Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Last night in a heat race Jon Memmer took a bad flip down the backstretch which of course brought out a RED :redflag:. All the cars stopped on the track per Red flag rules, except Dave Darland who was involved in the crash and had a flat left rear tire. He completly disregards the Red flag:redflag:, drives completely around the track, almost hitting the ambulance that was trying to come on the track to get to the accident, then drives to the push off shoot, does a 360 and drives into the entrance to the speedway and finally stops his car. Then the Tri State Speedway official opens the gate and lets Darlands crew put a new tire on the car while under a closed red flag. Then they let him push back on to the track and restart like nothing ever happened.
My question is this, who's responsibilty was it to penalize Darland for not stopping on the red? USAC or Tri State Speedway?
I wonder how they explained that to all those 1st time visitors that were there last night who were sponsoring the event.
Unbelievable ..........
At least earlier this year at Bloomington when they told all the drivers NO HOT LAPPING during the line up for heat races or you will be put on the tail, they upheld their RULE and put Darland and Memmer on the tail of their heats for doing just that. Darland got mad, stopped on the front stretch and the flagman told him where to go. He loaded his car up and went home.
Thank you Mike Miles and Bloomington Speedway for upholding your rules.:respect:

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

If indeed your account is factual, that is very interesting.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

I would recommend taking this guy's rant with a grain of salt. He has an agenda. The following is an exchange involving his recent post on another thread:
Originally Posted by Motormasher
Think they will give this Indiana Sprint Week Championsip to Dave Darland this year like they did last year when he DID'NT make the show at Haubstadt but let him start the feature anyway on a "provisional"?
Jon Stanbrough was the rightfull winner last year. Hate to see him out of the race on last lap
Can anybody report what happened on last lap when Levi got upside down?
.
His post prompted this response by a respected long-time IOWer:
Last time I saw you "race" was at Mt. Vernon, in a MSCS event.. You almost got lapped, IN A HEAT RACE!!
Dave Darland is a three-division champion. He's gracious driver who always has time for his fans. And he's been an example of sportsmanship to young drivers and young race fans, alike. I don't know what your obsession with him is, but you don't even rate to be DD's helmet caddy. He's an Indiana icon and you're somewhere around the same age and hardly anybody even knows that you exist.
It was a technicality in the ISW rules that prevented Jon from winning last year's points. It wasn't a conspiracy. It wasn't fixed. They didn't intentionally "give" it to Dave. It just happened and USAC has repaired that part of the ISW points. And guess who's leading the ISW points, again this year?

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Thats right, Jerry Shaw turned the "fact" that I posted about Darland not making the show at Haubstadt last year, into a personal attack on me.
You show the same class he does Pat.
I stated the "fact" and exactly what happened.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

What about in the feature,when they had the early crash and all cars were restarted or pushed to the work area,except Dustin Morgan, his crew never even had a chance to look at his car to see if they could fix it and still set in the infield on the next caution but other cars were able to come back out laps down

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

The facts are just as stated by Motormasher, Darland went from mid back stretch around 3&4, down front stretch under the hanging red flag, pastg first turn track exit where he stopped the ambulance momentarily, then around 1&2, then did a 360 and pulled into the second turn track entrance. He did go slowly and cautiously the entire time, but he did it nonetheless. I remember talking with my wife and saying DD is going to get penalized before he had even reached the flagstand, everyone else had been stopped several seconds. I've always loved watching Darland race and admire him greatly, but on this night it was obvious USAC turned their heads on this one because of the high stakes. I think all 4-5 guys last in the hunt for the sprintweek championship would have been treated like DD was, but if any of the others racing had did that, they would have been finished for that heat, and rightly so.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

So everything i have read so far states Dave was in the wrong here?

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by Tim Watson:
So everything i have read so far states Dave was in the wrong here?

I'm just a fan in the stands but that's the way I seen it also. JMO

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by Barney:
I'm just a fan in the stands but that's the way I seen it also. JMO

Thank you Barney, i appreciate your honest opinion. I am a DD fan and i wasn't at the race so i like to follow the happenings of my favorite drivers and i can read your comments without blasting back like you see happen on here a lot of other times. Thanks again Barney. :thumb

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Thats what happened. DD did have to tag the tail of the heat for working under a closed red. But it did not matter much since a coulple of cars didn't restart. I too am a DD fan, but it was odd watching him make his way almost completely around the track while the red was out.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by Tim Watson:
Thank you Barney, i appreciate your honest opinion. I am a DD fan and i wasn't at the race so i like to follow the happenings of my favorite drivers and i can read your comments without blasting back like you see happen on here a lot of other times. Thanks again Barney. :thumb

:thumb:thumb:thumb

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by jjsprt92:
What about in the feature,when they had the early crash and all cars were restarted or pushed to the work area,except Dustin Morgan, his crew never even had a chance to look at his car to see if they could fix it and still set in the infield on the next caution but other cars were able to come back out laps down

We were wondering the same thing about why dustin wasnt pushed off the track...his crew was waiting in the work area for the car so they could fix it but he was the last car to be put on the hook and was never pushed up there...all that was wrong with his car was a flat right rear and his crew could have fixed it before the green.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

I am curious as to why anyone would believe that the track has the responsibility to issue any penalty here, if warranted?

Tommy Helfrich is simply the promoter of the Sprintweek event, not an official. Once the event begins all calls or decisions regarding USAC races are the responsibility of USAC officials.

Think of it like a baseball umpire, once the teams take the field all the calls are in their hands.

I did not see the incident so I cannot comment about any penalty but if one was warranted it would no havecome from the track or the promoter.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Many of us on the backstretch did not get a good view of the Memmer incident because Speedway Man was throwing tee shirts into the crowd, causing a large number of people to jump up and obscure the sight line. I've never seen tee shirts thrown into the crowd during the time racing action was occurring on the track before. Bad decision!
On the other end of the spectrum, the Sandy's Pizza 50/50 girls sat down while the racing action was going on, so as not to obscure the view of the races. Kudos for being so thoughtful! :thumb

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by ronmil:
Many of us on the backstretch did not get a good view of the Memmer incident because Speedway Man was throwing tee shirts into the crowd, causing a large number of people to jump up and obscure the sight line. I've never seen tee shirts thrown into the crowd during the time racing action was occurring on the track before. Bad decision!
On the other end of the spectrum, the Sandy's Pizza 50/50 girls sat down while the racing action was going on, so as not to obscure the view of the races. Kudos for being so thoughtful! :thumb

I never have understood why they allow speedwayblockerman to go through the crowd during the races, I understand during downtime, I wasnt going to bring it up due to the fact everyone here knows how I truly dislike Speedwayblockerman, but during a heat race last night I got nailed in the face by a sucker I'm guessing was headed behind me somewhere, when I looked to see where it came from, Speedwayblockerman was like 5 to 6 rows in front of me and throwing behind me, nary an apology, a wave, nod nothing. The 50/50 girls are always very considerate, either grabbing an empty seat, or ducking down on the stairs. I have kids, I understand the concept, I don't like him, he is rude!

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

:respect:Maybe this is YYY the good lord didn't let dave win the championship, or maybe it was the set up, because Dave can drive.:respect:

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

For those who are not so good at geometry, Dave made a right turn and did a 180 to get into the pits. As if that matters.

While it may not be right, that is basically the precedent. No one would have been penalized for doing the very same thing because it is accepted practice. Darland even had to negotiate cars still moving on the front stretch, so it's not as if everyone stopped immediately and he kept going. And the ruling simply put him to the tail for the restart, since he visited the work area under red.

I sure wish Mr. Scott would lose this hard-on for Dave Darland. He's obviously not going to be happy until Double D is banished from racing...

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

The Tri-State Speedway rule in the recent past is that ALL CARS must stop within a quarter lap of the red coming out and they enforce it if they are running the show. It is not accepted practice at a show that the track runs.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by Flatrightrear:
The Tri-State Speedway rule in the recent past is that ALL CARS must stop within a quarter lap of the red coming out and they enforce it if they are running the show. It is not accepted practice at a show that the track runs.

1/4 of a lap is extremely short to stop a full up sprint car. Hell it'd be hard to stop a Fidget in a 1/4 lap. I know the rule at the micro tracks is, stop when the red flag comes out in an "orderly" fashion, but do not pass the accident scene. As in don't slam on the F*ing brakes because the red is out. Slow it up, and don't pass the scene after the red is out.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

A little off topic... but since flags were brought up...

Wasn't it nice having a FLAGMAN finally?:headbang Haubstadt was the only race during the entire sprintweek that USAC felt the need to utilize a flagman that knew what he was doing. I'm thinkin' the kid from Lawrenceburg would have been better in the 'stand...:doh:

Tom Hansing: :applaud:

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by Midget82:
A little off topic... but since flags were brought up...

Wasn't it nice having a FLAGMAN finally?:headbang Haubstadt was the only race during the entire sprintweek that USAC felt the need to utilize a flagman that knew what he was doing. I'm thinkin' the kid from Lawrenceburg would have been better in the 'stand...:doh:

Tom Hansing: :applaud:

Tom is the consummate professional. I have noticed that most of the time that Tom is the USAC flagman, he stays in the flagstand and helps the local flagman during the running of the support series. Others rarely do.

As for the "other" flagman, apparently he feels he IS the show. Kind of sad I guess, but most people could care less about his antics.:thumbsdown:

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
I sure wish Mr. Scott would lose this @#$%&?+ for Dave Darland. He's obviously not going to be happy until Double D is banished from racing...

Spridge, excuse me, I mean Kirk has "masher" figured out!

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Not only is there the 1/4 lap rule (which is stated but consideration is given, drivers are told to stop immediately) but drivers are told in meetings at MSCS events that they are absolutley to keep the lane open so the ambulance may enter. Mr. Darland apparently was more concerned with getting his tire changed than allowing the ambulance easy access to the track. I have lost a lot of respect for this driver - the red comes on for a reason - and tire changes take seconds he wasn't going to lose anything by waiting the same amount of time as the other drivers.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Another incident involved Kyle Cummins in the B main. Running 3rd in a transfer spot, he packed the right rear full of mud. On a yellow, he immediately pulled off and the problem resolved. Still waiting for a push, USAC closed the door on him. I bet a USAC regular would not have been treated the same way. Kyle, his sponsers and his fans deserved better.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by wideopenwheelie:
Not only is there the 1/4 lap rule (which is stated but consideration is given, drivers are told to stop immediately) but drivers are told in meetings at MSCS events ..............

It was a USAC (United States Auto Club) sanctioned event. MSCS rules/drivers meetings, etc. did not govern this event.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by 3Cfan:
Still waiting for a push, USAC closed the door on him. I bet a USAC regular would not have been treated the same way. Kyle, his sponsers and his fans deserved better.

I believe the same thing happened to Cottle in the feature.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

I think the flagman at Lawrenceburg did a great job and he is part of the show.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

Originally Posted by thebus79h:
1/4 of a lap is extremely short to stop a full up sprint car. Hell it'd be hard to stop a Fidget in a 1/4 lap. I know the rule at the micro tracks is, stop when the red flag comes out in an "orderly" fashion, but do not pass the accident scene. As in don't slam on the F*ing brakes because the red is out. Slow it up, and don't pass the scene after the red is out.

Originally Posted by Pat O'Connor Fan:
It was a USAC (United States Auto Club) sanctioned event. MSCS rules/drivers meetings, etc. did not govern this event.

Gee thanks - I know that Captain Obvious - but I was replying to the poster that stated at regular Tri-State shows the "stop on red rule" is enforced - and it's obvious that USAC picks and chooses when they decided to enforce their own rules.

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

So, if I am understanding this correctly, it is ok to continue driving under red flag conditions so long as you do so in a cautious matter? If that's the case, then why even throw the red....kind of makes it immaterial doesn't it?

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

The same thing happened at Kokomo in the sunday race when Robert Ballou had a right rear full of mud and there was a red flag for Jon Stanbrough flipping on the white flag lap. Dave Darland was running second to Ballou but USAC did not open the gates for this red flag. But one lap into the feature when Brad Sweet flipped USAC opened the gates this time with only one lap in. Its seems to me you would need to work on your car 28 laps in to the feature for saftey instead of just one. Looked pretty fishy to me.:angry-smiley-007::kookoo

Re: Red Flag...USAC or Tri State Speedway?
 

USAC has said that they don't want to open any reds this year. The red was opened at Kokomo because of the expected long clean-up due to a fuel spill. They probably shouldn't have opened it, but that's hindsight.

Cummins was not ready to push. The car has to be in the chute with no one working on it in order to re-join the race. Someone was still tinkering with the mud-cover or something on Cummins' car when they went one to go. Cottle's, on the other hand, was a pretty close call...