USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Honda HPD midget engine update

The engine will be available starting May 1st or sooner.

HPD engineers and USAC have worked thru the winter to get the mapping correct on the ECU for the ethanol fuel and to sort out the final wiring harness and designs. There was time spent on the dyno as well as track testing in North Carolina as the weather permitted. Over 700 laps have been run with this engine and multiple times on the chassis dyno.

The first 10 engines will be offered for $9,995.00 and then the price will go to $10,995. The exhaust and fuel pump are purchased separately from USAC. The current prototype exhaust is stainless steel and we are working with Waterman Pumps to spec a less expensive quality fuel pump (electric).

This engine includes a custom oil pan, custom intake manifold, barnes dry sump oil system, wiring harness, ECU, injectors and fuel rail, air filter, throttle pedal, power steering pump, mini alternator, bell housing, clutch and flywheel.

It will bolt right up to an existing focus motor plate and use the existing throw out assembly and input shaft.

Since taking over this project in October every part needed designed, tested and sourced out. Solid Model drawing were made for every part, patterns fabricated and prototype parts fabricated. We have been very lucky to have some great people in the Indianapolis area help to make this all possible. Thanks to Danny Drinan and Jeremy Warren for working with USAC and myself in getting this project professionally engineered. The engines will be assembled in Brownsburg Indiana at RPN engines by Andy Nock. The wiring harness will come from BMRS - Wade Brown and his crew.

The stock of parts to build the first batch of engines in addition to stocking parts for sale is nearly complete and there are currently 7 engines in stock in Brownsburg waiting to have the parts bolted on. We have worked very hard to make these parts for use in this spec engine and to also allow them to be used in further midget engine development which will be ongoing to help offer an alternative for the midget racers. We have worked very hard to keep the costs down without taking away from the durability of each component.

The engine puts out 230 HP unrestricted and 170 restricted to run with the focus engines. And working on some very interesting ideas that could give a boost to midget racing in the future.

Rebuilding of the series is ongoing and will take some time to fix many of the issues that developed over the past several years. A challenge that I enjoy (most of the time).

If you have any questions please give me a call.

Eric Rankine
HPD Midget & Honda Pavement Midget Director of Competition
eric@usacracing.com
317-771-6596

Good news to read. I gotta ask as it's noted in the included parts. Is this engine drive by wire as the throttle pedal is part of the package? Thanks

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Pat

Wonder if they could speed up the rebuilding process if they made the rules less stringent and opened it up to more people and engines to develop? We call that COMPETITION> then only the good would survive. Or will all we have to do is go to the bank borrow a lttle money and go down to the Honda dealership and buy a brand new ready to race Honda Midget race car. Kinda of like the "Honda kick and go."

I once took a course that taught the student how to write up specifications for a machinery bid so that they excluded all but the piece of machinery they wanted by making the specifications so striengent that only what they wanted to buy meet the specs.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

I think the only way (or at least the easiest way) to keep a "spec" motor "spec" is to single-source it the way they're doing, that way you eliminate all the cries of "He's cheating" without cutting windows in everybody's crankcases (sorry Dad :D). Of course, then you open yourself up to cries of "keeping it all for themselves". Somebody's going to complain, no matter what.
Fortunately, there are a number of ways that are currently being attempted to make Midget racing more available to the lesser-funded; if you don't like HPD, you can try IMRA, or the Illini Series or Montpelier (my choice); we'll see how Gas City pans out. On the higher end, POWRI is making inroads into our area via cooperation with USAC, they're trying to help revive the Badger series and looks like things are growing in Oklahoma too. Wayne's trying to grow the sport in Florida; to me it looks like good things are happening for the little cars...

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

PATRICK, Yes the throttle is drive by wire. It is a complete EFI system with a throttle body.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
I think the only way (or at least the easiest way) to keep a "spec" motor "spec" is to single-source it the way they're doing, that way you eliminate all the cries of "He's cheating" without cutting windows in everybody's crankcases (sorry Dad :D). Of course, then you open yourself up to cries of "keeping it all for themselves". Somebody's going to complain, no matter what.
Fortunately, there are a number of ways that are currently being attempted to make Midget racing more available to the lesser-funded; if you don't like HPD, you can try IMRA, or the Illini Series or Montpelier (my choice); we'll see how Gas City pans out. On the higher end, POWRI is making inroads into our area via cooperation with USAC, they're trying to help revive the Badger series and looks like things are growing in Oklahoma too. Wayne's trying to grow the sport in Florida; to me it looks like good things are happening for the little cars...

Pat

My mind is to inquisitive for a spec series. Racers could Save a lot of money by just going to a rental go kart track like Steve Johnson's if he is still there. They set their motors with a tac so everybody comes up to the same speed.

Better yet they make a portable chassis dyno now. The group could buy one, take it to the track, set it at a predetermined load and adjust all the engines to a maximum rpm at that load. Seal and tag the motor and go racing. Do this before every race. The perfect spec racer.:D

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Sounds like a pretty reasonably priced deal.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

$11000 for an engine with 230 horsepower? Really?

Originally Posted by SteveB31:
$11000 for an engine with 230 horsepower? Really?

I am not one that is usually negative, but I thought the same thing. Then if you run it with existing focus cars you have a 170 hp engine for $11,000. Seems like alot money for the little bit of horsepower. We had a competitive full midget motor that got 340 hp for $12,500.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Right direction, but yes, still pricey. I built a turbo 4 cylinder that pushes 400hp for about $4,500.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

One thing to remember is that if this engine performs like the focus did it will run for year after year with no rebuild costs during that time. Some of the previous focus engines have run for over 6 years with no additional costs.

Here are a couple of pics of the Intake and Oil Pan to show the detail and fought that went into these pieces. I will continue to add pics of each component and the complete engine package.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Just happen to know someone who does some pretty nice intake work that works way too cheap.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

sprintcar

You surprised me a bit. I like the little Honda motor. The name says it all, you are starting with a quality piece of equipment. I don't like spec racing, but that is me. Maybe USAC will see the value in what you are doing and perhaps lax the rules to allow this type of motor to race National Midgets.
It will make the old 2 valve motors obsolete the first year, but what the heck, the money the racer saves the first year and each subsequent year of racing will more than make up for so many boat anchors being created in one year.

There are already a bunch of 400+ horsepower Honda's right now out there being driven on the public roads every day. Now we need to start racing them.

You do good work my friend.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

I just want to add that even though I think it is a little pricey, I think the platform/concept is good. I have been a strong proponent of the focus program because I think it is necessary for midget racing to grow, same as the other sportsman series out there.

I acknowledge the fact that there is cost savings in the longevity of the engine with no rebuilds needed for multiple seasons.

Having said that, I have been one that doesnt feel engines are the primary issue. To me the lack of midget racing as a weekly class is a much bigger issue. Montplier (sorry for spelling) type programs are needed. Even with a $10,000, 400 hp motor that would last four seasons before rebuild still would be hard to get new teams because of the amount of travel needed due to the limited racing options. Giving more local racing options for midgets would have a far greater impact then cheap engines.

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Dry sump put them over the top among other things. Its why I chose the ECOtec over the Honda - the Chevy runs the pump off the front of the engine so you have the ability to just make a pan for it and run the stock pump (for a focus-level motor). This saves a ton of money, and was a big reason why the Focus was so cheap. And no, at this level you don't gain ANYTHING by dry sumping. Especially when you look at how these engines are lubricated, the crank is already out of the oil. All of this was explained to them, but they get real hard of hearing when a big check gets written. FYI guys are building 'focus - level' ECOtecs for only a few thousand bucks all the time, right now. They run for years, make nice power and require zero upkeep. But 'no check - no play' :32:

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Originally Posted by sprintcar39:
One thing to remember is that if this engine performs like the focus did it will run for year after year with no rebuild costs during that time. Some of the previous focus engines have run for over 6 years with no additional costs.

Here are a couple of pics of the Intake and Oil Pan to show the detail and fought that went into these pieces. I will continue to add pics of each component and the complete engine package.

The pan is cute. Should cast it though (no leaks / cracks). That manifold is CRAP - didn't anybody explain how to do a proper intake manifold for EFI to these guys? They will be 'upgrading' the intake system ($$$$) if they want to make power. Sorry to throw cold water but OMG......

Re: USAC HPD K24 Honda midget "thingy"
 

Revolution

The Honda's are still anemic and way under powered, for the amount of horsepower that could be produced by them or the echo tec for that matter. To produce 400+ horsepower the throttle body would have to be enormous. This same engine with a good individual runner injection I would guess could get the horsepower up to around 300+ with very little additional development. We would then be getting very close to the horsepower of the National Midgets.

The Honda is a very nice motor, we would all have to agree. It is a bit pricey, they would be very hard to find in a salvage yard and would still be expensive. The echo tec on the other hand are a dime a dozen. They have been designed quite well and the head seems to have a lot of room left for improvement.

Like I said in another post. Any body that thinks a spec class is the best way to keep costs of racing down probably worked in the Federal Government in a past life time. Midgets were pretty affordable in the 60's and 70's. Then for some reason Legal, greed, or whatever the racing clubs began to make larger and larger rule books with more and more well meaning rules. Every time they made a new rule the racer is the one who paid for it out of their wallet to keep racing. The company's that supported racing did not protest much because every rule meant more money in their coffers. So now we are left with a dying National Midget Division, a few off shoots that have somewhat similar rules, but all much to comprehensive to keep guys like me from moving up.

Now the 1000cc Midget Division (Mini Sprints) is faced with the same problem. Well meaning people in the spirit of making the sport they love better are starting to make rules that will no doubt cause the cost of racing to go up and in fact hurt the thing they are trying so hard to help. When rules become so prohibitive that they prevent experimentation with different power plants and basic improvements for the power plants that are currently now in use. This means that experimentation is curtailed and experimentation is what racing is all about to me and many other people. If a particular engine has well documented oiling problems and some of our's do. A dry sump system might just save a few motors and cash for the racer in the long run. If I choose to experiment to make something better and I do make it better then I'm a hero. If it doesn't work out then I am a Zero>>>SO.

Dual overhead cams and 4 valve heads have been on the market for well over 20 years now. Why do all of the large midget racing organizations make their rules so stringent that they prevent these motors from racing under equal terms with purpose built antique 2 valve designs.

Both Revolution and Sprintcar are on to something. Not to allow them to develop their product to it's fullest potential is asinine.

Honest Dad himself:6::6: