Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

After opening weekend of ISW I was wondering if ISW could happen without USAC. Back in the day, when USAC came to town, they brought cars and stars that I didnt usually get to see throughout the rest of the year. But today, I'm gonna say with very few exceptions, I can go see almost any of these guys running a regular weekly show somewhere in Indiana. Yes its kool that the southern Indiana guys come up to Kokomo, who may not make the trip weekly, and the Northern guys hit Lawrenceburg and Haubstadt, for one week a year, but what I mean is that the family we all know as sprint car racing really isnt USAC....It is the hard working track owners, the fans who come out whether its sprint week or not, the teams working all week to make it back to their regular track on a week by week basis from May thru August in Indiana...Im not trying to ruffle too many feathers here, but what is it that USAC really brings to the show? If the track owners could pull it off, could ISW be run as a true outlaw (meaning no sanctioning body) event? I only think of this because Ive been USAC'd many times, and although I respect the tradition they represent, I also think they are way slow and too stubborn to change with the times, and Ive seen local shows that are sometimes way better than a USAC show. So I guess my real question is; what is it USAC brings to the show that local owners/promoters/teams/fans need? PS to further my point, it is great to see the Texas kid, the Pensylvania team, the 305 steel block kid and others come to ISW, but I think they came because it's THE place to be in non wing racing, not because its a USAC race.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by ShamrockRacin'48G:
...........because Ive been USAC'd many times..................
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Have an axe to grind, maybe ??

It started with out USAC and they made it bigger and better..

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Pat O'Connor Fan:
Have an axe to grind, maybe ??

Doesn't sound like it to me, I've been wondering the same thing for a good while, seems like what it has turned into is a bigger gathering of the locals, with a few coming from out of State, and I don't see anything wrong with that, isn't that what makes people want to attend, why add someone else in the money tree? JMHO Bob

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

What I would like to see is more CRA guys make the trip consistently. Guys like Damion Gardner, Mike Spencer, and Matt Mitchell would only add to a good thing. I don't know if it takes USAC to incentivize these guys with points or tow money, or if the promotors could put together some sort of "bounty". But what we have is pretty darn good as it sits!

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

To answer the question... Yes, ISW could be done without USAC but I don't think that is a good idea. I wish ISW included every non-wing sanction.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

No axe to grind, but I will tell you that my friends and I learned long ago that if it was a USAC show, pack 6 more beers in the cooler because there was always a 30+ minute snag in the show due to inefficiency, we used to joke that the officials with the flat top haircuts needed to have a bologna sandwich as rest a little before finishing the show, hence the term USAC'd...I am just seriously posing the question of what does USAC really bring to the party? BTW I like Mr. Gardners response about all non wing groups coming together for this week....

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

An good topic this is.

It would be interesting to see the $$$ breakdown as for what a track has to pay out for a USAC show, how much sponsor $$$ USAC brings with them, how much sponsor $$$ the track has to come up with, etc. On one hand the tracks would not have to pay USAC anything to appear. On the other hand, putting it all together would be a bear of a job.

Looking at Ohio Sprint Speed Week, the All Stars run the show there. Races are mid-week. USAC Sprint Week takes the Monday & Tuesday off (at least this year). Seems to me the track with the mid-week spots are at a disadvantage, but then again, it would be interesting to see what they have to pay out for that race vice a Friday or Saturday Night race. Maybe they get a break?

Other tracks have gone without USAC for events and have been successful. Kokomo, for example, packed them in and had a great three day show last year for the Smackdown, and are doing it again. So, yes.... you can draw big w/o USAC, but this example is one track and one place over three days. It isn't scattered across multiple tracks over a week, or so. East Bay's 360 winter races are another example of one track with multiple races over three days with no sanctioning body calling the shots.

To run w/o USAC, someone will have to step up and put it all together - the $$$, the logistics, the sponsors, etc. Perhaps one track owner calling the shots? Then they will have to get the buy-ins from other tracks. Sooner or later one track is going to claim they are getting hosed somehow and then everything seems like it could go sideways from there, IMO. Unless you want to split the pot evenly...? Somehow....?

Pennsylvania Sprint Week runs their sprint week every year w/o a sanctioning body, if I am correct. It would be interesting to see how their system of $$$ works. It seems like a successful platform for them.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

USAC is part of the Smackdown.

I could be wrong but USAC pitched the idea to the O'Connors.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

The last show before USAC came on board had 13 cars. Only 2 guys ran all the races. The stands were empty. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

KISS seems to work w/o big brother... Pay the money and the racers will show up...

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Dont tell me you think USAC wont run against it if they are not sanctioning it. Without them you have.......a weeklong KISS. Anyone remember NAMARS 5-crown. After it became popular USAC decided to run out of state that week.....no more NAMARS 5-crown.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Now USAC has made it smaller and worse.!

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Posting in response to the origional post without having read any other response. SPRINT WEEK STARTED WITHOUT USAC by the promotors, It was winged the first couple years, The crowds were nothing like they are now and the payoff wasn't even close.

I ask again, whats so bad about it? They ain't point races for the regulars of the track so its not like they are forced too run it. My guess is they run it to run against THE BEST.

The only possible changed I'd make is make it five heats of eight and take three transfers. Id also make qualifying for heat lineups only and feature lineup on passing points to stop the SAFE TRANSFER in second place not really trying to get the lead, Because they get their qualifying spot back anyway.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

I just fail to see what USAC brings to the table, except more hands on your billfold, does it make the event any more prestigious, I don't think so, at one time maybe, but not lately, most people go away with the added cost factor on their minds, and, the same racing they coulda had without the extra cost, it doesn't make any more appeal to me, I know when we run as a "loss looser" with them, it hits in the wallet, and we don't see any extra in our payout. JMHO, I'm not a really die hard anything, except solitare, now that gets me shook up! Bob

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Why stir up something ...its sprint cars on dirt
great shows ,,,does not get any better than indiana sprint car racing ...come and enjoy ,,,or stay home ...been going for 50 + some years
just do take that away....:22::22:

Originally Posted by egh170:
Now USAC has made it smaller and worse.!

Not smaller. 3 of the top 5 car counts from all Indiana races have been ISW.

The people who are not competing or attending during ISW... Are the folks making it worse.

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ok hang on.....like I posted originally, Im not trying to really ruffle any feathers, I have no axe to grind....I think this week is the greatest week of the year, just like you do, and yes it is wildly successful..aside from
TQ29m, I think you all may be missing the point....What is it that USAC brings to the show? (so far, I have heard organization/scheduling and some kinda sponsorship)....I just wanna know what does USAC bring to the party?

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Really makes no sense to me to try to radically change a event that has grown to SRO crowds to suit what you want.

if it weren't for usac, a lot of the now local stars would still be in cali, et al, so yeah it could be done with a third (or less) of the top racers

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Originally Posted by ShamrockRacin'48G:
I just wanna know what does USAC bring to the party?

USAC brings racers and fans. We can debate the actual amount but ANYONE who has a positive impact on overall attendance makes ISW better.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

The Namars series was really cool..open sprint cars at 2k to win and brought in around 50 cars..and got close to 50 midgets each night of the 5 crown nationals..you had regional, local, national..and over seas drivers..The car counts are way up this year..at least the first 3 races..its been awhile since they have had over 50 cars for sprint week..i was skeptical if they would even get 40 this year..I dont know what they really bring to the table but they are well supported, bring in some of the best drivers, I just wish there would be more guys that come out from the Left coast maybe have more incentive/bonuses for those guys to come out here..

Tyler

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

If it ain't broke don't try and fix it. Dang I would love to have a problem like this in my backyard. You've got the best dang openwheel racing there is to be had ENJOY it!

Not starting a pissing match but car count up at sprint week shows because other tracks involved cant run their regular programs and with all the rainouts guys want to race. jmo

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by kcarm92:
Not starting a pissing match

It's a good thing... cuz you would lose.:3:;)

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by ruts n guts:
What I would like to see is more CRA guys make the trip consistently. Guys like Damion Gardner, Mike Spencer, and Matt Mitchell would only add to a good thing. I don't know if it takes USAC to incentivize these guys with points or tow money, or if the promotors could put together some sort of "bounty". But what we have is pretty darn good as it sits!

Really? USAC only uses 40 cars for a show why would you need more drivers and cars. I would of like to have seen 2 more heats and 2 B mains at the Burg Sunday night instead of the 2 non qualifiers and 12 Cars on the trailer before the night gets to far along. Many times the luck of the draw and the ever changing track for a late qualifiers is the difference between racing or going home. But drivers and fans alike know this going into ISW under the USAC banner and from the look of crowd we accept this.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Kokomo had 46 cars on Saturday, and Paragon had 42. That's 88 sprint cars running on one night.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Good point Kenny! Paragon had 44.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

USAC gets hammered a lot on here and IMO much of it is deserved. However I give them 2 thumbs up for what ISW has become.

:6::6:

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Cost about 12-15 thou to tow across country Fuel, Food, Lodging, pit passes for four for two weeks. If you miraculously won three, pay the driver half, your still out 6-8 grand. NOT INCLUDING DAMAGES

BE thankful for those who do!

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
USAC is part of the Smackdown.

I could be wrong but USAC pitched the idea to the O'Connors.

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Thank you, Bill. I was wrong about the Smackdown. I thought it was an open sprint contest.

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Carrying on with the topic, and what USAC brings, let me ask this question:

If we could wave a magic wand and run ISW w/o USAC, with all purses being equal, same dates, all the same tracks, all of those tracks getting the same share they are getting now, etc., w/o USAC what would you think the car count would be? More? Slightly more? Same? Less? Slightly less?

And WHY?

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
The last show before USAC came on board had 13 cars. Only 2 guys ran all the races. The stands were empty. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I could not agree more, it ain't broke. Apparently USAC brings the best equipment, best drivers, and the most fans. I can only attend one ISW show but based on my small sample USAC also brings the highest intensity. I can't explain why but the result speaks for itself. This is not to demean weekly shows which are also great in Indiana. ISW with USAC is special,at least for the fans, can't speak for owners or drivers.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
To answer the question... Yes, ISW could be done without USAC but I don't think that is a good idea. I wish ISW included every non-wing sanction.

MSCS puts on a good show as well as KISS.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

I m on my way to Indiana for the second year in a roll. Dont, ' attend many races at home but will drive 1200 miles because it is usac sprints. It's about tradition for me.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

the purse would be cut in half if the promoters ran isw.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Eldora was actually part of ISW once or twice. USAC was experimenting with wings and car counts were dismal at some tracks and promotors ran ISW started, USAC was not involved.

USAC has been great for both tracks and USAC. Some tracks survive on this event. LITTERALLY because they lose money on almost every non special show.

Usac and especially Sprint Week is great for driver exposure, Cant tell you how many Nascar and Indycar personalities I've seen at ISW events over the years. Yeah, we seem to lose one or two drivers every year and one of these NQer runners steps up the next year to take their place.

It ain't broke don't ruin it.. Maybe ten car groups qualifyng but still single car. But theres nothing wrong with the format.. Its not USAC's fault everyone wants to run it, In fact its a testament to how good it is.

As far as the stacked heats, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF IS and so is the B's.

See you at Terre Haute and LPS!

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Indiana Sprint Week before USAC came on board was nothing special. Crowds were all right but not like these days. I'm talking about the years when they ran wings and non wing. I really don't remember huge crowds for those years.

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We went to Kokomo for the first time in like 2 years this passed Saturday. Why? Because it was SprintWeek and I knew we'd get to see the best.....Stanbrough, Darland, Clauson, Hines, Bacon etc etc all in 1 night on 1 track. I live in Rochester, 45 minutes straight up 31, so its not like "its to far" or anything for a regular show.

We handed the track $60 for pit passes then Dave Darland another $65 for 2 shirts and a hat (gladly i might add!) and had our selves a great time!

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
Other tracks have gone without USAC for events and have been successful. Kokomo, for example, packed them in and had a great three day show last year for the Smackdown, and are doing it again. So, yes.... you can draw big w/o USAC, but this example is one track and one place over three days.

http://kokomotribune.com/sports/x946...day-show/print

Another thing USAC brings.
"I stood there and just imagined how I would want it if I were racing there. I tried to picture how things might look from the car. A lot of thought went into this deal, plus we got a USAC sanction for 2013, which will provide first-class insurance coverage for all drivers," Tobias Jr. said

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-05-14...-racer-raceway

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Sprint Week has become an event, much like the Chilli Bowl. The stands are full and the payout is minimal for the "take". There is no way the track owners are going to change Midget Week or Sprint Week. The biggest pay day of the year is not something to change. In reality USAC has about 9-10 cars that follow their series, but the perception is the lure! No different than the "Outlaws", you know the series with all the rules, but the perception of the series is solid.