Lightning Sprint Question........
 

MALS is considering closing out the year with a slightly larger purse race. Nothing is set in stone yet but we would like a little feedback before we take this any farther. Looking at everyone's schedules....MMSA ,AMSA, WIMS, ILLS, RMMSA, and MLS everyone's seaons seems to be wound down by the end of Sept. As many of you know, our normal purse is $650 to win and $70 to start. Like I said.....we would bump that purse up to around $1000 to win, add some in all positions and leave our mileage pay bonus system we have implemented all year. That $1000 to win is NOT based on any minimum car count either. Basically.....A race with roughly a $5000 purse plus mileage incentives centered around 20 cars. We are thinking the end of Sept. or the first weekend in Oct.

Let alone some will be "raced out" and "burned out," we realize weather can become a large issue. Our question is plain and simple...........is anyone truly interested? I know it is easy to say "HELL YES, COLOR ME THERE!" But then reality sets in and something unfortunately comes up. We are asking for honest opinions before we pursue this any further. Any feedback would be extremely appreciated. I am big boy so lay it on me.......good or bad.

Might be a good time for some of us to have a "preliminary" get together to discuss the pesky "National Rules" some people don't want. Obviously, the clock is ticking and we need to decide "yay or nay" on this fairly quickly.

Thanks in advance. Please either respond here, email me or call............(913) 371-5212 or jmillwright@kc.rr.com

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

I would count us in for at least 2 cars. This would be very good for the sport and we would gladly support it.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

What track are you looking to run the event at?

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

At this point........one of two possible tracks near the Kansas City Area.

Hi PhiL, It would be nice if you could get a race the night before the big Peoria race if they are still having it the end of September. Just my opinion. I was going to try and make that if all goes well. Don

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

My personal opinion is dont do it around the peoria race. You risk hurting both car counts. I for one wouldn't even be interested if it was the day before. maybe the weekend after would be better. Also you guys usually run the bigger tracks. I think if you kept it at 1/4 mile or smaller the better. I have a feeling your thinking about running at atchison? That would be the perfect little bull ring for something like this. We would definitely be interested in coming over for it as long as it didnt hurt our peoria plans.

Spiker Racing Products will bring at least 2 cars.

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

After looking at schedules, ILSS, MMSA, WIMS, and AMSA are done after the ILSS Memorial Race. MLS has I-35 on their schedule through the end of September (with Sept 28 as a "possible national event").

I would say September 28 (you guys with MLS - if they're even doing a national event).

This is just my input, not even saying we're coming, but we would consider it depending on the track. I can say for myself that if it's the first weekend in October, I will instead be attending Gold Crown at Tri-City. To note: Roger hasn't had much luck scheduling a race in October (with weather and cars being done).

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

While it sounds enticing to schedule a race the same weekend as the Peoria race, I wouldn't do that out of respect for what they are doing. I wouldn't want to jeopardize their car count. Besides......Friday night for most folks would be a booger to get to. School has started back up by late Sept. and that presents problems in itself. Sunday night is just as bad since many have to go to work Monday.

And no.......wouldn't be ACR (Atchison). Either a quarter mile track or a "large" quarter mile track. And yes.......Bob Douglas (MLS) and myself talked about some sort of "National" caliber event at the beginning of the year for possibly this year. That would be rehashed/explored if this seems feasible. Just trying to get a pulse of the situation so we can either move on this or put it to rest.

What is the chances that this race could be a open national event. Beat the bushes, and get every mini sprint to the track.
1000s, old 1200s, stock engines, built engines. Make the pay through the field.
After the races maybe the next day open meeting about national rule structure. Open town hall meeting style. Racers from every group could be present and explain there positions. The cars are out there Phil, if we can get them to play together we would really have something.

Lets make it stock engine package so there is no crying that someone has a big engine. By the way I have a new stock engine package for you all to check.

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

you cant get the car counts if you just allow stock engines. we even open the rules up for the archdale race to get the higher car count.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Isn't that counterproductive to achieving a "stock motor" rule? Reading this forum the other day with all the responses, it seemed there were a hell of a lot more racers wanting stock motor rules compared to open motor rules. Maybe I read that all wrong? And how many "open motors" are actually out there? Or are most of these people lying that say their motors are stock?

Money brings the cars. Period. Ya think if you went with stock motor rules, more stock motors might show up knowing they are on level playing field rather than setting it out not wanting to fight an open motor rule? Not trying to be a smart a$$, just don't understand the logic here. Seemed the majority wanted to go stock rules in earlier discussions but now you are talking open motors as the preference??? What did I miss?

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
Isn't that counterproductive to achieving a "stock motor" rule? Reading this forum the other day with all the responses, it seemed there were a hell of a lot more racers wanting stock motor rules compared to open motor rules. Maybe I read that all wrong? And how many "open motors" are actually out there? Or are most of these people lying that say their motors are stock?

Money brings the cars. Period. Ya think if you went with stock motor rules, more stock motors might show up knowing they are on level playing field rather than setting it out not wanting to fight an open motor rule? Not trying to be a smart a$$, just don't understand the logic here. Seemed the majority wanted to go stock rules in earlier discussions but now you are talking open motors as the preference??? What did I miss?

Perhaps you are a bit "ANAL" when thinking about motor rules. There is a much better post on page 5 now with right at 9100 hits that Bill relegated into infinity.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Fine..........call me anal. Call me anything you want. I saw a majority leaning toward "stock motor rules" which I agree with and evidently a handful that want open motor rules which tells me they must have what would be considered an "open motor."

Back to the original topic...........

Looking at race dates available...............Sept. 28th appears to be the best at this point. Trouble is........a week after the Archdale Memorial. Is that to soon to expect travelers? Would it be better to schedule for Oct. and pray the weather holds out? Remember.....once again......we offer that mileage pay as we have all year and I might add......it has been taken advantage of which has pleased Mark and I tremendously.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Originally Posted by openwheel44:
Fine..........call me anal. Call me anything you want. I saw a majority leaning toward "stock motor rules" which I agree with and evidently a handful that want open motor rules which tells me they must have what would be considered an "open motor."

Back to the original topic...........

Looking at race dates available...............Sept. 28th appears to be the best at this point. Trouble is........a week after the Archdale Memorial. Is that to soon to expect travelers? Remember.....once again......we offer that mileage pay as we have all year and I might add......it has been taken advantage of which has pleased Mark and I tremendously.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, altho I have been part and parcel of several stock motor rule racing classes, and in a perfect world, it can be made to sound like it would be less expensive to run in, but this world is far from perfect, and the only man I know of, able to run a "stock" class motor, was a guy in Illinois, you may have run across his operation, but he made it work, now I realize this would be impossible in almost any other form of racing, but he owned the track, and ran it with his wife and kids, and they used "stock" motors. The deal was, when you went there to race, you paid your money, and you drew a chit, with a number on it, you took it to the next station, and gave it to the person behind the counter, who went to the motor room, put that chit on a nail, and pulled the engine off the shelf and that was your motor for the night, it was already to go, just add fuel, and mount it to your kart, race it, and turn it back in at the end of the racing, then thru the week, his sons would pull the maintance on the motors, and randomly put them back on the shelves, so no one ever got the same engine twice, and it worked very well. like I say, this would not work in this type of racing, but that is the one fool proof way to keep engines stock, me, I'd probably ck one by a draw, and just ck bore and stroke, or cc it, and not make a big deal out of it, most of the bad cheaters are usually poor drivers, and run in the back anyway, so if you do a random draw, you'll eventually catch the one's that have trouble with the "stock" rule. Just my 2 cents worth. Bob

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Good points Bob and I for one appreciate your input. I have been around enough "stock" classes I know what a pain it can be. It doesn't have to be that bad. No one is looking to split cases and remove heads at this point. At least no one that I know of. Just looking at bore/stroke, compression PSI, fuel and possibly cam lift if need be. Look a the top of the pistons with a borescope. We have been doing the basics at the MALS races and it doesn't take that long. We do the top three. If someone watched a guy blast from dead last to 4th or 5th in only a few laps..........they might get checked also. This is about common sense. It wouldn't have to be as difficult as some are painting. We know........we have been doing it. I have no idea why some are fighting the idea of stock motors so much. Baffles the sh*t out of me.

Getting side tracked again and really wanting to get a handle on whether to schedule a "National" race this year. Just trying to pick as many brains as possible before this investment is made. I could just as easy blow it off, go street rodding, Harley riding or even fishing and call it a year but I really would like to have another race to close out the year...............

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

By opening the motor rule up we also alow the 1200 cars. you may get 3-4 "built" motors but it lets all the 1200's run which alot of guys in wisconsin fall under that category. now if you already let all those run then i wouldnt worry about it but we dont so thats a main reason why we allow them. They also have to weigh a 1000 pounds i believe too. Also its a one time race i dont see allowing these cars for this race hurts anything.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

MALS and MLS has been "grandfathering" the older 1200's by adding additional weight just like we have been doing with the ZX-12's. The key word........GRANDFATHERING. I see nothing wrong with that. However, our 1000cc motors have been following our stated rules/tech for the year. That doesn't mean we aren't flexible for special events if need be. We just want to do what is right and good for the class in the long run. We agree.....special races "might" require special considerations. Me......I would prefer box stock on the 1000cc, ZX-12's (stock with added weight) and the old style 1200's (with added weight) to finish out the year. But I am not the only one involved.

And this makes me really think. Do I go ahead and put new rings in my 1127 and finish out the year or do I scrap this year and the engine and save for a 1000 for next year and beyond. I'm a shoe string buget guy...lol Some good discussions have been going on. Just hope the powers that be work something out for everyone's sake.

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Originally Posted by PatrickMead#13:
And this makes me really think. Do I go ahead and put new rings in my 1127 and finish out the year or do I scrap this year and the engine and save for a 1000 for next year and beyond. I'm a shoe string buget guy...lol Some good discussions have been going on. Just hope the powers that be work something out for everyone's sake.

How much to freshen the 1127?
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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Phil when I said every mini sprint I was kinda vague. I'm on the same page as you on working towards a completly stock 1000 limit. I'm just saying get all these guys together, and see what we have. For instance many cars in our neck of the woods are match ported and polished. Many cars out in our area and Ohio are missing crank balancers.. I'm not meaning let 1070 stroker motors come out and make everyone look slow. Money will bring the cars but in the same since if you push the money through the field one guy won't be cashing out and running, and at the same time all these different cars and owners can get together and learn more about what rules are worthy and will be able to be enforced.
It would be nice to see guys like Harvey, Hench , Larry Fause, Mike from Hyper, Wayne Davis, Bill May, Jerry Tauge... As well as the racers who keep these guys in business sit and plan a direction for this sport.

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
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it'll be in the 350 range. i'm just having issues finding rings. its been bored and nobody knows what brand pistons they are.

ironically, i have a fresh 07 gsxr600 sitting behind me in my office as we speak that if it would be competitive, it would be going in the car....lol

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

You'll never know til you "hook er up", beats sittin at home with a broke motor you can't find parts for, hell, you might like it, I'm happy with my 600 Yamaha against the 836 Honda's, it's usually a top 5 car, and a whole lot cheaper. Bob

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

MALS has started off strong this season thanks to our local racers. As Phil has indicated we would like to close out our season with a $1000 to win race. On Aug. 30 there is a $750 to win winged race in the Kansas City area at Valley Speedway which is 3 hr west of St. Louis. Grain Valley Speedway is a ¼ mile track. MALS may have an opportunity to race the next night approximately 1hr west of St. Louis on Aug. 31st for $1000 to win on roughly the same size track. We need to know pretty quickly how many travelers we can count on if we are able to book the Aug. 31st date? So you could come to Missouri and race the Labor Day weekend for $1750 to win over two nights. plus some would be eligible for our tow money incentive also. If you don’t want to post on here that you would be interested in coming you can email or call Phil his contact information is at the start of this thread on page one. We would allow MMSA rules at this event.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Ambrose have the rite rule!!! Open the motor rules to whatever they want inside 1000cc and put us on hard tires ! Sp3 rr d 12 or harder ... That way motors don't matter !

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Drew,,, does that mean your in our out for this labor day weekend special if it happens?

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

There are MANY ways to allow EVERYONE to compete....this is my National/Winternational rules....one way is this one note that allows everyone to compete

NOTE: IN THE EVENT THAT SOMEONE DECLARES THEY HAVE A "BUILT ENGINE" prior to said event, they will be required to run a SP-4 Hoosier or equivalent and the HEAVIEST allocated weight for MC engine powered car.....





SPECIFICATIONS "No titanium anywhere on car"

ENGINE -- Engine shall be limited to following engines that fits into a midget or lightning/mini sprint. The rules are structured to allow a lack of traction to balance the playing field. If any engines prove detrimental to competition and the spirit of sportsman midget racing, a restricted program or other (such as HARDER RR tire and/or weight) may be instituted.

MIDGET ENGINES
• Any Chevy (Ecotec) or Ford (focus) Quad 4 inline 4 cyl. configuration. No larger then a 2.4 litre. Must have STOCK FACTORY internal parts from valve cover to oil pan, with factory casting #'s...... Exception is the 2.2 ecotec chevy engine will be allowed to run the stage III Comp Cam to increase the HP to the 2.4 equivalent.
A. Engine offset is limited to a maximum of one (1) inch, two (2) inches overall, from the chassis centerline as measured at the centerline of the crankshaft.
B. Engines must be mounted on the centerline of the chassis and the crankshaft must be parallel to the bottom plane of the chassis.
C. Only torque tube type drivelines, utilizing only one u-joint, will be allowed, the torque tube must be one solid piece. A torque tube hoop or strap is mandatory.
D. The driver shall be seated directly behind the engine; drivers head can be no more than one (1) inch off center line of roll cage, measured at center line of seat to top of driver’s helmet when seated in an upright position.

• NO “national class” race engines, engines that qualify under the rules/guidelines of USAC, ARDC, Poweri, etc., or are produced or built by a/any major race engine builder, ie., Gaerte, TRD Toyota, Esslinger, Pink, Fontana, new style Chevy, Stanton MOPAR, etc. STOCK ENGINES ONLY

The current approved engines are the General Motors 2.3 and 2.4 “Quad 4” engines, Chevy Ecotec, USAC Ford 2.0 Z-tec Focus engine. The Division 2 Midget Series must approve all other engines. Any new engines must fit the following requirements:

ANY ENGINE THAT PRODUCES MORE THE 200 "STOCK" HP is not allowed.

MOTORCYCLE ENGINE
4-Cycle motorcycle engine with a Minimum 600cc. and Maxium of 1206cc. Maximum 6-inch offset; measured C/L of motor to C/L of frame.

No after market internal parts, nor lightening of stock parts." "The only modifications allowed are (1) Milling the head, (may save a warped head) (2) degreeing cams", all other deviations from stock (bolts,springs,removing parts, etc) will require written approval from the SSM. Anything else done to the engine it will be considered "BUILT" (see note)

Both ENGINE Car and motorcycle General Rules

ALL NON SEALED ENGINES will have headers and Intake remove for possible head work if you finish in the top 3...Also if you have a top 3 finish 3 straight any non sealed engine will have to remove cam cover, spark plugs and oil to have cam/pistons/rods scoped
No engine can excide 230 lbs compression.

• Electric self-starting engines – Must be able to start in a neutral position at all times and must be able to be "BUMPED STARTED"

• FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM Naturally aspirated: carburetors or fuel injection. Fuel injection may be either constant flow or EFI. EFI systems must be comprised of OEM "STOCK"throttle bodies (stock inside diameter), and ECU. No ram air systems allowed.
• No turbo chargers or superchargers allowed.
• No traction Control is allowed in any form. If your engine comes with an ECU that has traction control it must be DISABLED...This form of racing is about DRIVER CONTROL.....NOT ELECTRONIC control

NOTE: IN THE EVENT THAT SOMEONE DECLARES THEY HAVE A "BUILT ENGINE" prior to said event, they will be required to run a SP-4 Hoosier or equivalent and the HEAVIEST allocated weight for MC engine powered car.....

DRIVE TRAIN
• Direct drive with quick-change rear end. Drive shaft must be enclosed with a torque tube. Torque tubes must have a torque tube hoop or tether strap.
• Chain drive. Chains must be properly guarded. If within the frame rails, the chain guard must be minimum 14 gauge stainless steel, 12 gauge mild steel, or 3/32” tempered 2024 aluminum, and designed to completely shield and protect the driver and the fuel tank (if the fuel tank is in line with the chain) from the chain. The guard must be designed to prevent the chain from entering the driver’s compartment.
MUFFLERS
• Tracks that require a muffler it must be capable of keeping the noise level at or below 98 dB.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Wayne, that is the single most brilliant update I have seen to any proposed"National" rule; that would allow those of us with older "mystery" motors the ability to come out and have some fun. I'd suggest adding some sort of consequence for not being candid about what's inside (forfeiture of points/prize money, suspension from "National" events for a period of time, something like that).
Not that I'm planning a trip out to MO for this proposed event; I'm a diehard non-wing guy and I suspect this is planned to be a wing show. It would make me consider a trip to Florida next Winter, though (assuming I ever get my car back together :D)

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Originally Posted by :
MALS has started off strong this season thanks to our local racers. As Phil has indicated we would like to close out our season with a $1000 to win race. On Aug. 30 there is a $750 to win winged race in the Kansas City area at Valley Speedway which is 3 hr west of St. Louis. Grain Valley Speedway is a ¼ mile track. MALS may have an opportunity to race the next night approximately 1hr west of St. Louis on Aug. 31st for $1000 to win on roughly the same size track. We need to know pretty quickly how many travelers we can count on if we are able to book the Aug. 31st date? So you could come to Missouri and race the Labor Day weekend for $1750 to win over two nights. plus some would be eligible for our tow money incentive also. If you don’t want to post on here that you would be interested in coming you can email or call Phil his contact information is at the start of this thread on page one. We would allow MMSA rules at this event.

OK guys this thread was not started to hammer out rules. Lets focus!

Mid America Lightning Sprints has an opportunity to race on Aug. 31st and our sponsor Jayhawk Millwright needs to know if we can get enough participation form travelers to sponsor this event? Total payout if we can get a commitment from enough travelers will be $5000 which means $1000 to win Guaranteed, 2nd $500, 3rd $450, 4h $375, 5th $325 Base on 20 cars. Second thru what ever is on a sliding scale but it does not drop off that great. If we get 15 cars for instance it would be 1st $1000 Guaranteed, 2nd $550, 3rd $400, 4th $350 5th $275

The track has agree to host our event, the sponsor wants to sponsor this event, do the racers want to run this event? This track is 5hr from Indianapolis.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

I would love to be there!! I haven't hit my arse all year but deffinately planning on being there if its a go!!

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

with peoria running on the 31st we wont be there.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Looks like there is a 99.99% chance of the MALS race on August 31st is going to happen!!!!

Working on the purse.........$1000 to win, $100 to start with an excellent pay back down the line. As mentioned, the mileage pay bonus will be made available once again for this race. At this point, we are racing with the MOWA sprint cars and some sort of Vintage Class. More information will become available Monday. Remember..........there is a race at Valley Speedway in Grain Valley on August 30th that is paying $750 to win put on by MLS so you can run there, and head east on down the road to Montgomery City Speedway and run the MALS race the next night. Both tracks are right off I-70.

I will be there for both events on the 30th and 31st

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Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

Sorry the payout for 20 cars that I posted earlier is incorrect. It should read 1st $1000 Guaranteed 2nd $650 NOT $500 3rd then is $500 4th is $450 5th is $375 6th is $325. Complete payout will be available soon.

Sorry for the confusion.

We will also be posting info on our web site at www.midamericalightningsprints.com as soon as it becomes availble.

Re: Lightning Sprint Question........
 

I am very pleased to announce this race is a GO!! Start making plans now to attend the labor day weekends Mid-America Lightning Sprints Presented by Jayhawk Millwright $1000 to win Aug. 31st race at Montgomery Motorsports park in Montgomery City MO. The track is right off of I-70 1hr west of St. Louis MO.

Mid-America Lightning Sprints Presented by Jayhawk Millwright will be supporting MOWA 410 sprints. As with all MALS races this is a winged race.

Complete payout will be release early next week.

Our website is www.midamericalightningsprints.com