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Bmw s1000rr engine
I have posted below a conversation via email I had with a customer about the BMW engine. I have been getting many calls of questions and concerns about this engine. I hope this will help bring you up to speed with where I am with the testing of this engine, and answer many of your questions and concerns. As always, constructive comments about this topic are always welcome!
Bobby Michnowicz Hi, I don't want to get into a debate since I am lacking in knowledge in the mini sprint division. But, how does a BMW help mini sprint racing ? My first thought is that this raises the level of the cost of our sport dramatically, and will drive people out of minis and into dwarf cars. I'm sure you have thought it out and heard many people say the same thing. LIke I said, I don't have a clue, but my first thought is time to get out of minis... ??? First thing I think of is Toyota in midget racing. I'm just another dumb mini sprint racer wondering out loud here... thx Rick Hench Hi Bobby, I won't debate for or against the BMW being good for mini sprint racing. My debate is to why anyone would outlaw any manufacturer out of fear of the unknown! That is a very slippery slope in my opinion. No one has the BMW running at full potential yet. As far as I know I am the closest. I'm doing it out of interest, curiosity, and feasibility. The bike has very sophisticated electronics with many safety's built in for rider protection. The Computer monitors many things in milliseconds and anytime it sees an issue it goes into a safe mode. Safe mode is 50% maximum throttle butterfly opening with 100% input to the throttle by wire sensor. At 50% throttle the engine produces a max of 138 HP and 14,000 RPM. Nothing out of ordinary for any of the 1000 cc engines I've tested. Actually down a bit from the ZX10. I have diagnosed what the computer is looking for and I've found a company to work with to re-program "flash" the ECU in an effort to eliminate those faults. This is also not uncommon as we do that now for the new generation R1's and the other manufactures are close behind. This is a very reasonably priced modification and will most likely be required to do to all bike engines in the near future. As a matter of fact the new Honda has "traction control" wheelie prevention also. You may be faced with that when you get yours running? This is accomplished with the manufacturer putting wheel speed sensors on the front and rear wheels of the bike. The ECU monitors any speed differential in the 2 sensors and backs the throttle off to 50% if needed. It is intended to save the rider in the event of a wheelie or spinning the rear tire on a wet road or acceleration. This is when most accidents occur. That feature is in no way intended to be an unfair advantage for the mini sprint racer that puts one of these engines in a car. The positives of the BMW is that you will have to run the stock air box saving money, and the injectors can run gas or methanol with no conversion. Again saving money. Add a PC5, flash and go... I hope to know if this flash is going to work in the next few weeks. I will be posting my findings then. If anyone is worried about "traction control" in the true sense of the word, then outlaw wheel speed sensors and not a manufacturer or the term. If we do that then in a few years all bike engines will be outlawed because they will all be using it, again as a rider safety device. For more sake of argument, wheel speed sensors will never be practical or feasible on a dirt car because we change the differential of the rear tire circumference too much. Every tire combination would require a different calibration. The BMW S1000RR is getting much more plentiful and the price has dropped considerably. I'm finding these engines now at lower prices than the new GSXR's. I hope this makes you better prepared to make your own decision about the BMW and other bike engines. Rick Hench :32: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Great post Mr. Hench. If this doesn't start the wheels spinning in all that are concerned.....nothing will. I am really curious to see your findings when you get the bugs ironed out. Please keep us all posted.
I will say this...........after watching that Super Bike racing show on cable with Larry Pegram riding a 1000cc BMW, it doesn't look like it has much more poop than anything out there. But it if didn't have some unique quality, why would you be interested??? LOL Would it just be easier to go back to the old oil and water cooled Suzuki motors with mechanical injection and total loss ignitions? LOL |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
how about this http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/conte...S1000RR_03.pdf You will have to convert them prices they are in Euros.
If you got the money there will always be somebody out there to help you spend it. Kinda of like a bunch of old biddys setting around and talking trash isn't it. Worry Worry Worry!!! Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by openwheel44: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by jjones752: I think You just might be a tad bit prejudiced ! TIC https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/ima...tor/smilie.gif Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
You forgot self-absorbed and delusional!
I do think Rick has some exceptional points to make, specifically that the future pool of avalable engines is only going to get more and more sophisticated and complex; outlawing modern design and technology for its' own sake may not be the best course. Sooner or later the supply of "old guard" equipment (like my trusty ol' dinosaur, then the next generation) will dwindle, and then what? |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Jonsey
I like to call it "Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face".:15: "Then what?" we call them "TQ's" Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Thank you Phil. I will post more information as I have it available.
DAD... I see you are referencing a Bosch stand alone control system on this thread, and a comment about someone willing to help you spend your money... I'm not sure what that has to do with my development research on the BMW engine or my post about what I have learned to this point. I'm not here nor did I post this information to debate stand alone control systems for any bike engines. These systems are available for any engine with electronic fuel injection and ignition. My research is being done using all of the stock factory electronics. I don't know that any sanctions allow these stand alone custom systems. For the record, I'm not in favor of nor advocating using any such system! That however could be a topic for another thread. Rick |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by HRPCHASSIS: Rick There are always people that would spend $20,000.00 on a stand alone Bosch system complete with dash if they thought it would make them faster and they had the disposable income to invest in one. I for one would probably work on the idea of changing out that super Ecm to a little simpler one from another bike. Just because they are called "brain boxes" does not mean we can't do a transplant. They all work off the same basics, the counts of the crank may be different but they all measure degrees, rpm, and seconds and convert the inputs into a result. The older bikes worked on an open loop when you introduce the o2 sensor then they changed to closed loop not the best thing for racing. Look at all those old mechanical injectors and mags, they do a pretty good job on a race engine. I applaude your work on the BMW engine. I thought the price is right racers out there would love them 5000 euros ECM's. If you check back to some of my previous posts I have been one of the few supporters of the BMW. To arbitrarily out law an engine because of a magazine advertisement, and that is what the magazine reviews are is kinda of dumb. You got my support bud. You got a dry sump for a gen 4 Kaw yet? Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Here are some comparison numbers for motors.
2008 ZX-10r Compression Ratio 12.9:1 Measured Peak Horsepower 155.91 bhp @ 12,100 rpm Measuerd Peak Torque 72.72 lbs.-ft @ 9,000 rpm 2008 GSXR Compression Ratio 12.5:1 Measured Peak Horsepower 156.48 bhp @ 12,100 rpm Measured Peak Torque 74.48 lbs. - ft. @ 9,950 rpm 2009 GSXR Compression Ratio 12.8:1 Measured Peak Horsepower 159.89 bph @ 10,600 rpm Measured Peak Torque 79.50 lbs.-ft @ 9,550 rpm 2008 R-1 Compression Ratio 12.7:1 Measured Peak Horsepower 152.62 bhp @ 11,750 rpm Measured Peak Torque 76.77 lbs. - ft. @ 8,900 rpm 2009 Honda CBR Compression Ratio 12.3:1 Measured Peak Horsepower 157.83 bhp @ 11,700 rpm Measured Peak Torque 76.80 lbs.-ft @ 9,900 rpm BMW Compression Ratio 13.0:1 Measured Peak Horsepower 184.75 bhp @ 13,150 rpm Measured Peak Torque 81.06 lbs. - ft. @ 10,250 rpm All stock numbers from APE Dad fill us in on the new ZX-10 numbers please.. |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by Quantrill: Just like they were back in 2004 (gen1), then 2006 (gen2), and then in 2008 (gen3) they are light years ahead of some the other engine. Probably the reason I as well as you and Phil chose them over the other engine out there. I also chose them for the challenge? Everybody runs Yamaha and Suzuki, I kinda of like doing it a different way. As a matter of fact the gen 1 was the bad azz Kawasaki motor. The gen 3 was actually de-tuned quite a bit from the gen 1 to make it more controllable by the rider or in our case the driver. When the gen 1 came on the cam it was almost impossible for the driver to prevent rear wheel slip. Horsepower is nice to talk about but being able to keep the thing hooked up is what wins races. I like to call DYNO NUMBERS "Glittering Bull Sh1t" a good dyno operator can make a dyno read whatever he wants to, and this gives the owner of the dyno tuned motor something to talk about to his buddies. "Well my Dyno Guy said yada yada yada". The truth is usually brought to us on the race track, and it is usually a driver that delivers that truth to us. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by : So Bill If all these Dyno numbers are BS then you nor anyone is making any future decisions based off of any dyno numbers? Ya,,, sure you dont... Here is a link for A.P.E. on there testing numbers. It gives reported HP and actually HP. No sales BS. http://www.aperaceparts.com/tech/ Everyone take note on where these motors are building peak HP and torque and the increase in compression ratio related to gained HP. That and cam profile will tell you which motors are going to out preform others. Increased compression ratio, cam lift, and RPM. Put them together and what do you have? More POWER!! Very good link for everyone to save when talking motors. |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Paul Davis has one of these but we haven't seen it at the track. With any new engine rules for our series this year are rumored to have a grace period. I actually wouldn't mind seeing this car run. Just to see what the hype is about.
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Mark
To the best of my knowledge we have one Kawasaki zx10r racing with the MMSA and You guys have I think 3 zx10r's racing with you, would that be right? I chose mine back in 2004 mainly because it was different from the other motors and it did report pretty good numbers. I don't know why other people chose them, perhaps because the wiring was so simple, maybe because they liked motors that belched oil instead of fire or maybe because they had always ran Kawasaki's and did not feel like changing . Heck I don't know why other people do what they do. You have a few guy's a thousand plus miles away from you that are developing different and new engines for the sport. That is not a bad thing. Had somebody not set an old motorcycle motor in a junk midget frame years ago we would all be watching the races from the grandstands. Why didn't racing groups not try to ban the zx10r 10 years ago when it showed a 20+ horsepower advantage on the other bike motors? I would like to think that the reason was that they did not read as many magazines as us enlightened ones did and we snuck in. If these high powered motors for their time were so hot why do you see so many other motors racing and not Kawasaki's? To the casual reader one might think that you are trying to protect your advantage from the newer and better developed motors. That is your perogative to do so. However there is one thing you should keep in mind. If you are racing to win that old Kawasaki is going meet it just rewards someday just as all racing motor do. So when it does are you going to go out and buy a low mile 08 motor again, but this time 12,000 to 15,000 is going to be what they call low miles. We already have some groups that cling to old and outdated motors and because of that reason their motors and parts for them just keep getting more expensive every day. I am all for stock motors but if we want to keep racing motorcycle powered race cars the cars may have to adapt to work with these new motors. When you start penalizing people who want to develop new engines, maybe just because they like a challenge. Like I keep on saying, "You are cutting off your nose to spite your face". Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
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I hope "we" will not make it common practice to make rules "outlaw" an engine or other products based on peak values that a company on the secondary market publishes as the gospel! Slippery slope! Much more to racing than peak HP values!!! With that reasoning, the BMW is 20% better than all other manufacturers. Why is every team in AMA not racing or winning with the BMW? Why don't we just race on the dyno and whoever puts up the biggest number wins? My goodness, no track prep, no dust, no insurance, no tire bill, no wrecks "dang!", etc... Sorry I couldn't resist! Seriously, we don't know how this engine will perform in a sprint car. I'm putting my money on the best car/driver on a given night to win. Not the guy with the biggest peak...
Rick |
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Somebody is going to have to pay for that "stay dry" to clean the oil up from the dyno room floor!! :D;)
Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by DAD: :47: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Rick
You ain't seen these fancy bay windows that I have installed in my old zx10's running a dry sump. One big advantage was when I switched to a dry sump I installed a belly pan to protect my hoses. The belly pan also does a good job of holding on to engine pieces and now i got a real neat collection of broken Kaw rods. A rude awakening is when you pull the pan on a gen 4 zx10r for the first time. I did not imagine that they could make oil go in that many different directions at one time. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : Here is a list of allowed bikes for the 2012 season. EBR 1190RS - Kawasaki ZX-1000 Yamaha YZF-R1 - Suzuki GSX-R1000 Honda CBR 1000 - RR BMW S1000RR Here are some high lights of the AMA Super bike class motor rules. 4.8 Engine Modifications Note: In 2014, Non O.E. Surface treatments or surface coatings of any kind will be prohibited unless specifically approved. a. Cylinder Head i. Cylinder heads must remain as homologated with the following modifications allowed: 1. Porting and polishing of the cylinder head and intake manifold normally associated with individual tuning such as gas flowing of the cylinder head, including the combustion chamber is allowed. 2. Welding or the addition of material is allowed. 3. The compression ratio is unrestricted. 4. Combustion chamber may be modified. 5. Replacement valve seats, guides, and guide seals are permitted. 6. Cylinder head gasket surface may be machined to allow the adjustment of compression ratio or resurfacing to repair a warped cylinder surface deck. d. Valves, Springs and Retainers i. Valves must remain as homologated. No modifications are allowed. ii. The original number of valves must be maintained. iii. Valves must remain in the same location and at the same angle as the homologated model. iv. Aftermarket or modified spring bases, springs, retainers and other valve-train components are permitted e. Camshafts and Sprockets i. The original camshafts may be modified or replaced from those fitted to the homologated motorcycle. They must remain the same material as stock, or steel. They must be approved and appear on the Eligible Equipment List. ii. Offsetting the camshaft is not allowed. The camshaft must remain in the homologated location. iii. At the technical checks: for direct cam drive systems, the cam lobe lift is measured; for non direct cam drive systems (i.e. with rocker arms), the valve lift is measured. iv. The method of drive must remain as homologated. v. Cam sprockets can be modified or replaced to allow the degreeing of camshafts. They for all practical purpose are open motors. Originally Posted by : Originally Posted by : |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
In my group, we have elected to stick with the 4 Japanese manufactures. While I support my club’s decision, I don’t think anybody around here has any problem with the Northeast clubs taking the initiative to try this motor. I think it’s good that someone is trying it & I will definitely be following their progress to see how it performs.
My concern is how the BMW has some similar characteristics to the zx12 (lower availability and higher horsepower). When the zx12 reigned supreme, the availability started declining and the prices increased, & we all know it ultimately started doing more harm than good. We don’t know if the BMW will go down that path, but it is safer to err on the side of caution for now while nobody has a BMW yet. Keep in mind, clubs can always legalize the BMW later on at any point in time, but once you allow it, there’s basically no going back. Ok DAD take it away…. |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by RickyBobby: Ricky "BANG" I truthfully believe the BMW is not heavy enough to be a very good "Boat Anchor":5: We have been told by competent authority that the Dwarfs & Lites have :7: canned the late models already. Now if we can get them sports racers to do the same thing we are in the drivers seat. I foresee a BMW in every mini sprint race car out there. CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP:8::8::8: That is!! except for mine. Why would anybody want to go "back"-- wards?? Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
4.8 Engine Modifications
Note: In 2014, Non O.E. Surface treatments or surface coatings of any kind will be prohibited unless specifically approved. a. Cylinder Head i. Cylinder heads must remain as homologated with the following modifications allowed: 1. Porting and polishing of the cylinder head and intake manifold normally associated with individual tuning such as gas flowing of the cylinder head, including the combustion chamber is allowed. 2. Welding or the addition of material is allowed. 3. The compression ratio is unrestricted. 4. Combustion chamber may be modified. 5. Replacement valve seats, guides, and guide seals are permitted. 6. Cylinder head gasket surface may be machined to allow the adjustment of compression ratio or resurfacing to repair a warped cylinder surface deck. d. Valves, Springs and Retainers i. Valves must remain as homologated. No modifications are allowed. ii. The original number of valves must be maintained. iii. Valves must remain in the same location and at the same angle as the homologated model. iv. Aftermarket or modified spring bases, springs, retainers and other valve-train components are permitted e. Camshafts and Sprockets i. The original camshafts may be modified or replaced from those fitted to the homologated motorcycle. They must remain the same material as stock, or steel. They must be approved and appear on the Eligible Equipment List. ii. Offsetting the camshaft is not allowed. The camshaft must remain in the homologated location. iii. At the technical checks: for direct cam drive systems, the cam lobe lift is measured; for non direct cam drive systems (i.e. with rocker arms), the valve lift is measured. iv. The method of drive must remain as homologated. v. Cam sprockets can be modified or replaced to allow the degreeing of camshafts. They for all practical purpose are open motors. Can you imagine someone would re machine cam bores and move the cams in a cylinder head, or that someone would change the angle of the valves in the head for a performance improvement. That is serious stuff. We had a guy in quarter midgets years ago named Carl Shoji his son Richard was the kid that drove the chrome plated Kurtis Craft Quarter Midget made popular in the plastic car model sold by Revell. Shoji would cut away an old cast iron Continental block and braze a straight piece of pipe coming out the side of the block and running to the intake valve, making the intake path a straight shot from the carburetor to the intake valve, much like our motors do today. They called them side ports and they were fast and very hard to come by. But if you had one you was "KING" in AA Quarter Midgets. Most car racers aren't going to go to that extreme but I guess there have been a few of them bike guys that did or they wouldn't make such rules. My point has always been there is just not that much horsepower left in one of these little motors without changing the aspiration on them (supercharging), Oxygenated fuels etc. The only engines out there that are making more horse power per CC than us would be the Formula I car motors. We are making 200 hp per 1000cc's a USAC national midget motor make 400 hp per 2700 cc's. They would have to gain a whole lot to match our numbers. That is why we are so darned fast. In layman's terms the National USAC midget motor produces about 2.4 horsepower per cubic inch. The bone stock late model bike motor produces 3.27 horsepower per cubic inch. SO when they get the USAC midget motor as effecient as our little motors are right now there will be a 540 horsepower midget motor out there racing. The advantage to the BMW is a very over square bore to stroke ratio, and the use of rocker activated valves instead of buckets. Because of their over square design, they can run a little larger valve and maybe improve their VE one or two percent at a certain rpm. They also must give up crankshaft stroke to do this. This means at lower rpm's (I hope Don doesn't get a paddle shifter) he will be down in torque or the ability to pull away from the turn as he tries to go under you on exit. Also just like the little R6 Yamaha did to the F4 Honda we had to SCREAM them to make them work at all. Hench has his work cut out for him but he also has a driver that can get the most out of that or any other engine. I just wish people were not so up tight about change. The Changing engine designs over the last 12 years or so is what has brought Mini Sprints back from the dead. We don't need $10,000.00 Orient Express or Hank Scott motors anymore to be fast and to be honest with you these guys aren't going to get a whole lot more horsepower out of these engine either. What they could and can do is make them easier to drive, or de-tune them a little like Kawasaki did in 2008. Did you know that in 2012 BMW put a heaver crank in the 1000rr to try and make them more manageable and reliable. If we spent more time on our driving and set up and less time worrying about what is under some guys hood the sport would be a lot better off. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Has anyone ? Had success with this motor ? Or is running it?
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Shim
Paul Davis has one that seems to work pretty good racing with MMSA, their appears to be a steep learning curve>:) but Paul seems to have his fingers around it. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
We have taken some calls recently, for those who are confused by this, Paul's car grandfathered before the national rules took place. It has been nice to see his car perform to make a better educated descision if this ever comes to a vote again. We will not ban any of the Japanese engines unless it's voted on by all National Series partners. The MMSA does standby the 2 year rule which was voted on in the National Meeting.
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by MMSA: Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Come on "dad",thought you were smarter than that.most know the main difference is tqs run direct drive drivelines versus the minis chain drive.the costs for our "outdated engines"still don't come close to what it sounds like you guys are spending,in order to be competitive.and you're going through all this for what?peanuts for payout.hmmmm.
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Originally Posted by trannyman: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
The machine work isn't all that expensive, I used to do one for $150.00, and like anything else, depends on how much ya want, and how much ya got, and how much you can do yourself, a guy on a budget with some mechanical experience, and a book on the engine, can probably build a good engine for under $3,000.00, but, there are a lot of parts still available, that can be had for a lot less, that's what separates the man and his money, when we were running Honda's, and running full seasons, I could get at least 3 seasons out of an engine, maybe a set of rings and touch up the valves during the winter, rest of it was good to go, a guy like me, with a lot of years in the mechanical and fabrication ends of racing, my costs were a way lot cheaper than the go-karts I had ran since 1958, but then, I was doing my own work on them also, as well as for others, I had as high as 5 guys working 5 nights a week on them! Bob
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Andy
I for one am for letting the TQ's race with us if they wish, they are in a time of flux right now. The old 750 Honda's are drying up and they are in search of a new power plant. They are stuck between a newer design MC motor that they can't get geared low enough without resorting to the little bitty micro wheels and tires or a Briggs and Stratton Vanguard Motor. They kind of boxed them selves in a hole thinking back 40 years ago that no one would ever produce a motor that needed to be run at 15,000 RPM's to make any power and outlawed any kind of gear reduction. So now they are going to have to take an antique U-Joint that wasn't designed to run 8000 rpm's and spin it up to 15000 rpm's. Should be interesting. I suggested switching to a slower revving 1000 cc motor and they almost had a heart attack. Reminds me about our argument about the BMW motor? What the heck did you say in the above post and has Mark been reading any more magazine articles about how powerful the BMW and New Kawasaki was supposed to be and had another hissy fit. To me it looks like the automotive motors will be most viable and the cheapest way to go racing, and will save us a whole lot of sweat in the pits changing gears. As far as the 2 year deal goes been there done that>>>even the most enlightened of us can't tell one from the other and them numbers on the back don't help a bit. Like old Rodney King once said can't we just all try to get along? We are all addicted to the same drug>>>>we all for the most part want to and some of us have to do it on the cheap. Rules cost money!!!!! We have three classes of race cars TQ's being the oldest>>Mini Sprint being second oldest>>>and the stock block Automotive Midget being the youngest. There is not 10 cents worth of difference between them all. TQ's have kept growing over the years using Midget components and wheels and tires until they are more like 7/8th Midgets. The Mini and Automotive started out midgets...Why not consolidate and make it easier on all of us. It doesn't have to happen over night. Race cars have a very high attrition rate>>>when this old Kaw of ours goes and it will and if our new old Kaw that we have laid up is outlawed we will probably retire or get an Eco tec and race up north. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
DAD, ya ever think ya might be outa your wheelhouse? There is no shortage of the CB750 donor motors, they only built over 3 million of them, people just don't know where to look! As far as TQs being in a state of flux, isn't everything, including racing, no matter what you are looking at, give it a rest, not everyone wants what you are trying to sell, way it goes! Bob
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Bob
You might call me one of them "Young Modern Progressive" type people....We believe if you say something loud enough and long enough people will bight just to shut you up and if you stone wall long enough they will have forgotten the Question.:5: Seems like no matter how hard we try we always end up back talking about Three Quarter Midgets>>>>I have no idea what a TQ has in common with a 1000rr BMW motor. Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Tranny
The MMSA has their pay out posted with their rules>>>I couldn't find a pay out for the TQ's could you help me out and direct me to them. I know a guy that messes with a lot of TQ's and heck we might decide to switch if the money is that much better. You know what they say "Money Talks ect ect" Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Originally Posted by DAD: |
Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Andrew
Thanks for the info. Bob My comments are only for discussion>>>What if we did this what would happen? What if we did that would it be any different? Well we have done it this way for forty years why change. I do not want change for the sake of change>>>But some change ever so often is nice>>>you are the guy working on Yamaha's as an alternative to the Honda. It sounds like a great idea to me, but during your development time motor design has changed again, I do not see anything wrong with that either. I am also for moving on as designs change. I bought a 1969 750 Honda Motorcycle in 1970, the serial number on the frame was like 650 something, it had broke a chain and threw it through the block. I repaired it and it was the fastest motorcycle around for a year or two. But I think Kawasaki or Yamaha came out with something bigger and faster, that is the way things work. This topic started out about the fear several racers felt about the then new BMW 1000cc motor being used and it making them uncompetitive:::SO>WHAT life goes on. To ban it from competition would be what country's call protectionism. That word "SUCKS" if we had protectionism in Medicine you and me would both be 6 feet under. The only thing it is good for is the halt of invention. When we stop learning or getting better we start Dying from decay within. I do not intend to bash TQ's or any other class of racing, all of them have merit. I throw stuff out and people respond>>>>I like that >>>>It keeps both me and them thinking and thinking is a good thing. I gave a friend of mine a link to a song that I guess I have always carried around in my head here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaPTweZ2_fI Just keep buttin your head Honest Dad himself:6::6: |
As usual, you have your mouth open, and your mind closed, out of your wheelhouse yet again, the Yamaha motor I'm using, is in the 600cc bike on the dealers floors today, they are the longest stroke 600's being produced today! They currently build 2, 600cc bikes, the 600R, and the 600R6, the R6 is the high winding version, the 600R being the torqer, that I use. Bob
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Re: Bmw s1000rr engine
Bob
No argument here>>>>>What are your feelings about making the BMW 1000rr motor legal to race? Honest Dad himself:6::6: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF600R |
I'm staying in my wheelhouse, that wikipedia page has a disclaimer on it, not current I believe! Bob
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