chassis setups
 

Hello All,

I am looking for some good old fashioned, honest, down to earth advice on setups.
Bailey 1000 cc For example the car is totally stripped ready for powder coating and
now we are putting it back together. What I want is a step by step procedure of putting it back together
and establishing a base line setup. Include all info / car on jacks or ground/adjusting ride heights, blocking squaring , scaling , tire pressures , stagger
Bird cage timing , shock numbers,dry or wet track conditions. Remember small things that you take for granted others are not aware of. This will most likely take more than one evening to prepare. There are a lot of different techniques to accomplish the end product.
I would like to hear from all. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other racers who would be very interested in this topic. Lets all get together on this and help everyone
especially the new racers out there. It's a shame to waste all the talent and experience locked away in so many of your minds. I look forward to hearing from you and a sincere thank you from myself
and the millions of racers who will read this.
Merry Christmas to all.

Re: chassis setups
 

Originally Posted by diana:
Hello All,

I am looking for some good old fashioned, honest, down to earth advice on setups.
Bailey 1000 cc For example the car is totally stripped ready for powder coating and
now we are putting it back together. What I want is a step by step procedure of putting it back together
and establishing a base line setup. Include all info / car on jacks or ground/adjusting ride heights, blocking squaring , scaling , tire pressures , stagger
Bird cage timing , shock numbers,dry or wet track conditions. Remember small things that you take for granted others are not aware of. This will most likely take more than one evening to prepare. There are a lot of different techniques to accomplish the end product.
I would like to hear from all. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other racers who would be very interested in this topic. Lets all get together on this and help everyone
especially the new racers out there. It's a shame to waste all the talent and experience locked away in so many of your minds. I look forward to hearing from you and a sincere thank you from myself
and the millions of racers who will read this.
Merry Christmas to all.

diana

Call Floyd Bailey at Bailey chassis co. in Hendersonville Tenn. (1-615-822-7041) Floyd is a good guy and if you want info why not go to the the guy that built it.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

like I mentioned , there are many different techniques and theories out there. On way might work for one and not the other.

Re: chassis setups
 

Originally Posted by diana:
like I mentioned , there are many different techniques and theories out there. On way might work for one and not the other.

diana

There is no magic wand, wish there was. You start with a basic set up, usually supplied by your chassis builder. From there you work on tightening or loosening the car to match the driver. It is very possible to have 4 identical cars setting side by side with 4 different set up's that work equally well, because of driver preference.

Steve Smith has an excellent book out on set up for either for midgets or mini sprints.

The more you race the easier it gets. Goes back to one of my favorite sayings seat time seat time seat time. The same thing hold true for mechanics.

Race car set up and handling would require not just a book but volumes of books to cover everything. There are many ways to accomplish the same results and they all work just fine you just got to use what works for you.

Find your hot dog and ask them questions, most of them will be glad to help you along. But like I said ask 4 different people and you will probably get 4 different responses.

Setup is a piece of cake (DEVILS FOOD).;)

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: chassis setups
 

Originally Posted by diana:
Hello All,

I am looking for some good old fashioned, honest, down to earth advice on setups.
Bailey 1000 cc For example the car is totally stripped ready for powder coating and
now we are putting it back together. What I want is a step by step procedure of putting it back together
and establishing a base line setup. Include all info / car on jacks or ground/adjusting ride heights, blocking squaring , scaling , tire pressures , stagger
Bird cage timing , shock numbers,dry or wet track conditions. Remember small things that you take for granted others are not aware of. This will most likely take more than one evening to prepare. There are a lot of different techniques to accomplish the end product.
I would like to hear from all. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other racers who would be very interested in this topic. Lets all get together on this and help everyone
especially the new racers out there. It's a shame to waste all the talent and experience locked away in so many of your minds. I look forward to hearing from you and a sincere thank you from myself
and the millions of racers who will read this.
Merry Christmas to all.

Not to be offensive, it is hard tho, but my advice is that most of the nuts are Right Hand, you, I'm not so sure about! Webster didn't put enough words in his book, to cover the "dumb" question you have asked, you my friend are unbelievable! Bob!:deadhorse:

Re: chassis setups
 

I think writing the definitive manual on Mini Sprint setup, and then transferring that to successful application on one specific race car could potentially be more difficult (and painful) than learning to play bagpipes from a book...

Seriously though, the best stuff out there is from Steve Smith Autosports; I still refer to my old Sprint Car book written by Don Alexander in the 80's and the basics still hold true. While I've been rebuilding my Doemelt/Bailey/Leader's Edge-GSXR1127 Mongrel I'll bet I've watched Jimmy Sills' Midget Setup DVD at least half a dozen times so far and learned something every time, but the REAL learning will come every time I get out on the track and come back, tweak something (put it in the log) try it, repeat, repeat, repeat...

You said it yourself; one way might work for one and not the other. The only way you find that out for yourself is to get out there and see what happens when you roll off the throttle, stab the brake, steer just a tad to the right and squeeze that right foot back down. To me, figuring out how to make the end product a thing of beauty is one of the great joys in life.
Good luck. But most importantly, have fun!

Re: chassis setups
 

Jim, I think the bag-pipe book would be possible, even for someone who had never even seen one, there are a lot less things to be done, maybe not at one time, but it is pretty simple, blow in the bag, squeeze the bag, and put fingers over the notes, doesn't make any difference in which order, you'll eventually be able to play the scale, now, wasn't that simple? Now, try to explain the "mechanics", if you will, of the order in which to assemble a race car, as well as pick out a color before you start, then, make all the thousands of possible ways to set one up, as well as putting air in the tires, or was that something that isn't needed, I just see the question as argumentive, and if not impossible, nearly. It is now in pieces, unpainted, so why not start with that, and the rest is a piece of that cake DAD had reference to. Bob!:15:

Re: chassis setups
 

That's why I said the bagpipe learning curve was probably easier!

Re: chassis setups
 

A great way to get on the bad side of every one who reads things on this website! Bob!

Re: chassis setups
 

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
Jim, I think the bag-pipe book would be possible, even for someone who had never even seen one, there are a lot less things to be done, maybe not at one time, but it is pretty simple, blow in the bag, squeeze the bag, and put fingers over the notes, doesn't make any difference in which order, you'll eventually be able to play the scale, now, wasn't that simple? Now, try to explain the "mechanics", if you will, of the order in which to assemble a race car, as well as pick out a color before you start, then, make all the thousands of possible ways to set one up, as well as putting air in the tires, or was that something that isn't needed, I just see the question as argumentive, and if not impossible, nearly. It is now in pieces, unpainted, so why not start with that, and the rest is a piece of that cake DAD had reference to. Bob!:15:

Bob

Are you supposed to paint these things? I missed that class I guess. By the Time I get to the paint part, I am usually out of money. I kinda of like my "Mother of Jell-Coat " paint jobs and If God wanted you to hide them welds he wouldn't have invented TIG welders and WD40.

Honst Dad himself:6::6:

Re: chassis setups
 

DAD, the last one I built for myself, the one I am running now, when we can, I painted with Rustoleum Sunrise Red, took 6 cans, and I can go anywhere and get it, and after being built in 1998, and raced since, it still doesn't look bad, I think all the others I built were powdercoated, and have been several times since. I make all my panels out of pre-painted aluminum, so the only other thing is the fuel cell, this one was last painted, by a pro, in 1996. Now, if someone else were paying to have their name on the car, that might be different, but til then, it's what I want! I kinda think this thread has a smell to it, if your know what I mean! Bob

Originally Posted by TQ29m:
DAD, the last one I built for myself, the one I am running now, when we can, I painted with Rustoleum Sunrise Red, took 6 cans, and I can go anywhere and get it, and after being built in 1998, and raced since, it still doesn't look bad, I think all the others I built were powdercoated, and have been several times since. I make all my panels out of pre-painted aluminum, so the only other thing is the fuel cell, this one was last painted, by a pro, in 1996. Now, if someone else were paying to have their name on the car, that might be different, but til then, it's what I want! I kinda think this thread has a smell to it, if your know what I mean! Bob

Sunrise red must be the color of choice because I too, took that approach 2 years ago and soon to be doing it again..... Rustolem is easy to touch up and if a hard crash happens, it makes finding cracks and bent tubes easier too.

Originally Posted by diana:
Hello All,

I am looking for some good old fashioned, honest, down to earth advice on setups.
Bailey 1000 cc For example the car is totally stripped ready for powder coating and
now we are putting it back together. What I want is a step by step procedure of putting it back together
and establishing a base line setup. Include all info / car on jacks or ground/adjusting ride heights, blocking squaring , scaling , tire pressures , stagger
Bird cage timing , shock numbers,dry or wet track conditions. Remember small things that you take for granted others are not aware of. This will most likely take more than one evening to prepare. There are a lot of different techniques to accomplish the end product.
I would like to hear from all. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other racers who would be very interested in this topic. Lets all get together on this and help everyone
especially the new racers out there. It's a shame to waste all the talent and experience locked away in so many of your minds. I look forward to hearing from you and a sincere thank you from myself
and the millions of racers who will read this.
Merry Christmas to all.

With my Bailey, I always use the motor plate as a reference for squaring the front and rear axles. I also use plain 2x4 pieces for blocking. Just lift the car up with the blocks between the lower frame tube and the axle, slide the bar stops on with the adjustment bolts 50/50 in the stop so you have room to adjust up or down. Run the bolt down to where it just touches the torsion tube and tighten the lock nut. Remove the blocks and set the car down. On my car, I run 3" on the front, 2 1/2 on the right rear, 2 5/16 on the left rear. That's what was suggested for my car. It works just fine for me. Main thing is to setup the car with a recommended baseline from Bailey and adjust from there once you get to know how the car reacts. Starting out on the track, do one small adjustment and note how that one change made a difference. I have ran my baseline noted above for 2 years on 3 different size and banked tracks. Shocks are what make it all come together for me. One thing to remember, locktite your pinch bolts and I put a bright paint mark on the nut/bolt to help indicate that the nut has moved. If your car is a 4 bar rear. Timing your cages should be done after all alignment and blocking is done and put your "race weight" in the car. Either buy a cage level or for the poor folk like me, run a tad bit longer bolts on your cages because then you should be able to use a regular level. Just make sure your top and bottom bolts are level over each other. After you're done timing the cages, double check your axle alignments incase you knocked it out of whack. Adjust one rod longer and one rod shorter to help keep the axle from moving. That should get you in a drivable ballpark to get you track time, experience, and be patient learning how to use your baseline setup. One thing I must note about my car is I only run non-wing but Floyd's baseline should be pretty close. Pick up the mini sprint guide book and jimmy sills midget DVD. Very helpful info and will give you a better understanding how to properly setup a car. Good luck and Merry Christmas!!!

Re: chassis setups
 

Thanks Pat,
I appreciate your opinion and advice. Also it is refreshing to see that there are still some racers out there
that are willing to help there fellow racers. If we are going to help our class grow we should at least appear to look like we
will help steer the new guy in the right direction. What do you think Bob!!!!!!!!! I am sure you asked a question or two on your way up to being the
fantastic , generous , respected racer that we all know you are.
Merry Christmas.

Re: chassis setups
 

Pat did go the extra mile. I apologize if I didn't sound helpful; all I was trying to say is, once you've established your baseline (based on your chassis builder's recommendations) you can't really rely on other people's setup changes to work for you. We may be running the exact same chassis with the same bars and shocks but that doesn't account for the infinite number of variables like constantly changing track conditions, driving styles and on and on. One of the variables that hasn't really been mentioned by anyone but me is that any modifcations that may have been made by you or someone else will likely alter your chassis' dynamics to the point that it won't respond the same way. For example, my chassis was allegedly built by someone who is no longer in business and the car has been "rubbed on" by at least three other sets of hands; where am I supposed to go for a baseline? There are books and DVD's out there (most that have been mentioned in this thread) that have excellent information which will help immensely. Jimmy Sills' DVD is full of the stuff you're asking about, especially the bit at the end where he talks over real-race videos and describes what his and other driver's cars are doing, who's setups are and aren't working and what to do when it's not. That being said, experience is still the best teacher; find your baseline, then get out there next year and enjoy the process. While you are at the track is also the best time to seek out the expert advice, too, because what's happening at that moment is an important part of the equation. Hopefully in a few years you'll have learned enough that the newbies will be coming to you.

Originally Posted by diana:
Thanks Pat,
I appreciate your opinion and advice. Also it is refreshing to see that there are still some racers out there
that are willing to help there fellow racers. If we are going to help our class grow we should at least appear to look like we
will help steer the new guy in the right direction. What do you think Bob!!!!!!!!! I am sure you asked a question or two on your way up to being the
fantastic , generous , respected racer that we all know you are.
Merry Christmas.

No problem at all. We all should still be learning as new parts and technology evolves. If those of us "in the know" keep all the information to ourselves, then it would get to the point where nobody else would be able or want to join in and that would just stink. If someone beats me, I want it to be on the track and not because they couldn't get their car going and sits in the pits. When someone finishes better than me, it just makes me step up my game and work harder to get up front. I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of racing anyways......lol

Re: chassis setups
 

Nicely put Mr. Mead; sure hope we get to mix it up a bunch of times this coming year and see if your new-fangled water-cooled Yamaha can handle my oily old Suzuki....

You'll like how torquey that oil zuki will run.