A LOT OF WORK! LOOK AT ELDORA DUST BOWL!:moon:

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WHO TOLD THEM FROM USAC?:moon:

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I dont know who told them but it was was probaly who ever was in charge.Who at USAC told Jiggs not to touch the track before the feature during sprint week.

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Looks like Jiggs has been catching hell for something that was taken out of his hands.
Thanks USAC

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I am sure the track owners or promoters and there staff take care of the preperation of the track befor the event. I do know from the ISW show at Gas City that Jiggs asked asked USAC top officals--do you want the track reworked--and the answer was-- NO. I was standing there when that question was asked. If you timed the B-mains that night you would of seen they were in the 12:6+ seconds and that is fast. So that call might of been just. But for the Action track and the dirt car race, there was no excust for that track and the water issue, USAC and or THAT. You both share in the effort to have a good track for the fans and racers. That much down time-put water on the track. It was evident after wheel packing the track was not watered enough from the bottom to the middle. I sat on the front streach and did not see that first car enter the first turn or exit the second turn. After 15 laps I moved to the outside of turn four to the wood tower with the same resaults. What little racing I saw in turn three and four was good, but it was only wourth fourth laps and I had enough of the Action Track. There was a good fan turn out, but there will probably be a lot of them that will not return to a dirt race because of the dusty conditions that night.

Phil Poor

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As far as the track prep goes at THAT, I know they have one small water track, one tractor, and the big water truck making laps around the track before 6pm. The track was packed down for almost all of it by hot laps session number two. Halfway through the feature, the track was pretty packed almost to the top in turns one and two. Despite the dust, I could see everything happening in my corning, but it made my pictures come out bad.

Also, anyone remember how dusty the track was last year? Oh wait, there was no races last year. I woudl rather have a dusty track than no track at all.

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Anyone know anything about this product? Curious if anyone has had any success with it or has even heard of it. Maybe it is worth a shot. Says you only need to apply it once a year, environmentally friendly, etc... I know nothing about it, just stumbled across it after hearing the dust complaints that are becoming so common these days.
David.

http://www.snisolutions.com/?id=products&cid=6

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I wonder if usac is telling promoters what to do to their race tracks, why they don't instruct more of them follow the direction they obviously gave to the Helfrich crew at Tri-State Speedway for ISW? It would only seem logical if they are in charge of track prep they would do the same bang up job everywhere that they do at the Class Track...:rolling

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So if Jiggs got in the water truck and started watering because it's whats best for his fans and track, What would USAC be able to do about it?

Sorry, I don't buy it. A show running till 11-11:30 on a friday or saturday night is not late. Midnight is getting toward the late end of things for a EVENT. A track should do whats best for the track and nobody else.

Chuck, who's been to several kings royals and other big events that pushed off at 1am and never heard a word of bitchin about it..

P.S. This isn't a shot at Jiggs. It's about doing the right thing vs a early ending

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I would imagine that if USAC or anybody else told Tom Helfrich that they, and not he, would be dictating track conditions at his track that he would clearly tell them that no, they are not. That boy worries himself sick over trying to get the track as right as possible.

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In defense to promotors and USAC: USAC and promotors work together, USAC will make suggestions and you can follow them or tell them no, either way its the promotors final decision. In the heat of the moment when a track could be worked on or keep the program running its a tuff call, damned if you do and damned if you don't. There are a million variables in track prep. Like i have said before.
We work on our track pretty much seven days a week to make it right. When racetime starts all you can do is sit back and hope it all comes together, No matter what you do, people will says its to wet or to dry. If you ever make everyone happy, say a prayer because you time is up.
Peace, Dave Rudisell

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I just know that I went to Bloomington last Fri day night for Indiana Speedweek and the track was dusty. The track was smooth and fast but boy did I eat a lot of dirt on the front strech. If I did not have glasses w/ me I would of not been able to watch that race. But I do understand your dammed if you do work on it and your dammed if you dont work on the track. I thought over all the track was fast but it was not the most enjoyable race to watch due to the dust. Reference the time, I also agree that 11-1130 is not late. Now when you are getting around 1am it is starting to become late.
My over all view about dirt track racing is (Don't go to a dirt track if you dont want to get dirty, stay at home.)
Bulldogs

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Yes, and they don't want the regular track crew to touch the tracks like they don't know what they are doing! They pulled the same stunt over at Kokomo for sprint week. I love it Stewart about put one of the usac guys on there ass, as iam sure they were just standing there once again not paying attention like normal! How about when Brad Sweet flipped that sunday at Kokomo during sprint week and the USAC crew took his helmet off and he had no idea where he was at the time. Just stating the facts that i have seen in the past few years with USAC, they need to get on the same page with our local tracks and take some lessons!!:checkered:

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As a refence point, when the USAC Sprints visited Hagerstown in June*, start of qualifying was delayed 45 min as they continued watering & running in the track until the sun dropped below the treeline. It made for a great track. The later finish, even on a weeknight, was well worth it (imho). :usacfan

With late sunsets in summer, somethin's gotta give - early finish or tacky track.

* edit: I think the delay was on the USAC night, but could have been for PA Sprintweek later in June. Either way, great track, both nights.

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Maybe USAC wants to turn Sprint Car racing into Drifting...LOL Kevin Miller has not impressed me at all. Yea I know I am a nobody but it is my "our" money that makes it all happen. I know nobody is perfect but I think USAC needs to work on a lot of things... I know if you don't like the show don't go... Well I love Sprint Cars and will go to any show i Can... I just hate to see them screw it up.

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I think one big factor in all the recent discussion about Indiana dirt track preparation that has been overlooked for the most part is this: Daylight Savings Time.
When I was growing up and going to the races, more often than not (depending on what track it was) a real dust-fest was the exception to the rule. Obviously things are different now. That extra hour of summer sun and wind really takes a toll on the track. And no one is starting an hour later to compensate for it, either. It wouldn't be from me, but I can hear the ******** now of they decided to do that...
Also, another factor is that nearly everybody screams the motor now. Back in the day, you could look at the tach in the pits when the car pulled in and see a number in the high 7000s. Now they turn them into the 9000s! That wheelspin with the wide tires is a factor in losing moisture as well.

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I'm sorry but I will not be back until Terre Haute gets straightened out. I'm really surprised the racing went on, luckily no one got seriously injured in the dust storm.
As a fan I don't like being held hostage, to wait for the racing action, sun or no sun(poor excuse).
While the so called pre-race festivities go on the frontstretch as the water evaporates from the track. I would hope Usac was not happy with this either. Plus this NOT being a weekend night letting it go on & on. I would say 85 % of the fans were from out of town & had to work the next day. I myself had a 90 mile drive. It would have been nice to be home early.
I'm making alternate Hut 100 plans now.
It's very unfortunate as this is the closest track to me & has such a rich tradition.
I was really excited about the new promoters re-opening & bringing it back. Oh well, I guarantee I wasn't the only one saying they wouldn't be back. What a shame!

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Unless you were driving you really dont know if this was a "poor excuse" or not. At the MSCS show earlier this year they had a big crash at the end of the backstretch because they couldnt see because of the sun. If you dont want to come back thats your business but dont compromise the safety of the drivers because YOU dont want to wait. Furthermore why dont you go over the week before the next race and help get the track in shape. if you think that throwing a little water on the track the day of the race or worse yet during the program is all you need to have a "dust free" track then it shows how much you dont know about dirt tracks.

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Consider it is a big half mile track, takes a bit more effort to prepare one of those than your usual 1/4 mile track. Youre going to have dust. We tried, and trust me no one was happy about the dust. It was being talked about between the promoters

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As one who attended all the ISW races and was generally there pretty early in the day, I will say that ALL the promoters were out watering the track and working on it on race day. Before hotlaps each night I venture onto the track with a screwdriver and probe the track to see how tightly it is packed and how deep it is watered.

I can state that some of the ISW tracks were well watered but so tightly packed that they blew off the top layer of moisture and became hard, smooth and, yes, dusty pretty quickly. Other tracks which were not compacted quite as tightly were less smooth but remained relatively dust free. If the track surface is too tightly packed it does not matter how much water you put on it or how often you rework it the cars will blow off the top layer and it will be just as dusty in a number of laps.

Throw in the type of clay/dirt characteristics that make up the track surface and the promoter will never be able to prepare a smooth, dust minimizing track on which to race.

As a competitor I absolutely hate when the promoter reworks the track during the event. I make a SWAG for the feature setup based upon what the track conditions were in the last event I raced. I then watch all the intervening events to see how and at what rate the track is changing. When a track is reworked most of that goes right out the window and the mechanic is left to guess about the feature setup.

Perhaps it was the direction the wind was blowing but I thought that Bloomington, Kokomo and Lawrenceburg had some of more dust free surfaces. I know they reworked the track right before the feature at Haubstadt but it was very dusty in the pit stands and visibility was not good. Kamp and Gas City both had their problems.

Personally I would like to see a race on a slightly rough, relatively dust free track than a bone smooth dust bowl. Mot importantly I would like to put on a good race so the paying customer has an enjoyable evening and gets their money’s worth!!

JMO

Rob Hoffman

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Nice post from someone in the know.

I can tell you that I appreciate all the people on that side of the catch fence making an effort to put on a good event for the people on this side of the catch fence. It doesn't always work out as planned, but that gives everybody someting to shoot for the next time.

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Yea, what Rob Hoffman said, and now you know the rest of the story.:respect:

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Maybe go back to the old days of digging up the track, Water the ***** out of it and let the sprint cars pack it and not the big wheeler tracks have now. Pack it too tight and water just stays on top until it turns to dust.
The less tightly packed the deeper the water can go.

Just a thought.
:dologob:

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Get a grip red asses. :moon: Geez. :headbang The new group has had less than 5 races at the facility. Give them a chance, they will get it right. I'm sure some of you experts would rather have the place sit idle with weeds growing through the track than have a dusty track with a NEW group that is learning. It's a wonder anybody wants to promote anymore. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it with some of you coming to the races.

As for the sun issue. I'll wait as long as I have to if the drivers can't see. I've been at a race track when somebody was killed, I don't want to ever see that again. Especially if the show is moved up because some jackass is pissed because he got home a little late. Stay home.

I hope some of you people on here aren't this angry in regular life.

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Ya know, I really should complain about something. But my family is safe and healthy, we have plenty of food to eat, I can adjust the thermostat so I'm comfortable at home and if I want to I can go to a race tomorrow night. If I do go to a race tomorrow and get dusty, I've got hot water to shower with and if it runs a little late, I can take a nap Sunday afternoon.
So it seems I just can't think of anything to gripe about. I'm sorry.

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Ding ding ding. We have a winnah ri-cheer!

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Please also consider that the track guy for DHK has never prepared a track before this year. I for one think he is doing a amazing job. I have only been to races at THAT but this last race was the fastest I have seen the track packed in. It was 1/2 way packed solid in turns 1 and 2 by hot laps session two.

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I think DO is right! Get rid of the huge wheel packers and let the cars pack it in. If it digs and ruts up a little, so be it!

PS - The hypocrisy of the "respected elder members" of this board is astounding. They are the first ones to make a hero out of a poster who posts something they agree with, no matter how asinine, yet are also the first to berate and make a black sheep out of someone who has the audacity to disagree with them or tell it like it is in a fashion they don't approve of. It gets old, but I come here for information not found elsewhere so I have to put up with it. It sucks.

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Amen DO..... plus everybody should retire the Sheeps Foot. If Manzy and Perris can have a pretty racey track 90% of the time there is no reason they can not do the same here. I have seen Manzy back in the day work the track for a week before the western world with little rain or humidity....and have a pretty good track.

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Thanks Gregg, but I was just basically paraphrasing what you posted the other day. I just refuse to be miserable (and I TRY not to make anyone else miserable either, although my wife may dispute that.:O:)

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:thumb:applaud::thumb:applaud:
I totally agree.

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I agree with D.O. and Stagger. Water the pi$$ out of the tracks during the week and if it's that greasy give the cars a second set of hot laps. Have the cars pack the track and yes all sheeps foot monstrosity's should be sitting at the bottom of a lake somewhere. :wink