Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

I found a couple of the rules interesting.

1200 cc Mini Sprints
Age:

Drivers must be a minimum of 13 years of age.
Roll Cage/Chassis:

Roll Cage minimum size 1 ¼”, .095 4130 Chromoly Tubing. The front section of the cage shall be no further back than the steering wheel. Roll cage shall have sufficient fore and aft bracing, and strength to support the weight of the car and driver in case of an upset. Cage shall have gussets at the intersecting bars to the uprights. Bends must have at least 3 inch radius. No square or pointed corners allowed. Roll cage must be a minimum of 3 in. above the driver’s helmet.

Wheelbase shall be 64” to 74”.

Must be Chain Drive.

Chain guards mandatory. It must shield Driver from chain.

Must have sprint car style hood, tail and have the appearance of an open wheeled dirt sprint car. No modified styles or radical offsets.

Motor not to be offset more than 6” from chassis centerline. (No sidewinders)

All cars to be equipped with either a steering gear or rack and pinion.

A firewall between engine and driver is required.

Tires/Wheels:

Tire Rule: Right rear must be a Hoosier RD15, D15, SP2, SP3 or Ecotech.

13” wheels only.

Engine:

Only reciprocating piston engines allowed. No Turbo charging, supercharging or rotary engines allowed. Approved Lighting Sprint car engine is described as a production engine of which at least 100 engines of identical design and assembly have been manufactured and made available for sale.

1205cc maximum displacement. No downsizing.

Original equipment manufacturer (OEM) crankshaft only, must be stock stroke.

No aftermarket cylinders.

No traction control allowed. If part of factory ECU, it must be disabled.

Aftermarket use and or modification of ignition, exhaust, carburation, and mechanical or electronic fuel injection allowed.

Transmission - must be operable in all gears.

Oil Pan and pickup modifications allowed.

Dry sump oil system allowed.

Must have operable on-board battery, starter and clutch.

Must have stock (working) charging system. No cut out allowed.

Methanol or Gas. No Nitrated fuels.

Mufflers mandatory. Tulsa Fairgrounds requires each vehicle’s noise level be below 95DB.

Minimum Weight:

(Post race with driver)

Stock Bore & Stroke 1000cc or less engines 925 lbs.

Up to 1205cc engines 1000 lbs.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

You printed the whole list: is this a test to see if we can guess which rules are the interesting ones? What do we win?

Seriously, the only one that catches my eye is the alternator rule (must have stock charging system). What else strikes you as odd?

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Sorry. Guess I could have mentioned what I was thinking. These might be normal rules out east...I didn't research it, just what I found interesting.

Wheelbase shall be 64” to 74”. I always thought 72" was a standard max? When did it go to 74"?


Approved Lighting Sprint car engine is described as a production engine of which at least 100 engines of identical design and assembly have been manufactured and made available for sale. So this means the BMW is legal? Does any group specifically outlaw BMW's?


No traction control allowed. If part of factory ECU, it must be disabled. First time I've seen this rule. How do they disable it and be able to check it is disabled?


Aftermarket use and or modification of ignition, exhaust, carburation, and mechanical or electronic fuel injection allowed. Included this just because of all the talk about the Engler injection. Guess it is starting to catch on?


Dry sump oil system allowed. Hate to see this get started.


Methanol or Gas. No Nitrated fuels. In years past....you had to buy fuel at the Shootout.?

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

CW

Sounds pretty good to me, we could live by them. Probably composed by a guy that knows something about putting a racing class together.

I think that 74 is for midget chassis WB now. The longer you make them the easier it is to stay on top of them. That is what is wrong with sidewinders.

What is wrong with "BMW Motors" something an old wife told you. We put or TC switch under the hood, all it is is an ign. retard system up to a certain rpm.

If you ever took an oil bath from an old zx10r you would know what I am talking about when favoring a dry sump.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by cws9:
Sorry. Guess I could have mentioned what I was thinking. These might be normal rules out east...I didn't research it, just what I found interesting.

Wheelbase shall be 64” to 74”. I always thought 72" was a standard max? When did it go to 74"?



Dry sump oil system allowed. Hate to see this get started.

WIMS is 74" to more easily accommodate Henchcrafts and the numerous midget-based cars in the group

What's the problem with drysumps? Improved engine reliability and no on-track performance advantage. If anything, the extra weight is a disadvantage. Wetsump- lighter and faster, drysump- heavier, but more reliable. Don't want a drysump, don't buy one... buy motors more often instead.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Hey Dad how is that dry sump working out for YOUR motor longevity this year :6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by Quantrill:
Hey Dad how is that dry sump working out for YOUR motor longevity this year :6:

Mark

Thanks for your concern. We are working on it and I am sure we can get things figured out if we keep at it long enough. The good thing is we are still having fun racing, and that is what matters isn't it.

Good luck on your rule book.

Have a nice day

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

I think, and mind you this is just my opinion, the rules are written as generally as practical in order to encourage participation from a broad base of potential entries. Given that the Shootout is a non-wing affair for the 1200's I think Dad would agree that the setup and the driver make the difference. Which is how it should be. So, the displacement is set at the "old standard" of 1200cc. Specific motors (eg BMW) aren't excluded. Specific induction systems likewise. My 22-year-old old oil-cooled GSXR 1127 came to me with Hilborn injection, so it certainly isn't something that was invented by Engler within the last few years (what's the big fuss about Engler injection anyway? Are they that much better than Hilborn or Kinsler to be singled out? But I digress). Dry sump is allowed because apparently some clubs let them run. The more the merrier. Disable traction control if you can because it takes driver finesse out of the equation. Like a wing. All sounds good to me. Once I get a season at Montpelier under my belt I may have to give it a shot next year. If I can figure out how to cope with that alternator rule. It's always something...

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

I think that is a good rule book. Simple rules. All fit in one page. Easy to tech. Make that the national lightning sprint rule book.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by :
Good luck on your rule book.

You are giving me to much credit. At the regional lightning sprint meeting we had 4 Lightning sprint groups, two track promoters and two engine builders on site, plus one more lightning sprint group participating live via streaming video. I believe I can speak for everyone that attended in saying it exceeded all of our expectations on cooperation in trying to promote lightning sprints.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by Quantrill:
You are giving me to much credit. At the regional lightning sprint meeting we had 4 Lightning sprint groups, two track promoters and two engine builders on site, plus one more lightning sprint group participating live via streaming video. I believe I can speak for everyone that attended in saying it exceeded all of our expectations on cooperation in trying to promote lightning sprints.

Mark

We are all waiting for Andy's report. That was a pretty good trick getting that many people together for a meeting. Must have been some super good food provided by Mr. Fortune is all I can figure.

I think we should have a pretty good turn out our banquet also because that BBQ of Mikes is pretty darned good.

Did "you guys" (North of Mason Dixon)>> "You All" (South of Mason Dixon) require checking of weapons at door.

I think Bill May might be getting a little carried away, But sure Glad I got that ankle gun.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
I think, and mind you this is just my opinion, the rules are written as generally as practical in order to encourage participation from a broad base of potential entries. Given that the Shootout is a non-wing affair for the 1200's I think Dad would agree that the setup and the driver make the difference. Which is how it should be. So, the displacement is set at the "old standard" of 1200cc. Specific motors (eg BMW) aren't excluded. Specific induction systems likewise. My 22-year-old old oil-cooled GSXR 1127 came to me with Hilborn injection, so it certainly isn't something that was invented by Engler within the last few years (what's the big fuss about Engler injection anyway? Are they that much better than Hilborn or Kinsler to be singled out? But I digress). Dry sump is allowed because apparently some clubs let them run. The more the merrier. Disable traction control if you can because it takes driver finesse out of the equation. Like a wing. All sounds good to me. Once I get a season at Montpelier under my belt I may have to give it a shot next year. If I can figure out how to cope with that alternator rule. It's always something...

Jonesy

Better get started on locating a flywheel and stator for that old "boat mooring" device you are racing with. Parts for them are getting harder and harder to find every day.

I truly like the Tulsa rules, these guys are being inclusive with their rules. I can not think of any mini-sprint running anywhere in the USA that could not just load up and go racing with them. Isn't this exactly what we are striving for?:8::8::14::16:17::18::32::22:

Sorry they do not include Division II midgets, "BUT" they do race Echotecs at the Shootout also.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

So.............. non-stock cams, head/valve work, raised compression, titanium rods, port work are all legal? All they are truly teching internally is bore and stroke?

I agree indoors on that track, non-winged, motor is not that important. Listen to anyone's video that has raced there.......hardly ever truly on the throttle. But for national rules on bigger outdoor tracks?? Tracks that can utilize whatever HP you can get out of the motor? Seriously?

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
So.............. non-stock cams, head/valve work, raised compression, titanium rods, port work are all legal? All they are truly teching internally is bore and stroke?

I agree indoors on that track, non-winged, motor is not that important. Listen to anyone's video that has raced there.......hardly ever truly on the throttle. But for national rules on bigger outdoor tracks?? Tracks that can utilize whatever HP you can get out of the motor? Seriously?

Phil

I said their rules were almost perfect. Like a truly perfect country song they are missing a few things.

1. 925 pounds is OK for a stock internal motor with aftermarket carburetion of any kind (OK Andy). The better you mix the fuel and air, the better it works. The higher pressure in the electronic injection make the fuel atomize better than the mechanical type injectors. For aesthetics and the fiddle factor mechanical wins hands down. And yes when you blow a motor up it can be moved to your new motor. A one time expense and the mechanical pump is much more durable than some of those electric pumps people use.

2. If a racer wants to trick out his motor or run one of the big 1200 cc motors, let them but, I would feel more comfortable with a 100 pound handicap for anything other than stock internal 1000 cc motors.

IF 100 pounds doesn't do it add more weight. The trick is to make the racer that is wanting to spend money on his engine is at a disadvantage to stock the racers. Let them spend their money on chrome, and graphics and sticker tires and solvents for those tires etc.

We would already make the handy cap so perhaps we might want to do a little more to our engine, to make up for the handicap. LOL

3. I would love to get rid of gasoline as a race fuel. I would add at least a 25 pound handicap to the gasoline people to encourage them to switch away from that $15.00 a gallon burn in a vacuum fuel to plain old Methanol. Or if they were green to Ethanol, come to think of it they are both renewable and produce fewer pollutants than petro.

4. For safety I would like to see a rule that stipulates that if equipped with an electric pump. That the pump MUST turn off automatically when the engine stops with the switch on.

There may be other things that people find wrong with the Shootout rules but they sure have a nice short to the point template to start with.

Phil
I do have a very simple way of checking camshaft lift without removing the valve cover at the track. Probably a $25.00 piece. And that little 3/8 mpt plug ain't going to draw in any air or spit out any more oil than your average zx10r motor does at any race.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Mc performance

This could be a deal for you. I have no desire to go into business. A guy with a screw machine or cnc lathe could spit these things out like popcorn You could make a little money and do us all, Dwarf cars, minisprints and SCCA racers a big favor.

If you are interested give me a call. Bill @ 1-502-778-6833

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

I take it you are indicating the cam lobe with a dial indicator secured to the top of the motor through a hole? Securing to the motor sufficiently would be the only problem. Plus..........you need to know the cam lift of every year of every legal motor. Or.....do what we did back here.........require the participant to have his spec sheet on his particular motor available for the tech man.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
I take it you are indicating the cam lobe with a dial indicator secured to the top of the motor through a hole? Securing to the motor sufficiently would be the only problem. Plus..........you need to know the cam lift of every year of every legal motor. Or.....do what we did back here.........require the participant to have his spec sheet on his particular motor available for the tech man.

Phil

If we are trying to run stock internals we need to know the stock cam lift. The Kaw is found in the race manual, and I am sure the others publish them also. The problem with stock is always Numbers and specification. We want to make it simple for the tec guy and the racer. A rule that requires hours to perform is not worth a dime, we just won't do it, so let it be wide open.

We stated a long time ago that racers needed to be equipped a manual with specs. for their particular engine. Kaw has not changed cam design from 2004 until 2011 and boy did they change then, however to use the big cam you also need big lifters.

the kaw is a piece of cake to install the cam checker, suzuki and yamaha may require a little more work, but not much.

If anybody has an old scrap r1 or gsxr heads laying around I sure would like to get my hands on them to play with. I got all the Kaw's I'll ever need.

It isn't rocket science, just problem solving.

They don't leave any room for duration inside these motors so they have to do it with lift. Three or five or even twenty thousandth of an inch won't help but 60 sure will and that is an easy check. Don't go down that go-kart path and DQ people for .002 inch.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Give me a call

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
Jonesy

Better get started on locating a flywheel and stator for that old "boat mooring" device you are racing with. Parts for them are getting harder and harder to find every day.

I truly like the Tulsa rules, these guys are being inclusive with their rules. I can not think of any mini-sprint running anywhere in the USA that could not just load up and go racing with them. Isn't this exactly what we are striving for?

Sorry they do not include Division II midgets, "BUT" they do race Echotecs at the Shootout also.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I see several on eBay, in the $50.00-$125.00 range. I dunno, though; hafta figure out how to splice it back into the (drastically cut down) harness, and for one show a year? Maybe I'd be better off runnin the old geez(x)er till she blows and spring for an upgrade like Pat Mead's doing this winter; anybody ever put an Ecotec in a Doemelt? :18:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
I see several on eBay, in the $50.00-$125.00 range. I dunno, though; hafta figure out how to splice it back into the (drastically cut down) harness, and for one show a year? Maybe I'd be better off runnin the old geez(x)er till she blows and spring for an upgrade like Pat Mead's doing this winter; anybody ever put an Ecotec in a Doemelt? :18:

Jonesy

Keep the darned thing in there. It won't slow you down and you can forget about the battery charger all the time. It will probably save you skin on one of these long yellow flag races. Trust me.

Wiring is a piece of cake, don't even need your regular wiring harness. I could probably come up with a schematic. Get a regulator also.

Ecotec no problem need a motor plate and drive line.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Guess I'm "Jonesy" now :)- so be it then, it's a priviledge to be acknowledged by Ol' Dad...
Well, I tell you what; let's see how I do at Montpelier next year, and if Wally (my GSXR) is still alive and I get the itch to go to Tulsa I'll figure the alternator out. And if I can't I'm sure I'll get all the help and advice I need right here...
The Ecotec comment was a joke. Maybe.:6:

Originally Posted by jjones752:
I see several on eBay, in the $50.00-$125.00 range. I dunno, though; hafta figure out how to splice it back into the (drastically cut down) harness, and for one show a year? Maybe I'd be better off runnin the old geez(x)er till she blows and spring for an upgrade like Pat Mead's doing this winter; anybody ever put an Ecotec in a Doemelt? :18:

Not an ecotec but I did see a quad 4 Bailey upright . :)

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Guess I'm "Jonesy" now :)- so be it then, it's a priviledge to be acknowledged by Ol' Dad...
Well, I tell you what; let's see how I do at Montpelier next year, and if Wally (my GSXR) is still alive and I get the itch to go to Tulsa I'll figure the alternator out. And if I can't I'm sure I'll get all the help and advice I need right here...
The Ecotec comment was a joke. Maybe.:6:

You are welcome.

We have lost races before because that darned battery went south running that fuel pump and ignition on long drawn out yellow flag laps. I wouldn't race without a generator.


Bill Jones aka Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

I was wondering what would it take to get more Indiana and Ohio cars to load up and go out to the Shootout. This is a great race track with all kinds of tradition and prestige involved with it. Just that Golden Driller should be enough incentive to go but I guess a 2000 mile trip at $4.00 a gallon fuel has a huge dampening effect on traveling to Tulsa.

We went the first race and if I could I would have gone last year also.

What is holding us back and what could we do to increase our numbers.

Would a $1500.00 or $2000,00 to win main event help persuade us.

Would a few more races during the show help make up our minds.

Would a Junket type deal work where we could get a truck to haul our cars and equipment out and then we could either fly or drive out.

We talk and talk about how we want this class to grow, but when what should be the the biggest race of the year rolls around we are all at home watching that dumb ball fall on Time Square.

WHAT IS OUR PROBLEM?:15:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
You are welcome.

We have lost races before because that darned battery went south running that fuel pump and ignition on long drawn out yellow flag laps. I wouldn't race without a generator.


Bill Jones aka Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Seems to have run several years without one so we'll see how it goes. One more bonus about mechanical injection: no pesky electric fuel pump to add drain on the battery, and instant shutoff in a "shunt" as the British say. Okay, that's two bonuses...:)

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Seems to have run several years without one so we'll see how it goes. One more bonus about mechanical injection: no pesky electric fuel pump to add drain on the battery, and instant shutoff in a "shunt" as the British say. Okay, that's two bonuses...:)

Jonesy

I forgot that you had mechanical fuel injection under your bonnet. I still fancy dynamo's tho.

Honest dad himself:6::6:

My other motorcar is a 1959 Austin Healey 100-6.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
Jonesy

I forgot that you had mechanical fuel injection under your bonnet. I still fancy dynamo's tho.

Honest dad himself:6::6:

My other motorcar is a 1959 Austin Healey 100-6.

Getting to be summat of a Limey convo, innit?
O.T. I once owned a '59 Bugeye Sprite (or Frogeye, in Brit-speak) with electrics by Lucas (AKA "the Prince of Darkness"), so I'm already somewhat familiar with a "total-loss" sparking arrangement...:11;

"Stay calm, and Motor on"

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Getting to be summat of a Limey convo, innit?
O.T. I once owned a '59 Bugeye Sprite (or Frogeye, in Brit-speak) with electrics by Lucas (AKA "the Prince of Darkness"), so I'm already somewhat familiar with a "total-loss" sparking arrangement...:11;

"Stay calm, and Motor on"

Jonesy

Those of us who race Kawasaki ZX10R in our mini sprints use the oiling system developed by the JAP motorcycle racers of old, Total Loss Lubrication.

Never expect a motorcar with Lucas electrics to work in the rain. That always bothered me about the Brit's.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Call me a brat but the Shootout is pretty expensive racing when you think about it. 4-5 days there, all that money for "maybe" 40-50 laps total. But the bonus...........you get to set around 95% of those days listening to 600's run and hanging out in a very crowded pit area. Told you I was a brat........

Looking at the costs if there are two in your crew...........around $32-$35 PER LAP!!!!!!!

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
Call me a brat but the Shootout is pretty expensive racing when you think about it. 4-5 days there, all that money for "maybe" 40-50 laps total. But the bonus...........you get to set around 95% of those days listening to 600's run and hanging out in a very crowded pit area. Told you I was a brat........

Looking at the costs if there are two in your crew...........around $32-$35 PER LAP!!!!!!!

Its way better then sitting at home watching tv or starring at the snow. Last year was my first year and i had a blast. I wish it was 2-3 times a year. sure its expensive but what isnt in racing its all about the prestige of the race. I wish we could get more cars maybe a 100+ then they would start to look at us more and think we had something going and you would truly have the best there running for the driller. either way ill be there supporting it hoping it never ends but if you guys want a indoor race closer to home just head on over to duquoin in february

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by buckshot3448:
Its way better then sitting at home watching tv or starring at the snow. Last year was my first year and i had a blast. I wish it was 2-3 times a year. sure its expensive but what isnt in racing its all about the prestige of the race. I wish we could get more cars maybe a 100+ then they would start to look at us more and think we had something going and you would truly have the best there running for the driller. either way ill be there supporting it hoping it never ends but if you guys want a indoor race closer to home just head on over to duquoin in february

Is the DuQuoin race a sure thing? Where can we get more info?

Dad: re: "Never expect a motorcar with Lucas electrics to work in the rain. That always bothered me about the Brit's."
A light mist would send a fog spray up under the bonnet of my Sprite and short the coil out. You'd think people who live on a fog-shrouded island would've figured that out, yeah?

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Is the DuQuoin race a sure thing? Where can we get more info?

yes i had a flyer somewhere, I believe they are making new flyers to hand out at tulsa. the guy that promotes the flat track races i believe is doing it. there will be wing and non wing 600's and the non wing lightning sprints

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Duquoin would be great news if it happens.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

I would expect them to announce it with in the next month i would think

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
Call me a brat but the Shootout is pretty expensive racing when you think about it. 4-5 days there, all that money for "maybe" 40-50 laps total. But the bonus...........you get to set around 95% of those days listening to 600's run and hanging out in a very crowded pit area. Told you I was a brat........

Looking at the costs if there are two in your crew...........around $32-$35 PER LAP!!!!!!!

Phil

Then what would it take to get you to go out there again.

2 classes >>>wing and non wing

$5000.00 to win

You are half way there. I am already pretty tired by the time I get to St Louis and you guys are just starting out.

Those 600cc guys don't get any more laps than we do, but there are so many of them it just takes them forever to run through a class.

They are a true success story, Isn't that what we are after, after all. Five hundred 1000cc Mini sprints racing for half a dozen Golden Drillers.

Be careful what you wish for it could come true.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

If you have an old blown up zx10r laying around I would be glad to send you a cam lift checker with directions and you can try it out on me. For that matter it would work just as well on your race motor.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Finding an easy way to check cam lift would be nice without having to yank the valve cover off. Being the motor man that I am not.........wouldn't a higher lift cam necessitate more valve relief even on stock pistons? Obviously I don't know how much clearance is built into the valve relief on a piston. Plus unless we degree the cam, we don't know the duration/profile in relation to stock but again........would that create a valve relief issue? So.......if we can determine the piston is stock configuration, any small changes in the cam would not be big HP advantages? At least not enough to worry about unless I am out to lunch. ?????

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
Call me a brat but the Shootout is pretty expensive racing when you think about it. 4-5 days there, all that money for "maybe" 40-50 laps total. But the bonus...........you get to set around 95% of those days listening to 600's run and hanging out in a very crowded pit area. Told you I was a brat........

Looking at the costs if there are two in your crew...........around $32-$35 PER LAP!!!!!!!

OW44 I though you and I would NEVER agree on anything....but...you are 200 gazillion % right on this one. ....Hot laps 2 sessions of 6 day 2...Day 1 is move in...Day 3 ... 2 heats of 10...made the show....Day 4 LCQ...did not run...20 lap A finished 5th....total cost..fuel...pit passes and entry fees ...rooms...eats...tires...rental electric... $3,128.32 for 4 ....46 total laps = $68.01 per lap.... Pay out for 1 race only...

so let me plug Florida winternationals 4 day event....

Day 1 Practice...25.00 per person no other fees...4 hours of practice

Day 2 ...Complete show ...$25.00 PP ... $30.00 sactioning fee, per car...hot laps 8 per session...2 sessions each... Quailifing each car...10 lap heat races "B" main if needed...20 lap a main....$500.00 to win $50.00 to start

Day 3 ...same as Day 2

Day 4 .. Same as day 3 except more payout Top to Bottom plus contingency awards....They (Tulsa) have a Golden Driller...
The Bullring has A BRONZE BULL

3 COMPLETE SHOWS....Rooms this year because it will be a week after Daytona 49.00 each

less call Day 1 min. 30 laps
Day 2 hotlaps=12 ..Qual.=3 ..heat race=10 ..feature=20
Day 3 hotlaps=12 ..Qual.=3 ..heat race=10 ..feature=20
Day 4 hotlaps=12 ..Qual.=3 ..heat race=10 ..feature=30
Total laps for 4 days = 170 ...Est. cost from Indiana/Ill. $1600-$2000 for a crew of 4....=170 div. $1800=$10.58 per lap.....

kinda an observation on my part...I will say this...if you have never been to Tulsa it is worth the experience........
Oh and I must say this....80* around the 1st of March plus for all you "YOUNG" whippersnappers...Spring break at Daytona Beach along with Bike week starting for us "OLD" farts

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
I was wondering what would it take to get more Indiana and Ohio cars to load up and go out to the Shootout. This is a great race track with all kinds of tradition and prestige involved with it. Just that Golden Driller should be enough incentive to go but I guess a 2000 mile trip at $4.00 a gallon fuel has a huge dampening effect on traveling to Tulsa.

We went the first race and if I could I would have gone last year also.

What is holding us back and what could we do to increase our numbers.

Would a $1500.00 or $2000,00 to win main event help persuade us.

Would a few more races during the show help make up our minds.

Would a Junket type deal work where we could get a truck to haul our cars and equipment out and then we could either fly or drive out.

We talk and talk about how we want this class to grow, but when what should be the the biggest race of the year rolls around we are all at home watching that dumb ball fall on Time Square.

WHAT IS OUR PROBLEM?:15:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

If I had a car and motor competitive to run Tulsa I would come from ohio and run it maybe next year.

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
Finding an easy way to check cam lift would be nice without having to yank the valve cover off. Being the motor man that I am not.........wouldn't a higher lift cam necessitate more valve relief even on stock pistons? Obviously I don't know how much clearance is built into the valve relief on a piston. Plus unless we degree the cam, we don't know the duration/profile in relation to stock but again........would that create a valve relief issue? So.......if we can determine the piston is stock configuration, any small changes in the cam would not be big HP advantages? At least not enough to worry about unless I am out to lunch. ?????

Phil

The problem is there are not too many motor people out there. There fore when some one tell the non motor person that they think so and so is illegal, even if the other person is no more knowledgeable than the other. The statement is taken as truth and the ugly term cheater raises it head.

You were probably told by a person no more knowledgeable than myself that the Horsepower was in the head or better known as Volumetric Efficiency. The higher the VE is the more power your engine will make. We can even move the rpm that the VE is highest at by moving the opening and closing events of the valves. Creating either a "TORQUER" or a "WINDER" motor. I believe this to still be a very true statement.

I took one of my many blown up engines, I cut off half of number 1 cylinder head leaving the remaining 2 valves visible. When we do this one can see just how close the valves get to the piston at TDC. We have less than >.050" t0 .070" between the piston and valves as the piston comes up on the TDC overlap portion of the stroke. This does not leave a lot of room to change cam duration on the cam as we did on the old automotive push rod engine. So the only way to get more air and fuel in the motor is to increase the valve lift.

Because of the difference in measuring valve opening and closing events between the OEM and aftermarket cam grinders it is hard to compare the difference in camshaft duration between stock and modified cams. It only varies about 20 degrees or so, that piston keeps getting in the way.

However they can weld on the nose of the cam and then grind it down keeping almost stock duration but increasing the lift thus making the engine more powerful. The pistons would not have to be changed to do this, but it might require heavier valve springs to take the RPM's up to where the cam starts making any real horsepower.

Using Web cams specs.

The intake gross lift on a stock zx10r's is .......... .354 inches or 9.1MM

The intake gross lift on Web cam's performance cams vary between .384"-.400" or 9.85mm to 10.25mm. Maximum lift.

That 46 one thousandth of an inch will make a difference at racing speeds. And it does not show up a whole lot on the degree wheel. Another interesting fact is the more fuel and air you cram into a cylinder the louder the "Bang" when it ignites.

That extra lift would show up like a Baby Ruth Bar in the Punch Bowl with the cam lift checker.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by Wayne Davis:
OW44 I though you and I would NEVER agree on anything....but...you are 200 gazillion % right on this one. ....Hot laps 2 sessions of 6 day 2...Day 1 is move in...Day 3 ... 2 heats of 10...made the show....Day 4 LCQ...did not run...20 lap A finished 5th....total cost..fuel...pit passes and entry fees ...rooms...eats...tires...rental electric... $3,128.32 for 4 ....46 total laps = $68.01 per lap.... Pay out for 1 race only...

so let me plug Florida winternationals 4 day event....

Day 1 Practice...25.00 per person no other fees...4 hours of practice

Day 2 ...Complete show ...$25.00 PP ... $30.00 sactioning fee, per car...hot laps 8 per session...2 sessions each... Quailifing each car...10 lap heat races "B" main if needed...20 lap a main....$500.00 to win $50.00 to start

Day 3 ...same as Day 2

Day 4 .. Same as day 3 except more payout Top to Bottom plus contingency awards....They (Tulsa) have a Golden Driller...
The Bullring has A BRONZE BULL

3 COMPLETE SHOWS....Rooms this year because it will be a week after Daytona 49.00 each

less call Day 1 min. 30 laps
Day 2 hotlaps=12 ..Qual.=3 ..heat race=10 ..feature=20
Day 3 hotlaps=12 ..Qual.=3 ..heat race=10 ..feature=20
Day 4 hotlaps=12 ..Qual.=3 ..heat race=10 ..feature=30
Total laps for 4 days = 170 ...Est. cost from Indiana/Ill. $1600-$2000 for a crew of 4....=170 div. $1800=$10.58 per lap.....

kinda an observation on my part...I will say this...if you have never been to Tulsa it is worth the experience........
Oh and I must say this....80* around the 1st of March plus for all you "YOUNG" whippersnappers...Spring break at Daytona Beach along with Bike week starting for us "OLD" farts

Wayne

I would suggest contacting Collin Ambrose, He might have some other "BULL PARTS" you could get and have Gold plated to award your winners.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Tulsa Shootout Rules 1200cc's
 

Originally Posted by hoscalecody:
If I had a car and motor competitive to run Tulsa I would come from ohio and run it maybe next year.

Hos

Don't worry about your motor dang it. Work on set up and you will do fine out there. It is really hard for a racer who does not have non wing experience to get hooked up out there. They sure miss that big old side board.

Pick me up on your way over.

Honest Dad himself:6::6: